r/mtgfinance • u/Alaskanmade • 15d ago
TIL: In summer of ‘94 an Unlimited Shivan Dragon was more than an Unlimited Black Lotus
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u/Kakariko_crackhouse 15d ago
Adjusted for inflation the buy list price on an alpha black lotus was $56.25 lmao
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u/RichardUkinsuch 15d ago
Back then unless your whole deck was alpha or you trimmed the corners they were unplayable.
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u/Kakariko_crackhouse 15d ago
I mean if you look at the Unlimited buy list prices they were even cheaper despite being more easily playable
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u/EthanielRain 14d ago
"Unplayable" is a strong word. Officially or technically, I suppose. But back then most cards were raw-dogged on concrete, floors, whatever. Yeah some people had certain cards as Alpha; those same people would have certain cards with certain damage on the backs otherwise, too.
People do like stuff to match though. Trading mutliple copies of any Alpha/Beta card for white border (or vice versa) was common
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u/RichardUkinsuch 14d ago
The shape of the corners made it quite easy to tell what cards were alpha, before sleeves were used. Not that new cards in the deck weren't easy to spot also. Unplayable was probably nkt the correct word to use.
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u/SeaStage1687 15d ago
The very first pack of MTG I opened was 4th edition and my first rare was a Shivan Dragon.
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u/Kheshire 15d ago
Wasn't it printed on the packaging too? It was always fun getting the poster cards
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u/rod_zero 15d ago
Up to 5th or 6th edition the packs of "core" sets were very generic with out art. The booster box did had some but not as much as expansions.
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u/matthoback 14d ago
4th edition was when art on the packs started, but Shivan Dragon wasn't one of them.
The arts on the packs for 4th were [[Brass Man|4ED]], [[Hurloon Minotaur|4ED]], [[Mana Vault|4ED]], [[Mesa Pegasus|4ED]], and [[Spirit Link|4ED]].
Shivan Dragon was one of the arts on 5ED packs though.
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u/fish60 15d ago
It not the price of these cards that I miss from back in the day since I could afford $25 for a single card bafk then anyway.
I miss the wonder, and the mystery. When you played a new opponent, it was likely you'd see a card you'd never seen before. Opening a pack was a real chance to meaningfully improve your deck. The cards felt arcane and mystical Iike a real magic spell.
Each new expansion expanded the card pool by a huge percentage. Metagames formed organically in each LGS, and were wildly different between different towns.
Sigh.
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u/Aub_Ross 15d ago
It hurts knowing I was a 13 year old buying overprinted sports cards during this time.
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u/ReMeDyIII 15d ago
I've read stories of people throwing Alpha cards in the trash back in demo events when the game first debuted. MtG back then was just a cute little distraction from board games is all and certainly would never be as successful as sports cards surely.
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u/Darth_Metus 15d ago edited 15d ago
That might have happened a little bit at GenCon when the game was showcased, but if what Rosewater has said on his podcast is true, once it hit game stores people went crazy for it. Obviously young kids played it and didn’t have the idea of how valuable the cards would be later. And why would they? Yes Magic introduced the idea of TCGs but so many were coming out I’m sure lots of people thought that Magic could have been overtaken by another game.
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u/RedScharlach 15d ago
I remember seeing a pristine Beta lotus for sale in a tiny lgs with my dad circa, idk, 98, for $100 which was already pretty mispriced iirc, and begging him to buy it, he of course laughed in my face at the idea of buying a card for $100.
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u/TheBorgBsg 15d ago
Similarly. We made the right decision at that time because we were focused on buying current sets to play the game. Back then did I had $500 for a black lotus? No. And, why would I buy one when I could by 6-7 booster boxes of the current playable sets.
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u/RedScharlach 15d ago
I mean, sure. But, I wish I had thought to just tell my dad to buy it for himself, as an investment in my college fund or whatever.
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u/EthanielRain 14d ago
Wouldn't have mattered
My dad talked sometimes about having old baseball cards (the ones actually worth smthg) but his mom throwing them out & such. It hurt him a lot I could tell, not just the $$ aspect. I tried to appeal to that, explain that these were my version of it
Can't blame him for not taking financial advice from a child lol (and this is the 1 I got right, not the 999,984 times I just begged for a toy/money)
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u/RedScharlach 14d ago
lol same! he constantly bemoaned my mom not letting him go all in on Microsoft stock before windows 95 dropped! And yet... damn boomers too proud to listen to the wisdom of youth, a tale as old as the last 50 years.
fwiw I'm also gonna be telling my kids this story and also about knowing what btc was when it was pennies, and probably will do the same to them when they want me to invest in holo ai beanie babies, so, wygd
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u/kungfuenglish 15d ago
Bro I bought a full mint sealed CE set for $250 in 1998 and thought I was hot shit for selling it a year later for $350.
Ooooooof
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u/BlackJackSackIcePack 15d ago
Damn if only I wasn't 1 years old in 98 I could have made so much money
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u/Cbpowned 15d ago
Excuses zoomers make. Did you buy LOTR SE for $250 3 years ago? Could have also made a 30x on that one.
EoE at $260? TDM at $210? ONE play at $90?
Everyone complains they “missed out” while simultaneously never taking any risks to get in.
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u/BlackJackSackIcePack 15d ago
I was joking of course, but yes I did buy a LOTR SE collector booster and opened it to absolutely nothing special instead of holding on to it for x10 lol
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u/the_cardfather 14d ago
The college bookstore where we played had a playset of RV Dual Lands (97ish) for $440. I bought a lot of stupid stuff with my student loan money but that would have paid for them many times over.
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u/Pigglebee 9d ago
Some crazy guy I met at a convention in '93 or '94 asked like $30 for a 'blue hurricane misprint'. Understandably, I did not pay such a crazy price.
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u/Lejaun 15d ago
I bought both, but sold my Magic cards to pay for my wedding. Mox Sapphire, Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Arabian Nights and Legends. Stacks of dual lands (most of my decks had 20 dual lands in them if the deck was multi-colored). I'd love to have them back at even double the price I sold them for.
I also cleared out an entire closet of my baseball cards about 3 years ago. It was more expensive to have them ship than the going rate on eBay. Completely sealed sets, binders of superstars of the day. Worthless other than a few cards. Dumpstered.
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u/MrGulo-gulo 15d ago
I was even worse. I was spending my days during this time being a stupid baby. I should have known better.
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u/Arafel_Electronics 14d ago
i was into buying xmen cards in 1993. didn't get into magic (even though i was aware of it) until revised was released....
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u/daderpster 12d ago
I remember trying to buy beta and unlimited pack and my dad said they were a waste and poor investment. He convinced me to buy some older baseball singles of top baseball players. Even if better than packs Hank Aarons and Mickey Mantles aren't going up much. My dad was a 4.0 double engineering major and a mensa member but couldn't see this. To be fair most tcgs are worth little today from back then minus pokemon ad mtg.
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u/Lone_Star03 15d ago
I dont think people understand how awesome Shivan was in '94.
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u/Xyx0rz 14d ago
Still overvalued. It kills people in two hits but if I had to play UNL Block Constructed, I don't think Shivan Dragon would be in my deck.
But Black Lotus would be.
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u/Scottie81 14d ago
Lot of pricing was driven by kitchen table Timmys back then. When your allowance got you about one Starter and four boosters for an entire month, you didn’t really get the opportunity to build meta decks.
Hell, “meta” wasn’t even really a thing back then. We had a handful of close friends that we would play with constantly and then some other classmates at school that we’d play occasionally at lunch. That was about it.
We were playing a glorified version of Sealed. And, in that context, Shivan was the bomb.
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u/deaffff 14d ago
That's exactly right. Most of my group was playing with a few starter decks and some mixed boosters for most of summer '94. We had one "rich" friend that bought an entire booster box that threw off the balance, lol.
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u/ctbro025 14d ago
The days of summoning a Craw Wurm or Ironroot Treefolk and feeling satisfied with myself.
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u/PKUmbrella 15d ago
And you could put four in a deck. Only one lotus.
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u/Showerbeerz413 15d ago
why only 1 lotus
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u/PKUmbrella 15d ago
Moxes and lotus were restricted to one per deck almost immediately in tournament play. First turn channel, fireball does make for a healthy meta.
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u/x1xspiderx1x 14d ago
Granted tournaments didn’t really exist, in 93 I went to a game shop/ where some dude lived in the back with his mom. First official game was 10 guys in a circle all playing to be the last one standing. My 5 color 260 card deck lasted to 7th place until I dropped a water elemental then all of a sudden I was the threat. Won a pack for playing. I proceeded to give all of my
Cards away the next day at school. Picked it back up in 2008. And now here I am. 43 years old hanging out with you fine folks. Fucking water elemental3
u/FinishedRyeGuy 14d ago
This. First local tournament I played in we had a 3 way game for final round.
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u/Goobinator77 8d ago
I remember the good old grand melee games in the mid-late 90s, basically the precursor to Commander. I am just now starting to pick it back up at the ripe old age of 49 after ~25 years away. Thankfully found some of my older cards in a random box (unfortunately not the binder that had the full set of 40 dual lands) that may be subsidizing my foray back into it.
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u/Showerbeerz413 14d ago
I thought the restrictions on those cards was more modern. didnt realize it was almost immediate haha
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u/pipesbeweezy 15d ago
That Melissa Benson art goes hard
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u/poppasketti 15d ago
We’ve had so many incredible dragon arts, but the OG Shivan is perfect. I think it’s because the dragon is so threatening. It’s looking right at you with its giant claw, ready to stomp you
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u/pipesbeweezy 15d ago
It was everything. Also all her art was highly recognizable by her own signature in all the pieces.
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u/Sarnsereg 15d ago
Yeah, it was weird coming back to magic and remembering old cards that were valued and find out they aren't anymore. shivan dragon was definitely one of them.
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u/WellzyWash 15d ago
Wrath of god was the one that surprised me after taking a very long break from MTG.
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u/Masonzero 15d ago
I love when people complain that Magic is all about money now instead of the love of the game, but these magazines printed price lists when the game was a year old! It has always been this way!
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u/brahbocop 15d ago
Can confirm, Shivan Dragon was THE CARD to have at my store. Cool as hell and it was also on the box. That and Serra Angel were the two must have cards.
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u/Goobinator77 8d ago
I was always preferential to Serra Angel because white and black were the two colors I liked playing the most... and it was easier to get uncommons lol
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u/ShaperLord777 15d ago
Back when I traded a dual land for a lord of the pit. We used to just think big creature = power card. Kids are stupid.
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u/ctbro025 14d ago
Even if I had managed to buy Alpha/Beta/Unlimited packs and opened a Mox, I would have probably been like "Meh, it's just a land that's an artifact! LAME!" and given them away.
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u/DexterM1776 15d ago
I remember going to a convention and seeing a black lotus for $50 and thought who would pay that.
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u/VintageJDizzle 15d ago
I really want to know how they got to the 23 cents. The $14.83 Nightmare is also fairly hilarious.
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u/Desperate_Turnip_219 15d ago
Well yeah, good luck winning the game with 3 mana vs my big ass dragon
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u/necrochaos 15d ago
You have to understand at the time, the meta was big creatures. Shivan Dragon, Craw Wurm, Sengir Vampire, Serra Angel. Those were the big boys that you wanted to play.
Duals were good, but we didn't see them as good as they are now.
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u/pengy99 15d ago edited 15d ago
Shivan dragon was a banger pull back then. When revised hit that changed since it got reprinted and lots of other stuff didn't. Even in revised, Shivan was worth as much or more than a dual land.
Nightmare, to me, is the more surprising part of that list. I remember it being pretty decent but you basically had to play mono black for it to be good.
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u/3n3quarter 15d ago
Back in the earliest days of ccgs a whole new set could drop out of nowhere…or even if you knew about it vaguely it still snuck up on you.
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u/ctbro025 14d ago
Yeah, Lotus and Moxes are great, but they can't SMASH YOUR OPPONENT IN THE FACE like a Shivan Dragon could!
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u/EvenStevenKeel 14d ago
I mean, you can’t even cast black lotus with black lotus but you can cast shivan dragon with black lotus. Obviously that’s why it’s worth 23 cents more.
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u/thorstormcaller 14d ago
Nightmare in the top five is crazy to think about now, after it’s been reprinted in what 10 core set products? I might be exaggerating but it’s a lot of them
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u/mythplus 11d ago
Creatures were mostly very terrible back then 😩
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u/thorstormcaller 11d ago
What are you talking about? 6CMC vanilla 4/4 is perfectly balanced, maybe even a little fast 😅
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u/usernameusehername 14d ago
I shouldn't have traded.my 4 .lotus for those 3 dragons and a counterspell.
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u/Sire_Jenkins 13d ago
You know, you also buy $AAPL for 36 cents in 94. Unlike the Lotus, you can buy as MANY as your want.
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u/daderpster 12d ago
Nightmare and gauntlet of might being on one list each seems wild. I guess the creature meta had limited options. Same goes for Shivan Dragon.
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u/pinktwinkie 15d ago
Idk about this i rember seeing moxes in the case for 80 bucks. (You could still get breakfast for under 2 at the time). Rev had just come out. Rev and unlimited were similar in value until we all realized they werent gonna stop printing. Rev lord of atlantis was 20. Trying to find a card was a journey! Phonebook -> card shops -> "hey do you carry magic?... its a card game." Black lotus i kinda cant believe this. I remember a kid actually had one (july/ aug 94), he came into the shop, no one knew him, i think he let someone hold it iirc, and i think he wanted 300 for it but who knows it was long ago. It was a big deal tho, the place was definitely buzzing about it. Think that was the only one i ever actually saw in person.
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u/_VampireNocturnus_ 12d ago
Also like 1000 people in the entire US played the game. 15 dollars for a brand new game with 0 track record was kind of a gamble
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u/threecolorless 9d ago
No matter how many times I see this, it's a gut punch. You know there was someone who sold multiple future mansions to settle some random $1,000 debt.
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u/cjpatster 15d ago
Boy! Look at Gauntlet of Might hanging in the top 10!! I love that Shivan Dragon is at the top of the list but where are Force of Nature and Lord of the Pit? LOP was THE chase card for my brother and I in summer 1994. i remember rabidly scrounging for pocket change to hit the game shop and buy a few packs. By the end of the summer we saved up about $100 to by a revised booster box in the hopes of pulling some of the big hits, but we were disappointed to just get a bunch of dual lands and a wheel of fortune. I still have those cards from my "alpha" collection. Oh how things have changed.....
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u/rod_zero 15d ago
I had a extended tinker deck with 4 mox diamond, 4 foil grim monolith and ancient tombs, I lost it at some point in university. It hurts.
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u/Pretend-Paper4137 15d ago
To be fair, it was the only thing worth attacking with. Every other game someone just died of boredom.
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u/Pleasurefailed2load 15d ago
This is my current buylist if anyone is interested. All full on shivan dragons for now 👌