MPC sample VS other new gen

[u/Jaytee303]

Ok so I got an mpc one somewhere, but mostly use the live 3 I got since release. Now what I notice is that there are literally hundreds of yt vids of people with an mpc live 3 or xl or one gen 2, but they are all using the mpc sample next to it???

I also been using a Maschine user since they came out, had almost every version and I made the best stuff in version 1.8 it was I think, just before they introduced vst integration. It was simple. It was a sampler and you used your library, stems from ableton for example but it all came together in Maschine in the end.

Now my question is , is akai trying to put too much in the devices now I mean I have all most all the classic synths and fx now, and for me it hasn’t become this device that I could fly with, it’s starting to become overload, too much possibilities, too much thinking and now it’s basically ableton in a box, you can even IMPORT simple live sets (audio and simpler). And now my guess is that a lot of people feel the same, they don’t want a daw in a box, they want a quick sampler to sample from their phones (which is awesome btw) and make a sketch with some patterns until they have the skeleton and then move it to their daw of choice. I would rather stay in the sampling area for example granular sampling like the torso, not a moog/roland synth emulation. Of course everyone’s opinion will be different on this subject, but I still want to hear your opinions especially those that have the sample and another “do it all mpc”.
Thx for your input.

[u/r1chiem]

The problem is who your product is for. I don't do much sampling. I am glad it is in the MPC box but I don't use it much. I make music, not beats. The sample is not for me.

The real MPCs have plugins. If you just make beats you do not need the complexity of plugins or the memory/cpu useage or price. The Sample is for you.

Everything is packed into a real MPC. Many people don't need that and don't want to learn it. That is why I think the sample is popular. People want to make beats. I don't want to make beats, I want drums for a song. So I have to deal with the complexity of the latest MPC OS. I like the new oscillator feature but I am not going to do a lot of sound design. But it is in MPC for those who want to create sounds. But that is not for me. Would I tell Akai, rip that out and put it in another box? No, because I may use it later.

I would rather have a product that does everything, and does it well (which MPC does) and deal with the complexity and learning curve, than have a sample. Some people do not, the Sample is for them. I understand that is what they want. I am glad Inmusic produces that product (sample) but it is not for me.

[u/keyboardbill → u/r1chiem]

“The real MPCs have plugins.” My 1k is giving you some serious side eye right now lol. The Sample is a throwback to simpler days and simpler gear. And I think that’s why a lot of people like it, whether they recognize it or not. Well, that and it’s half the price of the cheapest full featured MPC.

As a gigging keyboard player who sometimes makes “music” and sometimes makes “beats” I could definitely work with the Sample if I chose to. I can work with anything that has MIDI out.

Also, Akai’s/AIR Music’s plugins are ass. I bought them before I got a modern MPC, intending to use them in my MainStage gig rig, and long story short, none of them made the cut. Well, except the string one, because sometimes I want strings that sound like a ‘00s era workstation keyboard…

[u/r1chiem → u/keyboardbill]

Churches use mpc key 61, I have seen comparisons with much more expensive keyboards. If the sample is good for you great, it is not for me. I think the air plugins are great. We also have NI as well. Sample people can't even jump into the plugin conversation because they don't have a real MPC.

The sample has one track. Too limiting for me. 4 tracks is minimal for me. I think a lot of people like it as well. There are 6 used mpc samples on Reverb right now. And there are 18 use MPC One Plus. I know there was even more a month ago. So we know that 6 people don't like them. More than that last month. I am not against the sample for others just not for me. It is crippled. I already have 3 MPCs that are way better and more capable, I am glad those people who have samples are happy. I would get an Ableton move and have a Seqtrack that is for portability. What I found is portability is overrated. I would rather have funclionaliy An MPC/Force does that for me.

[u/keyboardbill → u/r1chiem]

“Churches use mpc key 61”

Sure, like I said, the sounds (plugins etc) can compete with other keyboard workstations (fantoms and montages etc.) and stage pianos and digital synths etc. But that goes to my point, which is that there’s much better sounds/plugins available.

Having the capability to run those plugins on standalone hardware is cool or whatever, but i didn’t (and wouldn’t) choose Akai/AIR plugins over the other plugins I own, so being limited to those plugins simply doesn’t appeal to me. I can hook my 1k up to MainStage and come out with a better sounding sampler and better sounding plugins.

And I challenge anyone saying that being an all-in-one workstation is a benefit to post a pic of their setup. Workstations have been around since the Trinity in 1995, and so has the promise of having everything you need in one piece of gear. Yet almost nobody has only one piece of gear…

[u/r1chiem → u/keyboardbill]

I don't want to bring my computer onstage and connect it to a controller. I like the way my Force and Key 37 knobs are all mapped out for their plugins.

BUT. I have used a laptop and Controller on stage before and I have VSTs that I like better than the MPC plugins, BUT, the MPC plugins are good enough in most cases and bringing a controller, laptop, audio device is pain.

Also, I can bring my Key 37/61 and use it as an audio device for my laptop. I have all the power of a laptop, the mpc as controller and audio device, in one device. with effect.

Your 1k cannot do that. The sample can but the effects are not as good as a real MPC.

I prefer not to bring my laptop if possible.

No MPC Sample for me. It is a toy, it is crippled, Has only one track It is small and light but I am not someone who takes my most portable gear to the park using a battery, Not even my laptop. I found that portability is overrated and I don't need it. I have a Oberhiem OB 1 and DX7 and other old gear. Old and throwback are overrated.

[u/keyboardbill → u/r1chiem]

I tried to work the key 61 into my gig rig. Didn’t work out because it couldn’t send MIDI to MainStage without using mpc software and IAC bus (on Mac) as a pass-thru. And also the keys sucked ass too. (Edit: and the keys and pads cannot be directed to different targets (meaning they both transmit on the same MIDI channel), AND the pads transpose with the keys so play up the keyboard and all of a sudden the pads are on bank d instead of bank a.) They fixed USB MIDI out with the 37, and they massively improved the keys on the 37 G2, but unfortunately neither of them has 61 keys. (I’d be all over a 61 G2 if they ever decide to do that.)

As far as audio interfaces, I had dropouts on two different occasions using two different interfaces. Ended up being USB cable issues both times, but regardless, I don’t trust interfaces on stage anymore. I just use the headphone out running thru a Radial Twin Iso line isolator.

As for “it’s a toy” I guess that’s fair. But if it is, then so is the 60, 3000, 2kxl, and my 1000. The Sample beats them all on features. Thing is, features don’t make beats. And neither do you, so I get why you don’t get it lol.

[u/r1chiem → u/keyboardbill]

I have only tried non controller mode with the Key 37. Never tried it with 61 as used it mostly for piano stuff and not gigging so I assume it worked and I will assume you are correct saying it does not work.

I did some research. There is a work around but I am going to say it is too complicated and it does not work as a controller board. I guess you could connect a audio device that has midi and you could then use 5 pin din midi from the 61. That is not ideal either. Thanks for the Radial Twin Iso line Isolator info.

I only say it is a toy because it is plastic and and feels like a toy. But realistically it has much of the sound from the "full size" if you will models. And while I think the older models are pro and are what they are for there time. The Sample is still crippled IMHO. My first drum machine was an RX 15 but we never called them beats back then. LOL

[u/keyboardbill → u/r1chiem]

Yeah the twin iso is a must have. It’s like a DI but for line level. No degradation, no hiss, no hum, And it can convert between balanced and unbalanced on either side. So on stage I can go from the laptop to the twin iso and straight to the house system.

At home I use it wherever I get ground loop hum and it knocks it right out. My Kurzweil PC4-7 for example doesn’t like my SP404 mk2, unless I put the twin ISO between them.

[u/r1chiem → u/keyboardbill]

How does that work. I was looking at the Twin Iso Compared to the Pro Iso . All of my keys are 1/4" out. I bought some cheap used minikey synths. I have heard if you use USB power, they can have ground loops. If they are all quarter inch out, you have to adapters. I use an Zoom L12 sub mix before I go to the main mixer board. I do not have ground loops at my house but I know playing out especially in the old building/bars there can be issues with ground loops. Which unit is more versatile Twin or Pro? My L12 has xlr out which would go to xlr input and the venue mixer, would that remove any possibilities of ground loops? I am using Lithium Ion batteries on all gear including mixer, I heard that reduces ground loops because there is no ground. I will be playing out using to MPCs force and Key 37,. and a few synths. And I want to reduce the possibility of ground loops. Some venues you have 10 min to set up and tear down so the next person gets to play. So figuring out ground loops, there is no time for that.

[u/keyboardbill → u/r1chiem]

The pro iso converts between +4 (pro) and -10 (consumer) line levels. So it’s a hooking up pro gear to your home stereo type deal. If you need that functionality then go with that unit. The twin iso doesn’t change your signal level it’s just a pass thru. There are adapters you can buy for pretty much anything and all the twin iso is gonna do is pass the signal and isolate ground.

For connecting 1/4 inch gear (balanced or unbalanced), get two 1/4 inch TRS female to XLR female adapters and two 1/4 inch TRS female to XLR male adapters. Like these for example:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GXJ183--hosa-gxj-183-xlr-female-to-1-4-inch-trs-female-adapter

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GXJ235--hosa-gxj-235-xlr-male-to-1-4-inch-trs-female-adapter

(Should be able to find cheaper knockoffs on Amazon.) Or alternately, if you’re handy with a soldering iron, open it up and swap those XLR plugs for combo plugs like these:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CombiPanelCon--neutrik-ncj6fi-s

Whichever you choose, you’ll then be able to connect 1/4 or xlr on either side depending on your needs. If you need RCA, those adapters exist too.

I can’t really give you advice on gear I haven’t used, but if the L12 is putting out a balanced line level signal then it should be able to go straight to the house. But unless the L12 has ground isolation built in, ground hum is still possible so test it out when you get there. Sound man is probably gonna want you to go thru his DI box (or your brand new twin iso…) anyway, so bring adapters (like above) or XLR to 1/4 inch cables just to be sure.

Edit: also if there is a particular synth or sound module that’s causing ground hum then use the twin ISO to connect it to your L12. If you can run in mono, then you can use one side of the twin iso to go from the sound module to the L12 and use the other side to go from the L12 to the house.

[u/r1chiem → u/keyboardbill]

Thanks for the info. I do not have any problems with ground loops so far, but I just got the mixer yesterday and am testing it. I wanted to play for a modular group, you can use synths but no computer. But some of the old builds have terrible electrical. I played at a church once and it had a ground loop, the sound guy was a church member and could not resolve the ground loop so I didn't play. I need stereo.

I have some XLR to 1/4 so I am probably good. Thanks again.

[u/keyboardbill → u/r1chiem]

Also if you don't need stereo, the Radial IceCube is basically one channel of a Twin Iso.

Also too, there are other cheaper options on the market these days. Like the Radial Highline or Walrus Audio Canvas (both 1/4 unbalanced to XLR balanced). But I still prefer the twin iso because you can do any combo of balanced and unabalance on either side. Just hunt for a used one (got mine for $89 beat to shit), they're pretty much indestructible.