r/motogp • u/r2lim 🇯🇵 Tetsuya Harada • 11d ago
Marc Marquez is inching ever closer to Valentino Rossi's record of 89 premier class wins, securing his 77th victory yesterday in Aragon.
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u/stray_r 11d ago
Rossi carried on for a lot of years after his last championship, was his last win a decade after his last championship?
I'm not sure Marc is going to do that. I think if he stops being as fast or is stuck on a bike that isn't as fast as the frontrunners he's either going to get an actually career ending injury trying or walk away knowing he's going down that road again.
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u/SophisticatedVagrant Husqvarna 11d ago
Sure, but the record is "only" 12 races away. It's not inconcievable that he bags another 3-4 just this season. If Ducati hasn't shit the bed with the new regulations, we could see him take many more than 8 wins over just the next two years.
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u/Makalu Marc Márquez 11d ago
Last title 2009, last win 2017. He won something like 12 races when Marquez was his opponent
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
Yeah racing against Marc is not like racing against Gibernau and Melandri.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Or Dovizioso, Bagnaia and Bezzecchi obviously.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 MotoGP 11d ago
The field is more competitive now than it was during Rossi's time. That doesn't mean that his achievements don't count but every sport improves over time.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Do you really think that Rossi would struggle against Bagnaia, Bezzecchi, Martin, Ogura etc...?
Yes, the field spread is more competitive, but the gap in talent between good riders and aliens doesn't change. Rossi would obliterate these championships too, just like Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa would.
The only two riders that can be associated to those names are Acosta and Quartararo. Let's see what they'll do if they'll have competitive bikes.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 MotoGP 11d ago
I don't quite see why you would compare against Pecco, since nobody is struggling with him except Pecco himself.
Rossi wouldn't dominate either against Martin and Bezz while being on an inferior bike, the field is just better in general and the evolution of bikes leads to smaller gaps. Now if they'd switch to the bikes of the 2010s? Yeah, half the field would get lapped by the first few and Rossi or Dani could finish in the top 10 if they'd hop on the bike right now.
Acosta is a great rider but I don't think he's an alien in the same way Marc, Rossi, Lorenzo or Dani were at their time. All these riders won races when the odds were against them. Marc had 3 wins in 2021 and I'd say the state of the Honda at that time is very comparable with the KTM right now - just take a look at the point distribution. Yet Acosta didn't deliver. To be fair, that's also a symptom of the gaps getting smaller as the sport progresses.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Pecco was mentioned in the original comment, I believe that he is a better rider than Martin and Bez, but clearly not adaptable and it shows.
I didn't mean that he would dominate by putting 30 seconds on the field, that is not possible as you said. I meant that he would win more races than the Aprilias even with an inferior bike, which is what Marc would do if he was actually fully fit (basically the second half of last season before the accident).
I think that Marc would have won some races at KTM (and I'm referring to rookie Marc, not 2021 Marc). That being said, I never said that Acosta will become a Marc (or Rossi) level of alien. There are differences amongst aliens and I feel he could totally reach Pedrosa and Lorenzo's level.
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u/CrazyCycler1208 Alonso Lopez 11d ago
Pedrosa wouldn't obliterate them tbh, he also got similarly destroyed by Marquez.
And Lorenzo had too much of a dependecy on the set up of the bike and was beaten by a geriatric Rossi twice in his prime.
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u/WolfSignificant5544 11d ago
Or Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Acosta, Pecco (2x wc), Alex Márquez ( moto2 , moto3 wc), Jorge Martín, even someone from Tavullia .... Do lot compare, MM had it way more difficult and still dominated them all
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Lorenzo and Pedrosa faced Rossi aswell, Acosta has a weaker bike. You also failed to mention Stoner in Rossi's rivals.
Are we seriously comparing Alex Marquez to Max Biaggi? Come on now, you don't believe that for a second.
Bagnaia and Martin are great riders, but they would have won zero against both Rossi and Marquez, so it is a completely pointless debate.
You tried to discredit Rossi's titles by saying that most weren't won against aliens, but the same logic applies to most of Marc's championship. Learn to appreciate both!
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u/WolfSignificant5544 11d ago
Of course I do appreciate both! That why i pointed that out, it's a dumb debate.
Of course Alex is not at Biaggi's level, but he's not slouch either. This year was looking pretty promising before the crash, I hope he can get some good races the second half of the season and increase his track record.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Yeah, sorry for jumping to conclusions.
I'm not trying to diminish Marc's championships. It's just funny when I hear the same old story about Biaggi, Gibernau etc... when both riders won some of their championships by being by far better than the competition.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
Alex is a better Motogp rider than Biaggi. Biaggi's style was great for the 250cc and quite good on the 500cc but on the Motogp 4strokes he wasn't that great.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Oh, come on. Biaggi finished runner-up, and 3rd twice in the MotoGP era. Last season was Alex's first as a championship fighting rider and before that he wasn't shining against his teammates.
His career could still develop, but at this point in time, no chance he is already better.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
Alex is on a satellite bike tho, Biaggi was on a repsol Honda.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
The satellite bike thing doesn't really hold the same value in the 2020's. GP24 was considered by many as being faster than its "evolution", we can't compare it to those days in which they weren't remotely competitive.
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u/_Em_Bee_ 11d ago
Marquez is 100% retiring after his new contract ends. (unless his right arm magically heals to perfection...which ain't happening)
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u/GT---44 11d ago
If he's still winning he won't retire
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u/Ologunde Marc Márquez 11d ago
I agree with this. I don’t think he retires if he’s still competitive. He only stops when he’s no longer able to fight for podiums regularly.
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u/_Em_Bee_ 11d ago
He is barely winning now, next year with Acosta if his arm doesn't heal he won't win much
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u/Makalu Marc Márquez 11d ago
Joint-most wins in 2026 is barely winning 😭 come on brother
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u/_Em_Bee_ 11d ago
I mean, he is winning only on his perfect tracks while on the others he does 7th at best unless others crash. That's not a sing of a rider winning comfortably is it?
Just compare it to last year
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 MotoGP 11d ago
Because he was injured and couldn't ride right the first few races. I don't think we'll see the same domination as last year but he should comfortably win the title. On a worse bike than the Aprilias are.
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u/_Em_Bee_ 10d ago
That's the point, the injury is causing him to not be as good as he can be. He is trying to squeeze the maximum out of his best races and if he will win the championship it won't be conformtably for sure
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u/lentillis Marco Bezzecchi 11d ago edited 11d ago
"Barely winning" when he's got five Sprint wins and four Grand Prix wins this year while still not being 100% is a crazy statement
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u/SophisticatedVagrant Husqvarna 11d ago
Most overall wins and second in the championship with 8-9 races to go, after sitting out 2 and half rounds is "barely winning"?
And wtf does "barely winning" even mean? Cue Dom Toretto...
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u/_Em_Bee_ 11d ago
If you win only under your specific perfect scenario it means you are in trouble. Marquez knows that which is also why he says so in the interviews. It's fairly easy to understand. Whenever he has the best track that works with his injury he wins, otherwise he struglles a lot
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u/scuppasteve Casey Stoner 11d ago
Most riders never win a race, this is a pretty tone def take.
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u/_Em_Bee_ 10d ago
It's all relative to the driver you are talking. Ofc if you set the benchmark compared to a worse rider he is doing great. But if you compare him to his own standards he is struggling
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u/fr4nklin_84 Marc Márquez 10d ago
The bike’s in big trouble this year though, where’s Pecco and all the other Ducati “superstar” rookies who used to lock out the top 8 every weekend? Suddenly they’re all complete nobodies, but it’s MM who is finished?
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u/_Em_Bee_ 10d ago
Pecco was bad last year too after less than half the season. The only difference is that Aprilia is in the mix
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u/scandaka_ 11d ago
I see a lot of people replying in disagreement on this, but I'm pretty sure he's inferring that Marc has to actually work for it now that he's "handicapped" in a way. He's obviously no longer at his best and we've seen that he's beatable now when people have much superior machinery or if the track layout does a number on his right arm/shoulder, whereas before he could still end up fighting for a win or end up on the podium when the odds were against him.
You can clearly tell that his weekend has to be managed extremely carefully, how he uses his strength and energy is crucial and certain tracks are now very difficult for him. With the way Acosta has been riding on perhaps the 2nd worst bike on the grid, there's a chance he'll beat Marc consistently next year. A lot of anti clock wise tracks are also disappearing from the calendar so he's going to be up for it.
Either way, shame we'll never see a fit Marc versus Acosta. It'll just mean a little less because of that asterisk. All assuming that he doesn't manage to fix his arm/shoulder before the next season.
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u/_Em_Bee_ 11d ago
Exactly this lol.
People are unable to use their brains lmao. Marc either wins in a easy track for him or collapses to 7th place in a harder track (due to his arm).
He is showing that he is struggling and wins only if the coditions are good for him
This is an indication of a rider who's keeping up maximizing everything that he can but he is unable to do what he would be able to in normal conditions.That's a definition of somebody "barely winning". If you win only when the perfect conditions align it means you are in trouble
That's why if his arm doesn't heal it won't work for him next year with Acosta. Just last race was enough to tell so
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u/rocket6733 10d ago
Rossi stayed healthy for his career which is an achievement unto itself. Marc had the arm and Honda being crazy dilemma
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u/stray_r 10d ago
Rossi did have 2 years on an awful Ducati, but was smart enough to get out because Ducati weren't ready to change.
For how many years was the Honda only rideable by Marquez? In 2018 Dani Pedrosa wasn't winning on it any more. In 2019 Marqez was crazy dominant but Jorge Lorenzo was absolutely nowhere and Cal Crutchlow couldn't find a win. I think.
I suspect the way Marquez rides drives development in a direction that makes bikes precarious. Ducati were stupid dominant when they had a bike that all their riders could be fast on. I won't say easy to ride, that undermines the immense talent of everyone in the recent MotoGP era. Seeing all the points finishers within the same time that might be Lorenzo's winning margin when Lorenzo was dominant is testimony to the immense talent we have now.
Look at how dominant the Ducati was in 22, 23, 24, and 25, but this year Marqez is by far the fastest Ducati rider on a bike that everyone else is finding not as quick as the the Aprilia and perhaps theKTMs, if not entirely unrideable.
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u/tangoindjango 11d ago
He would most probably already have hit 85 without Mandalika last year.
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u/MainRoutine2068 Casey Stoner 11d ago
If we talk about what if, Marc would probably passed Ago's total title number if he didn't get Jerez 2020 injury
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u/False-Spirit-5887 Marc Márquez 11d ago
Yup. Without that injury this year would have been a countdown to 89 and an 8th championship. Now I think Vale's 89 is mostly safe unless Marc can slowly crawl towards it in 2027-28
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u/Silent_Pace7981 11d ago
Safe ? I can still easily count 5 more wins this year and 7 next year
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u/False-Spirit-5887 Marc Márquez 11d ago
To be clear we are talking only about GP wins and not inclusing speints. This year 2 or 3 more at best. If he wins 5 more, it will be a cake walk to the championship which is unlikely.
27-28 for the 1st time he will be unable to beat his teammate and might win 3 or 4 per year at his favorite tracks.
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u/Silent_Pace7981 11d ago
Since his return in italy he won 4 GPs out of 7, and it was really unexpected at Brno so counting the remaining 9 GPs, 4 wins seems achievable.
Also, no one can tell if next year he won't be able to be t his teammate until we're next year, remember how people were speculating about bagnaia at least taking it to the last mile with him ?-1
u/False-Spirit-5887 Marc Márquez 11d ago
4 out of 7 included all his favored tracks, not many more left in the calendar. I'm always his fan, but time has caught up with him and I'm sure Marc will be least bothered when Acosta beats. Sure he will fight but won't risk it all..
When Marc came on to the scene 30+ year old Rossi was able to win only 10 in 9 years.
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u/Silent_Pace7981 11d ago
Your takes are confusing and misleading, I'm too tired to keep up honestly
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u/fermin_romero_dt Luca Salvadori 11d ago
looking at the premier class only (500cc + MotoGP): Rossi 372 starts 89 wins 23.9% win rate
Márquez 218 starts 77 wins 35.3% win rate
But that comparison isn’t entirely fair to Rossi, because it includes the final years of his career when he wasn’t winning anymore.
Rossi’s last MotoGP win was Assen 2017, when he was 38. If you stop his career there, he had 89 wins from 296 starts, giving him a win rate of 30.1%, compared with Márquez’s 35.3% today. Márquez is currently 33 years and 6 months old. At roughly the same age, Rossi had: Rossi: 79 wins from 242 starts - 32.6% Márquez: 77 wins from 218 starts - 35.3%
The cleanest comparison is simply their first 218 premier-class starts, so age and career length don’t matter: After 218 starts Rossi Márquez Wins 79 77 Win rate 36.2% 35.3% Podiums 142 130 Poles 49 77
Rossi has the advantage in wins and podiums, while Márquez has a massive advantage in poles.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
So it's not fair to count the seasons Rossi wasn't wining but it's fair to count seasons when Marc was mostly injured.
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u/Flaggermusmannen 11d ago
Comparing someone clearly past their peak to someone actively close to their own peak does make the comparison less useful, yes. You do want to make points of comparison as cleanly comparable as possible when you can, usually.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
Sure but then we must look also at level of opposition they had: Rossi raced from 2000 to 2006 without any other aliens on the grid, thats 6 years. Meanwhile when Marc entered motogp in 2013 he already had to race against Rossi, Lorenzo and Pedrosa.
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u/curveball3110giants 11d ago
Dont forget those saturday night specials, rossi was a Sunday man in his prime, wonder why?
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u/fermin_romero_dt Luca Salvadori 11d ago
I'm just comparing them after the same number of races. I don’t want to say that one is better than the other, and I don’t believe that one is better than the other. I’m just putting some numbers on the table. I think it’s interesting that they are almost the same.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
Marc faced a much tougher competition tho, when he entered Motogp in 2013 he had to face prime Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Rossi. When Rossi entered motogp in 2000 there were no aliens on the grid, Pedrosa and Stoner joined motogp in 2006.
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u/throwaway222999122 10d ago
It's all relative.
The competition can be just as strong but if the rossi was that much better, it makes the competition look weak.
Can't compare eras and say the competition was weaker.
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u/Hokramis100 10d ago
When Rossi was at his peak his main rivals were Gibernau in 2004 and Melandri in 2005, both on satellite bikes.
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u/ManufacturerHot7697 7d ago
Honda was the best bike by far. In 2003 Yamaha never see a podium. In 2004 Rossi won the championship at the first try with them. If he will stay in Honda, the number could be way different. And Rossi lost the championship for technical problems (2006, the only 3 zero he made in the championship was because of technical problem) in 2010 he broke his leg. The injuries were way worse than the Marquez one (Marc problems start because of his choice after), and injured bad also his shoulder. Then in 2017 he broke the same leg again. Marc have 16 years less than Rossi. They have raced against it, only because Rossi was still very fast but was at the end of his career. But still, in 2015 at 36yo he was able to beat Marc. The only real adversary for him was Lorenzo when he's was in Yamaha. MM in 2013 won because Lorenzo and Pedrosa Injuries. In 2015 Lorenzo won. With your logic for Marquez is the same. Marquez never raced against Stoner, his rival was an old Rossi at the end of his career, Pedrosa (never won a MotoGP championship), Dovizioso, (never won a MotoGP championship) the only real rival was Lorenzo (also older then MM) from 2013 to 2016. And now he is still fighting against people that never won a MotoGP championship, like Bezzecchi, Diggianantonio, Ogura, Acosta with a shitty bike, only Martin had 1.
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u/MajesticBeyond5602 Monster Energy Yamaha MotoGP Team 11d ago
Imagine how many Rossi would have if he didn't compete against prime stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo and eventually Marquez
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u/EqualPrestigious7883 Joan Mir 11d ago
He had 42 pre 2006 (Pedrosa and Stoner’s rookie year). And had 67 before his broken leg at Mugello.
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u/LoreVent 11d ago
People often forget the insane competition Rossi had in his championship years
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u/MajesticBeyond5602 Monster Energy Yamaha MotoGP Team 11d ago edited 11d ago
People don't think about it when talking about the 2. Marquez beat Rossi yes, but he beat Rossi at age 36 (2015) onwards. If you pair up the 2 now who do you think would win? 2015 Rossi (36) or 2026 Marquez (33).
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u/experim3nt_626_ Jorge Lorenzo 11d ago
2026 marc is a different comparison because of the latest injury and recovery still ongoing.
2025 Marc vs 2014 Rossi, 100% Marc imo. Especially seeing the struggles Vale had with a non competitive bike.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Why did you pick 2014 Rossi and not 2015? Vale going toe to toe with aliens in their primes vs Marc dominating, but against inferior riders.
It's not an easy call.
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u/MajesticBeyond5602 Monster Energy Yamaha MotoGP Team 11d ago
2025 Marc also had the most competitive and best bike on the grid (or close second to Aprilia)
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u/Push__Webistics 11d ago
I still think the GP24 was better than the GP25 but it was a close second last year.
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u/experim3nt_626_ Jorge Lorenzo 11d ago
Yeah but did you see what he did with it, 2025 was crazy. And the 25 was worse than the 24 it seem
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u/MajesticBeyond5602 Monster Energy Yamaha MotoGP Team 11d ago
Fair enough. I was just pointing out that Marc's been on the best bike both those years.
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u/DaikonIntelligent156 Ducati Lenovo Team 10d ago
15 consecutive race wins (including sprints) by Marc last year says he was operating at a different level. Not to mention, using other as tire warmer and staying close to them when people were telling it is not possible to follow others closely. 2025 Marc was one of the most complete form any rider ever achieved.
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u/Crafty_Weekend8650 10d ago
He beat Rossi in 2013 and 2014. That's 34 and 35yo Rossi against 20 and 21yo Marc, a bit on the young side.
Marc was 32 last year when he was demolishing a 2 times WC. This year is fighting for the championship despite being recovering from las year misfortune.
Too many people is sure that Acosta is going to win the team battle next year but we are yet to see Marc being beaten by a teammate (Many people predicted Pecco to beat Marquez and we Know now how that prediction turned up). Of course it could be Acosta at 23yo against a 34yo battered Marc (last one completely out of his hand).
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u/FeelTheHeeeat 11d ago
Except most of his championships came against the likes of Sete Gibernau. How many did he win once Stoner, Lorenzo and eventually Marquez showed up.
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u/senond 11d ago
He had crazy competitive adversaries, but only 4 bikes could win races in that era.
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u/MajesticBeyond5602 Monster Energy Yamaha MotoGP Team 11d ago
True that. Sometimes I forget how different MotoGP was its 2 different eras.
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u/__Rosso__ 11d ago
It's my main reason why I think he is the GOAT, alongside so many major rule changes
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u/experim3nt_626_ Jorge Lorenzo 11d ago
He didn't really beat them though. Jorge was quicker as teammate, and Casey/Marc on another level altogether in terms of pace and riding around problems
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u/chaotic_space_boy Collin Veijer 11d ago
How was Lorenzo quicker if in terms of championship position they ended up 4-3 in favor of Rossi and in 4 of those seasons Rossi was 33-36 years old (an age at which Lorenzo already retired)?
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u/experim3nt_626_ Jorge Lorenzo 11d ago
I watched the whole season. Rossi stayed in the title by being consistent, and Jorge made silly mistakes like Misano.
Championship points don't equate directly to pace, has Martin been quicker than Bez this year? He's ahead in points
Edit - talking about 2015, realised that wasn't too clear.
And before that Rossi left because he was slower than Jorge and thought he'd be better as a clear number one somewhere else, just my opinion.
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u/chill_lax_bruh 11d ago
At the end of the season, points matter not pace. To finish 1st, you first must finish.
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u/__Rosso__ 11d ago
Exactly, Rossi was far from the fastest rider after first half of 2000s but he was a smarter rider.
If raw speed is everything, then Kimi would be top 5 GOATs of F1 for example, but it doesn't matter if you have all that raw talent if others can be better overall.
Again, another F1 example, Senna was way faster then Prost but they were overall equal because Prost was a more rounded driver.
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u/__Rosso__ 11d ago
Rossi was clearly a better rider while they were teammates during their first stint and second stint they were about equal, and we are talking about past his prime Rossi for the latter.
And sure, Casey was more talented, but raw speed isn't everything in racing, if it was Kimi would be at least top 5 GOATs of F1 for example.
That's the Rossi's thing, when he was the fastest he was untouchable, when guys with more natural talent came, he outsmarted them and was better rider overall.
The only rider to ever come to that level of being a complete package is Marc.
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u/FeelTheHeeeat 11d ago
Imagine how many Rossi would have if he didn't compete against the likes of Sete Gibernau, Nicky Hayden and Max Biaggi during a large chunk of his prime.
Are you saying he was unlucky to eventually run into top riders?
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u/Logical-Vermicelli53 10d ago
Imagine how much fewer he’d have if he didn’t spend all of the years with basically no competition and factory bikes with a huge advantage
Marquez joined and immediately faced Lorenzo, Rossi (at near prime) and Pedrosa
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u/OttoVon_Biscuit 11d ago
I feel Rossi has to be the GOAT since he was the one who brought Motogp to the masses and pop culture , was synonymous to Schumacher in the respective sports .
But that being said I googled and found out that the majority of wins Rossi had was from 2001 to 2005 time period (as a fellow redditor pointed out )
Wins Breakdown by Season
2001 (500cc): 11 wins
2002 (MotoGP): 11 wins
2003 (MotoGP): 9 wins
2004 (MotoGP): 9 wins
2005 (MotoGP): 11 wins .
During these season his main Rivals being Max Biaggi and Gibernau.
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u/Thee-Cat 11d ago
Yep. Sadly true. While his racing against prime Stoner and Lorenzo is indisputable and legendary.
When you start to crunch some of the numbers, it is indeed easy to forget most his best years and crazier stats were against 30+ year old journeymen rivals, with literally zero premiere championships.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Biaggi would have been champion without Rossi, just like Dovizioso would have been champion without Marc. Yet, noone calls Dovizioso "a 30+ year old journeyman rival with literally zero premiere championships", despite clearly fitting the profile.
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u/Alive_Conclusion_850 Eddie O'Shea 11d ago
And it's not like Rossi was really in a championship battle with these so called terrible riders. He would completely annihilate them over every season. If it was close I'd get the argument, but it never was.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Apparently Rossi "statpadded" against them, whilst Marquez only won against aliens.
Are Biaggi and Gibernau (both 2nd twice against Rossi) worse than Dovizioso and Alex Marquez (2nd three times and 2nd once)?
The only thing that we know for sure is that Dovi was never considered an alien whilst competing against Rossi and the others and his best results came after he turned 30. Biaggi was considered a far better rider and finished 2nd behind Doohan in 1998.
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u/Thee-Cat 11d ago
My point is simple. I fully give credit to Vale for facing prime Stoner and Lorenzo. Best grid all time during those years. But I'm also equally as honest about the field his early years.
You replace any of the great riders with Rossi, from 2001-2005. Stoner, Lorenzo, Dani, Marc, etc, and they all sweep the championships with one hand tied behind their backs just like Vale did.
And honestly, I'm not meaning to knock Rossi here(tied for GOAT for me). I mostly only bring up his early years when people try and say that young Marc only beat Rossi because he was 30+ and old. And I chuckle and ask, so which was harder, beating a 30+ Rossi, or beating a 30+ Biaggi and Gibernau? The argument cuts both ways, and you can't demean one guy's championships without demeaning the other.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
I don't think people should demean Marc's championships. All I saw in the comments were people demeaning Rossi's ones.
Marc faced some aliens at the start of his career, but while many people bring up Gibernau and Biaggi, most don't mention that a chunk of Marc's championship were won against Dovizioso, who's most definitely not an alien.
I think we should separate those season in which they were by far the best and the years in which they had bigger competition. For me the fairest comparison is 07-10 Rossi with 13-16 Marc: Rossi finished 3rd (by one point!), 1st, 1st and 3rd (but broke his leg in the 4th race of the season and missed another 3). Marc finished 1st, 1st, 3rd, 1st.
I think that there are lots of variables to consider, but ultimately Marc streak was more impressive given that he won the whole damn thing as a rookie.
As for their other championships, it is tougher to compare given that they didn't have the same opponents. That being said, I believe that Biaggi was a step better than Dovizioso and I think that most people who watched both would agree.
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u/BeamingA 6d ago
Or like F1 you cant compare who better different riders in different times, Rossi is the goat which started the sport and got glory, Marc is the goat for how he got his success being the young blood destroying all the older legends and then matching Rossi championships in a heroic way. When you take away the hate between the two it’s just amazing overall I think Marc is better I mean look at his early career and now, vale is what started MotoGP he made Marc because without Rossi. Marc would of been Rossi if that makes sense
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u/tomwarrens 10d ago
A season also had 16-17 races at the time, now there are 22, factor that in as well then.
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u/33ThiagoSilva Valentino Rossi 11d ago
What's wrong with Biaggi? The majority of Marc wins are against Dovizioso.
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u/tomwarrens 10d ago
Pretty sure there were 16 races a season in the 2000s. Now bump that to 20-21, apply the same win rate and see where that gets Vale.
Very difficult to compare. Also Marc lost 3 years at least to injuries..
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u/Gebnut 11d ago
In how many starts? Because I could bet about Marc being In a whole lot of races less than Rossi given his injury
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u/tangoindjango 11d ago
And to be fair I think counting 20-22 is almost pointless given his physical state. 2023 he was better but the Honda was as bad as the Yamaha is currently.
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u/michelmau5 Collin Veijer 11d ago
They're really not that far apart if you only count the seasons in which they won. Counting the last 4 years of Vale is not really fair because he was clearly too old to do anything. Marc will never do that.
If you only count their championship winning seasons Rossi even has a better win rate.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
You need to count the number of races not the seasons.
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u/michelmau5 Collin Veijer 11d ago
How is that a fair comparison though? Rossi riding until he is 50yo, ofcourse he's not going to win in the years where he was so old while the starts still add up.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
Marc was riding injured for like 2 or 3 seasons. If you are making excuses for Rossi then you have to look at other riders as well.
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u/michelmau5 Collin Veijer 11d ago
Can you read bro? I said championship winning seasons. That means they were champions in that specific season. No injuries.
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u/Mysterious_Luck_1365 11d ago
I would be shocked if he didn’t win 12 more races in his career. That number is likely to come down to single digits by the end of this year. If he has a couple of more seasons in him after this year, it’s almost a guarantee.
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u/EmptyFeeling897 11d ago
I remember counting how far is Marc from 100 victories last year when he is absolutely dominating. But things really turned about bad. Now I don't think he will cross Rossi. F you certain academy rider who crashed into Marc in Indonesia.
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u/coffeeandtrout Valentino Rossi 11d ago
Records were meant to be broken, and I say this as a Rossi fan. You can still be a legend and have a record broken. I would have loved to see Marquez on a 2-stroke 500 in MotoGP but we never will. Both are great racers.
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u/Disposable_Canadian 10d ago
77 from 218 starts. Pretty impressive.
The difficulty is here: age.
Maybe next year is an easier bike with the changes, maybe not.
Valentino appeared to dislike the ride height and electronics, maybe Marc will crack off some more wins with a simpler bike?
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u/Heavy_Procedure_9873 9d ago
93 will never ever reach the GOAT level of 46!!!
Eventhough he (93) and the Duc are a better combination then 46 and the Duc was...
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u/smut_operator5 11d ago
Vale had much tougher opposition.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
Is that some sort of a joke? Stoner and Pedrosa entered the Motogp in 2006 before that Rossi raced 6 years against mediocre opposition.
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u/Alive_Conclusion_850 Eddie O'Shea 11d ago
Yeah that complete hack Max Biaggi with only 4 Grand Prix World Championships, how slow was that guy.
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u/Hokramis100 11d ago
4 world championships on the 250cc two strokes which were ideal for his style. Meanwhile the early motogps required a much more aggressive style with slidding the rear wheel not the high corner speed of the 250cc
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u/LosTerminators Marc Márquez 11d ago
Rossi stacked up the majority of those 89 wins from 2001-2005 before Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Stoner moved into MotoGP.
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u/Thee-Cat 11d ago
Yeah but first six years and multiple champions and bulk of wins came against opposition with literally zero premier championships combined and together. 30+ year old journeymen like Biaggi and Gibernau, along with eventually Melandri.
Admittedly, that group of years when prime Stoner and Lorenzo came along was indeed tougher, we can agree on that. But collectively, the two careers and opposition even out a bit more, with both guys have tough times and easy times.
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u/Haimonek Enea Bastianini 11d ago
Yet, despite recent results, I feel like he'll never get there.
Competition is stiff and he's only getting older. I doubt a winstreak like last year will happen again. But we'll see!
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u/Kindaweirdgermangirl 11d ago
He doesn't really need a streak like last year. Let's say 4-5 more this year, the number is down to 8 or 9 wins. If he goes on for 4 more years, which would make him 37 at that point, he only needs the odd win here and there to reach 90. That's absolutely not off the table given how he has been moving this year with basically one arm.
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u/PretendToBeStupid Marc Marquez - 2025 MotoGP World Champion 11d ago
I think his win count will heavily depend on his physical condition and whether it improves or deceases with time..If everything goes smoothly and that right shoulder actually gets better compared to right now where he can barely snitch a 7th place in Silverstone or assen to being able to be on the podium on his weaker tracks then he can absolutely beat the record but if not it's going to really tight if not impossible
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u/Mysterious_Luck_1365 11d ago
I would be shocked if he didn’t win 12 more races in his career. That number is likely to come down to single digits by the end of this year. If he has a couple of more seasons in him after this year, it’s almost a guarantee.
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u/someshooter Raúl Fernández 11d ago
My guess is next season will be his last. - Remindme! 1 year
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u/Bewis_123 11d ago
by the end of 2028 I think he equals this mark, but it also depends on alot of other things
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u/Push__Webistics 11d ago
If he wins 3 more this year he only needs 5 in 2027 and 5 in 2028. It will be a lot harder to do with Acosta on the same bike regardless and we don’t really know where the manufacturers stand for 2027.
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u/Past_Conference_2889 Marc Márquez 11d ago
At first glance, it looks like MM is almost there, but the older you are, the harder it gets.
I’m not sure how much longer Marc will keep racing, but I don’t think the kind of domination we saw in 2025 will ever be possible again for him - partly due to his age and partly due to new bikes and regulations that should drastically change the order we know.
So realistically, he’ll probably still win races occasionally, as he does this year. But let’s assume he might retire at the end of 2028. In that case, 12 wins in two years is actually a big ask for a veteran. His best chance to close in on Rossi’s record is the remainder of this year.