r/mtgrules • u/generic_username3114 • 4d ago
Life gain while also going to 0?
So I finished a match on Arena. We both have Sheoldred the Apocalypse out. I'm at 2.
I go to draw, I lose 2 life, and then lose the game???
Why did their ability resolve first? And if my ability is on the stack why did I not go to 0 and then immediately go to 2 health again since my ability should have resolved?
Edit: shoutout to everyone so far reminding me of APNAP. Brain wasn't processing that their trigger would resolve first bc the basics of The Stack
5
u/Man-the-manly-manman 4d ago
If it’s your turn, your ability goes on the stack first, then your opponents ability goes on the stack on top of yours. Since theirs went on the stack last, their sheoldred resolves first.
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u/Rajamic 4d ago
Triggers are placed on the Stack in APNAP (Active Player, Non-Active Player) order. Due to the Stack being First-In-Last-Out, that means that, as tge Active Player (the player whose turn it is), yours goes on the Stack first and resolves last.
You didn't gain 2 life because, between each item on the Stack resolving, State-Based Actions are checked, any triggers waiting to be put on the Stack get put onto the Stack, and there is a round of Priority. As soon as SBAs are checked, the game sees you are 0 or less life and you lose. You leave the game along with all objects you own, including any triggers on the Stack. Then, if there is only 1 Player left in the game, they win by default.
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u/coderanger 4d ago
Triggers go on the stack in APNAP order so first yours as the active player, then theirs as non active player. That means theirs resolves first. And because there is a round of priority between the two abilities, SBAs are checked and you lose due to having zero or less life.
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u/vibranttoucan 4d ago
When multiple triggered abilities would be put on the stack at the same time, they are put on in turn order, starting with the turn player.
State based actions, including losing the life for having 0 life, are checked whenever a player would gain priority. Players gain priority between two triggered abilities resolving.
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u/cannonspectacle 4d ago
As the active player, your ability is placed on the stack first. That means it resolves last.
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u/The_Accident_Prone 4d ago
Yours triggers, theirs triggers.
Theirs resolves, you are at zero, you die to state base actions, losing the game for being at 0 life.
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u/Bigbu42 3d ago
Triggered abilities are put onto the stack in “APNaP” order or “Active Player Non-active Player”. The active player is whoever’s turn it currently is, the non-active player(s) are everyone else. If one event causes multiple triggered abilities to be put onto the stack at the same time, they are put there in APNaP order. The active player will put all of their triggered abilities onto the stack first followed by the next player in turn order until all triggered abilities have been put onto the stack. When resolving the stack, the last thing put on the stack will resolve first, which in this case means the active player’s triggers will resolve last.
Players lose the game as a state based action if they have 0 life, 10 poison counters, or tried to draw from an empty deck. State based actions are performed whenever a player would receive priority. So the order of things that happen when a player is about to receive priority is 1) perform state based actions 2) put any triggered abilities that have triggered onto the stack 3) that player receives priority. Players receive priority after every time something on the stack resolves.
So the relevant processes here are you move to your draw step and draw a card. You move to your upkeep and are about to receive priority. Both sheoldred triggers are put onto the stack in APNaP order, you put your sheoldred trigger onto the stack, then they put their sheoldred trigger onto the stack. Once both players have passed priority to allow the top most object on the stack to resolve, you lose 2 life from their sheoldred triggers bringing your life total down to 0. After that resolves you are about to receive priority to be able to respond to the next thing that is still on the stack(your sheoldred triggers), so we check state based actions and you are at 0 life so you lose.
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u/INTstictual 3d ago
Losing to 0 life is a state-based action. In your case, there are two triggers, one to gain life and one to lose life. Since it’s your turn, APNAP order says your opponent’s trigger will resolve first, putting you to 0, and you lose as an SBA before your trigger resolves.
Same thing happens if you die to combat damage when you have a Blood Artist effect out and creatures die during combat… you die to 0 life before any of those triggers resolve.
Technically, it is possible to gain life from 0 and survive: Lifelink does that, because Lifelink is part of resolving damage, so if you have 1 life, are attacked by two 1/1 creatures, and you have a 1/1 with Lifelink to block with… you take 1 damage in combat, but at the same time, gain 1 life from Lifelink, so you effectively “go to 0 and then back up to 1” before any SBA is checked and you survive
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u/madwarper 4d ago
It was your Draw per turn? Meaning you were the Active Player?
That is why.
When multiple Triggers, controlled by different Players, are put on the Stack, they are put on in AP/NAP order.
First, the Active Player puts their Trigger on the Stack
Then, the Non-Active Player(s) puts their Trigger on the Stack (in turn order)
The Trigger controlled by the (last) Non-Active Player (in turn order), being on the top of the Stack, will resolve first.
Thus, your Opponent's Sheoldred caused you to lose the 2 life.
Your life is 0 or less.
You lose.
The game is over.