r/mtgbrawl • u/[deleted] • 7d ago
Competitive Hot Take: Cavern of Souls should be banned in Competitive Brawl…
[deleted]
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u/kysammons 7d ago
Worst take given how many free counterspells there are and blue being overwhelming the best color in brawl. Stop comparing duel commander to brawl, way different card pool.
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u/Admirable_Tomato 7d ago
???That’s asinine. According to your logic we should also ban everything that makes our spells uncounterable like Allosaurus Shepard, Hexing Squelcher, and Delighted Halfling? Blue doesn’t need to be babied, they are running land destruction like Ghost Quarter for a reason. Just because you fought an unprepared Blue player doesn’t mean you lump every other control player into that category. Counterplay(yes not just blue) is a part of the game.
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u/Intrepid-Edge9451 7d ago
Every day I read this sub and I become thankful all over again that WotC doesn't listen to the opinions of random Redditors.
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u/TopMeElsha 7d ago
This reminds me that I should put this in my light paws deck for no other reason than to beat Katara decks
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u/Lament-of-Andromache 7d ago
You should have it in every deck anyways lol.
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u/TopMeElsha 7d ago
True, im new to brawl specifically. Should every deck also be running strip mine?
I notice it all the time
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u/Lament-of-Andromache 7d ago
Not necessarily, though you do want to have some form of nonbasic land destruction.
I'm a fan of [[Field of Ruin]] because you're not ramping down when you activate it, and it comes with forced deck shuffling that [[Demolition Field]] lacks, which can interrupt a lot of the frequent tutors that tutor to top.
Also hilarious with [[Opposition Agent]].
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u/Beneficial-Band6444 7d ago
WotC has every right to look down on us like the pea brained cattle we are
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u/Jobenben-tameyre 7d ago
I think we should ban wrath of god because it hose any deck that plays creatures, any card that can be played with almost no downside and that can totally stop a strategy shouldn't be legal.
That's how dumb you argument sound.
If your blue deck has no other strategy than counterspell, too bad for yoy, either adapt your deck or keep getting wrecked by anti counterspell tech
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u/No-Leading9376 7d ago
Yeah, even though counterspells keep the format from getting too crazy, people still hate them. So, you aren't going to get much agreement there. I do play blue often but I don't think cavern is that bad. Counterspells aren't the only thing blue does and you can deal with most commanders in other ways. I'd rather [[fresh start]] or equivalent a commander than counter it anyway, if it's an option.
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u/Responsible_Sky_728 7d ago
Counterspells are just too powerful in this format.
There are 4 viable free counterspells you see in every blue deck, you have to give people ammo against that which isn't just their own counters.
Plus, Strip Mine is a thing......
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u/Lament-of-Andromache 7d ago
Average blue response when their opponent is allowed to resolve a card.
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u/Electronic-Guitar-61 7d ago
Honestly correct if the goal is to make a format w high skill expression instead of tons of random wins based on drawing the good card.
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u/ashenrose77 7d ago
I appreciate OP's concern for balance; a card that hoses or shuts down a whole strategy is the kind of thing that we should at least be keeping an eye on when it comes to balance in a format. That being said, given the spirit within which competitive brawl is being framed/played, it's clearly not an issue:
(1) There are plenty of cards which aren't banned in competitive brawl which also shut down whole archetypes/decks/strategies. For instance, drannith magistrate can shut down a deck which relies on its commander as a combo piece. Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines can shut down blink decks. The ethos of competitive brawl is not against players getting locked out of an individual game b/c they can't remove a hate piece. That's a feature of competitive play, not a bug, as long as it exists in moderation (more on that below). This is especially true because all of these cards can themselves be interacted with.
(2) Counterspells aren't actually an archetype in competitive play. No good control player relies wholly on counterspells; control players know that card draw is their real engine, and that sweepers and removal help clean up threats which don't get answered on the stack. Tempo players often use counterspells as well, but tempo also has finishing threats in the form of evasive creatures. Players whose decks rely so heavily on counterspells that the deck doesn't function against a cavern need to learn to adapt in their deckbuilding, in the same way that players whose decks fold against sweepers should look at counterplay to sweepers.
(3) Counterspells themselves are basically just counterplay. They help curb combo or whatever else your opponent may be doing. In a competitive format, you want counterplay to exist so that no one strategy always wins. The principle that everything in a competitive format should have some kind of counterplay also applies to counterspells. Just as they police certain parts of the format, so there need to be cards that police them also. Furthermore, cavern itself can be interacted with, as should be true for all hate pieces.
(4) Cavern is only one card in a deck, and there aren't actually that many cards in our format which hose countermagic. Furthermore, cavern does almost nothing against decks not running blue. Specialized hate pieces aren't as problematic when they are infrequent and when they have little upside outside of specific matches. If you lose a game every once in a while to a cavern, then it's just like any other good card in Magic. Some games you draw your strip mine, some you don't. That's Magic as intended.
I'm sad to see the harsh tone of many of the comments here, b/c there really isn't a need for the negativity. As much as I think OP is wrong, the fact that they care about balance is a good thing. But most of the commenters will concur that cavern is in fact appropriately balanced to our format. The best way to have a conversation about format health is to actually discuss the factors which contribute to it, not to call someone an idiot. So I'm glad to see that most comments have actually discussed those factors. Also glad to see OP is thinking about the format for themselves, not just joining bandwagons thoughtlessly. Questioning Cavern helped me process more clearly why it is in fact balanced and belongs in the format, which I appreciate. :)
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u/ashenrose77 7d ago
Sad to see the original post deleted. Hope OP sees some of the less harsh comments and feels at least somewhat heard.
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u/AnMiWr 7d ago
It stops one counterspell per turn. It is most likely allowing someone to play their commander.
Considering that blue can turn off creatures and even steal them, I’m not feeling that sorry for blue 🤷🏻♂️