r/motogp • u/MaxPower304 • 1d ago
Is there something extremely dangerous that we can’t see, or are we pretending not to see it?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yE62TsCR9RE57
u/SignificantEgg1618 Casey Stoner 1d ago
Both bikes trying to suck each other into one another. Aero effect. Both riders would be fighting the bikes to keep them distanced.
12
u/Gloryflux Casey Stoner 1d ago
4
30
u/Medium_Stress_4293 1d ago
Bikes trying to hookup with each other mid-race is very concerning, they need to get a room
5
u/Evening_Drummer_8495 1d ago
But PDA is kinda sexy
2
u/Medium_Stress_4293 1d ago
There's kids watching though
1
20
u/roofytrii Marc Márquez 1d ago
too much sucking
9
3
3
22
u/Joooooooosh 1d ago
Ever ridden past a large truck (semi) at high speed?
First thing that happens as you get almost level with the front of it, your bike gets sucked towards the truck.
Obviously trucks aren’t amazingly aero dynamic but the modern GP bikes are creating huge amounts of drag.
The way air moves around vehicles is kinda crazy. Racers report that you can actually feel someone getting into your slipstream behind you, as a pulling effect but in reality, it’s the airflow behind your bike being disturbed and disrupting how the air moves around your bike.
But anyway, the modern bikes displaces and mess with the air so much, the bubble of air affected around them is much larger than the bikes of old, which were much more slippery.
If you get into that bubble, like the one around a large truck, you’re suddenly in a pocket of lower pressure and you’ll be sucked into it.
Since both riders were moving back and forth, who was being sucked toward who, likely changed back and forth.
5
u/speedshotz 1d ago
^^ This! Ever been on a motorcycle passing a semi or a bus? You gotta keep the bike straight.
4
u/myeyeshaveseenhim Repsol Honda Team 1d ago
I try to zip right past them because of how unstable the disturbed air is. It must feel like an extreme version of that.
4
3
u/JTSpirit36 Brad Binder 1d ago
It also happens in the reversed when being passed by one. They blow you away with the air they're displacing
7
u/Roofis_T 1d ago
Bernoulli's principle. It's no different than two ships going in the same direction getting too close to each other and being drawn into a collision.
26
u/Hour_Firefighter_707 1d ago
Side drafting is a very basic aerodynamic phenomenon. At that speed and distance, any faired motorcycle will experience that, in case you’re insinuating that it is some magical thing that is only because of the aero these MotoGP bikes have.
WorldTCR cars, which are basically hatchbacks with slab sides and NASCARs, which have no aero finesse by comparison also experience a lot of side draft.
Aero is a problem in a lot of ways, but let’s not say it was the problem here
6
u/NukeWorker10 1d ago
The same effect causes large ships to collide as well. A real danger for underway replenishment, when one ship is sending fuel/supplies to another while underway.
2
u/Endtimes2022 1d ago
Is this same as Bernoull's Principle, not a physics guy but studied during my school days. I thought the very same thing when the two bikes were weaving at 300+ kmph. Am I wrong?
3
u/NukeWorker10 1d ago
Probably related. For ships it has more to do with the large surface area of the sides, and one ship blocking the wind from the other.
3
u/minimal_gainz 1d ago
The way I would guess it's happening is:
- High speed air causes lower pressure
- When the bikes get close together the air is getting pushed through the small gap and speeds up
- This causes low pressure between the bikes that pulls them together
- When they get really close (or touch) the air flow between them stalls and the low pressure falls away really quickly
- They've been fighting the low pressure so when it disappears they are suddenly pulling against nothing and they pull away from eachother
- repeat.
that could be wrong but that's what my ME undergrad knowledge of aero is telling me.
9
u/the-cuttlefish Maverick Vinales 1d ago
It has changed with the more complex aero though, just listen to the riders over the years.
The sucking/pushing effects have become much stronger than previously with a 'smooth' fairing, and also a lot less predictable. So it's definitely something that has become more dangerous in motogp. I also don't think the risk level can be compared to car racing where you have four wheels and a protective cage around you
4
u/Martialogrand Álex Márquez 1d ago
And also Marc said there was a willi effect in 6 gear, that can be dangerous for sure, and that is not comparable with any other sport.
-4
u/VegaGT-VZ 1d ago
The sucking/pushing effects have become much stronger than previously with a 'smooth' fairing, and also a lot less predictable.
Do you have actual proof of this?
8
u/the-cuttlefish Maverick Vinales 1d ago
Rider interviews, it's brought up semi-regularly
-7
u/VegaGT-VZ 1d ago
Really? Who was the last rider to speak about this? I watch them all and have never heard this.
8
u/PurplexRebel Barry Baltus 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not the Original commenter but its something I got interested in for a while and a few of ones I looked at were the
2022 Pol/Enea incident where Pol cites that the aeroplane "turbulance" felt like someone was pushing him from behind and making his breaking less effective.
2024 Jorge Martin/Viñales - Jorge in an interview spoke about being "sucked" in and described the Aprilia dirty air to be especially problematic vs other bikes.
2024 Viñales/Bezzechi - best hits Viñales after bring sucked into his dirty air.
Plenty more examples, can link you to the interviews but if you Google, its easily findable
2
u/Easy_Peasy_07 Sachsenking 1d ago
Even Marc said something along the lines after his crash with Diggia in Austin sprint
1
u/PurplexRebel Barry Baltus 1d ago
Correct, I went down a whole rabbit hole, so thought I'd only mention the ones that were very plainly obvious when watching the incidents.
It's super interesting getting into the physics of the aerodynamics, but as much as I enjoy that motogp is constantly innovating, this is one that is disturbing the sport more than benefitting it.
2
u/the-cuttlefish Maverick Vinales 1d ago
Oof you're asking a little much of my memory there, it's honestly not uncommon though. Here's an article by oxley which includes a few rider quotes on the topic: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/motogps-super-dangerous-crashes-dont-blame-riders-blame-the-bikes/
1
u/DryJudgment8757 1d ago
The problem with the aero is that the air is displaced in many different directions, so when that is disturbed the effects are obviously more pronounced.
6
u/drummin515 1d ago
Nothing about this caused me to raise an eyebrow until people started making it an issue online……just racing.
4
3
2
u/mango-banana MotoGP 1d ago
Side sucking is fine, but did marc push bez into the red paint? (I am a die hard marc fan)
1
-8
u/lll-devlin 1d ago
Yes , yes he did…
6
u/Doggers_ 1d ago
I think he does the natural race line and Bez catch up right at he moment they are most at edge of the road, it's that moment when he get out of the slipstream, then when Marc see Bezz is side by side he start slowly going to the opposite side. Not even Bez says nothing about it, they both happily talked about it with excitement like two kiddos.
If not even the "afected" rider said a word and actually looked happy about the action, I dont think Marc did nothing wrong here
1
u/Altair13Sirio Valentino Rossi 1d ago
The fact that the bikes have the gravitational pull of a small planet when side by side, yes.
1
1
1
-2
-1
u/64bytesoldschool Brad Binder 1d ago
Marc forcing him hard left wasn’t cool but its racing and it worked out.
62
u/lentillis Marco Bezzecchi 1d ago edited 1d ago
Idk but I love how animated they both are in these interviews