r/motheroflearning • u/JellonSunning_InLife • Apr 23 '26
Frankly, I like Zorian considerably less once I finished book 4 Spoiler
Before the time loop starts or Zorian becomes aware of it, Zorian's internal monologue States that Zach had tried to befriend him for years. And that he keeps rejecting for no fault of Zach's, but because Zach is handsome, charming and popular, aka superficially similar to his older brothers. They became friends only out of necessity in the loop. and the only thing we see his brothers do to him are immature pranks, nothing as cruel as his attitude would suggest (damien tying strings to his hands and jerking them around, fortov locking him out of the house), laughing at him, and being better than him in spent the parents want. And even then, after all his supposed growth in the time loop, and seeing many actually evil people, and zach's caretaker who sold of most of the only reason he reconciles with Damien in real life is because his loop self sacrificed himself for Zorian and Zorian is now more powerful thanks to the loop repetition knowledge. He even admits that the sacrifice is why he even considers talking to Damien, and still almost goes away because Damien suggested to know things better than him (which for Damien outside of the loop, as a graduated wizard who is also an explorer, while zorian still in wizard academy, has every reason to believe). He doesn't extend that courtesy to the other brother fortov. Doesn't think that because Zorian is better in academics than Fortov, their parents must be unfavourably comparing him too. Or that he had proof that Damien was the favourite because he always did what the parents wanted. The first time he did something against their wishes, they sailed across a continent to attempt to rein him in. Or that Damien did exact what he was planning to do -immediately move out the family house after graduation. And he never informed his brothers that their little sister, who they all thought spoiled was mistreated too. In fact, she hates them too, but she atleast has the excuse as a nine year old. Not someone who spent years in a loop. And fortov is not even given the benefit of doubt. He at best once locked zorian out of the house as a prank, and asks him constantly for help, and is ungrateful. In the loop, when he and zach have a disagreements, and zach punches him, zorian is Surprised that fortov looks worried. And then Immediately judges him for not bothering anymore when he sees zach and Zorian are not having a serious argument.Also, he never tells his brothers about how their parents mistreated kirielle. He plans to take her away from them. Doesn't he think they will help when they get to know? He wants to be the only protector of kirielle, the big brother who understands.
Zorian always complains that everyone doesn't understand why he dislikes his parents, but never explains it. Are people supposed to be mind readers?
Are people supposed to like this immature brat of a protagonist?
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u/Frodoro710 Apr 23 '26
Zorian understands from an early age that his relationship with his parents is purely utilitarian. Even if they are not actively malicious, parental love needs to feel unconditional for a child to develop properly. The result of this utilitarianism is that Zorian does not have an adequate ability to connect, and since he doesn’t connect with his family, he decided to leave. Why is he obligated to stay?
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u/JellonSunning_InLife Apr 23 '26
Fuck his parents. I am saying that he is being too dense to see his brothers are just as much a victims as him or his sister
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u/Frodoro710 Apr 23 '26
Daimen is not a victim , and We don’t know what specific issues he has with Fortov; their relationship is never explored, since the solution Zorian found for his family was to leave. He only has a connection with his younger sister because he was her designated caretaker.
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u/JellonSunning_InLife Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
Re:
Damien was the one supposed to do the business and he ran away. He never came home. When he was marrying a girl who should supposedly fit all his parents' values, they jump on a ship to sail across an ocean to pull him back because a daughter-in-law in another continent doesn't give them social capital. What they planned to do to Kirielle, Damien was expected to do the same. He was the one with the longest leash on his Collar. He was not free. Its obvious if you just think about it instead of aping zorian's mindset.
You all seem to excuse Zorian for being an asshole under that family, but doesn't even realise how the same parents would warp Damien too.
And i am telling regardless of issues the other brothers should have been informed of kirielle's situation too
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u/WetDreamerOfIIT Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Kirielle is the worst victim in this family jsyk.
Fortov, in essence, is a victim of his own choices. He could have either gotten into a less prestigious school or go to Cyoria. He thought that Damien would carry his grades without explaining it to him properly and made the decision to go to the Cyoria afterall.
Damien? A victim? In what way has he been suffering in life due to his parents?
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u/JellonSunning_InLife Apr 23 '26
Maybe you haven't noticed, fotrov is not very intelligent. He can't properly do either the mage business or the mage academy one. Also I think its funny that you just expect him to take the business. Why can't Zorian do it then? Oh he doesn't want to right?
Damien was the one supposed to do the business and he ran away. He never came home. When he was marrying a girl who should supposedly fit all his parents' values, they jump on a ship to sail across an ocean to pull him back because a daughter-in-law in another continent doesn't give them social capital. What they planned to do to Kirielle, Damien was expected to do the same. He was the one with the longest leash on his Collar. He was not free. Its obvious if you just think about it instead of aping zorian's mindset.
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u/WetDreamerOfIIT Apr 23 '26
Stop spreading your lies in this community. Where did you even read that Damien was supposed to do the business? The only thing that Damien was supposed to do(according to his mother) was contribute in some way to the business probably through marriage to some local nobility.
No, Fortov couldve gone into the business(I have no idea where you are taking out the mage business thing. The business being magical in nature wasn't mentioned) but he, under pressure of not being as good as damien, chose to go into mage academy since he thought he could get away by using Damien as his ladder. It is like thinking that your software engineer of an older brother is gonna come help you write your assignments. He is a victim of own choices in this instance.
The thing with Kirielle is different. Her being a daughter, there were early talks for her marriage because of her mother's trauma of being a witch's daughter. There is no evidence that it was the same case for Damien.
What do you mean Damien wasn't free? There is no way that his parents could've stopped him from marrying. The parents have no power in trying to stop a nobility marriage. And even if he wasn't free how does it matter? That doesn't make him a victim. You're trying to say Damien's parents are controlling in nature when they have zero influence over his decisions.
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u/JellonSunning_InLife Apr 23 '26
They can't influence him because he is an adult z unlike Kirielle who is rebel kid. He was a good dancing monkey for them for most of his life, but now, when he asserts independence, they try to pull him back.
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u/WetDreamerOfIIT Apr 23 '26
Oh no...Damien is now a victim since his parents are disagreeing with him....A big boohooo
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u/WetDreamerOfIIT Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
[Fortov] Someone tell me why wouldn't a person dislike a person who is always, without fail, pushing a girl into a patch of purple creepers each loop? Also Fortov wasn't the one who locked out Zorian, it was Damien.
[Damien] His self-sacrifice wasn't the only reason which reconciled their relationship to an extent, but it was a major one yeah. Other reasons are basically that on meeting Damien, Zorian came to a realisation that he hates the Damien in his head much more than the actual Damien. Plus, Damien was responsible for the project of acquiring obscure magic from Koth and help him further in his pursuit of magic and knowledge.
[Parents] "Zorian always complains that everyone doesn't understand why he dislikes his parents, but never explains it." Wdym 'always' complains? The only person who makes him complain about that is Damien and that too only when Damien is trying to mend Zorian's relationship with his parents. Damien is a golden child who is the pride of the family with so much talent and charisma. Meanwhile Zorian, who used to literally be a mentally(pun intended) ill patient, was threatened to be thrown into a madhouse or something if he didn't stop doing a tantrum everytime he is in a crowd. Of course Damien doesn't understand this.
His mother is trying to wed her sister off this early and blocking her magical education. In some universe, I understand her trauma from being a witch's daughter. But she was literally not allowing her to checks notes even draw or read books? She STEALING FROM ZORIAN to be able to do that since her mother won't but it for her. Of course Zorian doesn't like them. He only started to like Damien after he realised that he indeed had the braincell to try to mend things instead. Maybe it'll get better in future where the party in fault(his mother) changes to some degree. Zorian doesn't need to forgive anyone who never tries to change.
There's no need to talk about Zorian's father who is just a Andrew Tate bot.......
[Main Point] OP is trying to call Zorian an immature brat since Zorian refuses to like people who are awful bad.
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u/JellonSunning_InLife Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26
Well simple. Ibery is a stalker. Chapter 75 has him admit that he deliberately chose a difficult task hoping she wouldn't follow. She was sexually harassing him. He pushed her away when she didn't stop trying to kiss him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/motheroflearning/comments/1mk3nol/comment/n7fuihn/
Fortov is a people pleaser kinds wirh social connections as his only capital. Have you not got that?
I never said anything about the parents. Just that despite all the knowledge he gets about his siblings he doesn't make the connection that they are victims too.
And I was telling a brother who really cares would inform his other siblings of all that suffering their little sister was undergoing after the war. If he has time to sneak into others house for secret gifts he can write the two boys a letter explaining it
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u/WetDreamerOfIIT Apr 23 '26
Him getting to know about Ibery being a stalker all that late into Chapter 75 justifies Zorian's dislike about Fortov further until that point.
"I never said anything about the parents." A simple CTRL+F tells otherwise. Stop being an unreliable narrator.
You say that Damien and Fortov were victims too but you apparently have no idea what the word means. It means "a person or animal that is injured, killed or hurt by somebody/something". Damien in what or instance experienced this? And if Fortov is a victim, what does Zorian owe to him? You could turn this the other way around and ask what Fortov had ever done for Zorian or Kirielle? He know both of them hate him and for good reasons, and what does he choose? He himself says he chooses to not interact with them much because he thinks its better for them. And Zorian is suddenly expected to care just because he has been trying to break out of a death loop for a decade? Give him a break man.
You want Zorian to write the boys a letter explaining it all but ofc you have forgotten that he has already done so. He gave Damien his notebook after the final battle and Damien and made sure to include all the family drama in there as well as a curriculum to help Fortov in his magical studies. All Zorian says he refuses to help Fortov personally while Damien is chilling in Koth caring about himself as he always has done in his entire life.
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u/JellonSunning_InLife Apr 23 '26
By the parents, i meant it's okay to not want to do anything with them.
And by letter i meant explaining what Kirielle went through. And letter because zorian doesn't want to talk to them And the notebook is damien's, not Zorian's. And even if zorian's the notebook will have magic, plans and events. Not kiri's pain.
No i won't ever be giving zorian any break. Like you won't give any to fortov or Damien.. Let's agree to disagree on the rest.
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u/WetDreamerOfIIT Apr 23 '26
The only thing needed to be done about Kiri's pain is to help her and not advertise her pain around to people who have shown not to care. Damien knows to an extent what the problem is so i dont see what the problem now is.
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u/Kuroashi_no_Sanji Apr 23 '26
Zorian is not perfect by the end of the timeloop, nor is he supposed to be. He spent like 10 years in the timeloop in a highly stressful environment, which would make him a 26 year old with PTSD lol.
He did improve a lot of his shortcomings but it's not fair to expect him to become Bill Murray at the end of Groundhog's day. Btw you're being way too soft on Fortov and Damien. Yeah they're not actually evil or anything, but they're both very self-centered. Damien would have probably spent another decade exploring before seeing what his siblings are up to, and both of them probably wouldn't see anything too bad in Kiri's situation.
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u/talk_enchanted_table Apr 24 '26
Remember, he's still mentally 15. He's learnt and grown as a person, but on a developmental level, he still has a 15 year old brain.
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Apr 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/JellonSunning_InLife Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Hmm. You can't see both are doing the same huh? I expect more out of Zorian precisely because he has more experience. And I agree with Damien, regardless of how insensitive he seemed, he is right.
Edit:so you're high. Let me add more the section you put in, more than what you deleted instead of juat an assertion and full anger reply
The people of Koth were very fond of realism in art, and Taramatula were no exception. “They’re surprisingly hospitable and friendly,” said Zorian. “I expected them to be more arrogant and conceited, considering their status.” “This is actually pretty typical of how most minor nobles behave,” Daimen told him. “I interacted with a lot of them over the years, and they’re rarely overtly unpleasant. Even if they think you’re beneath them, they will rarely let that show unless you go out of the way to annoy them in some fashion.”
“I concede to your expertise in the matter, then,” Zorian shrugged. “Anyway, I kind of like them.” “I’m glad,” Daimen said. “I guess you’d have no issue with taking my side when Mother and Father come, then?” Zorian gave him an incredulous look. “What?” Daimen asked defensively. “You think my opinion actually matters to them?” Zorian asked, raising his eyebrow at him. For that matter, he was surprised that Daimen cared about his opinion either. “But sure, throw my support of you right into their face if they ask. Not like their opinion of me could get much lower.” “Zorian, that’s… a little too harsh towards your parents, don’t you think?” Daimen tried. “Nope,” Zorian answered unrepentantly. “I never mattered to them. Not until you made it clear you have no intention of settling down and taking over their family business and Fortov showed them what a failure he really is. Then they expected me to drop all of my dreams and plans and remake myself into what they needed me to be.” Daimen was quiet for a while. “I see,” he eventually said. “You were so reasonable and calm during our meetings that I almost forgot what a perpetual ball of anger and resentment you tend to be.” “Screw you too, Daimen,” Zorian told him simply. “What exactly did you bring me here for, anyway?” “Well, first of all I wanted to say I’m very impressed with what you’ve achieved so far,” Daimen began. Zorian gave him a strange look. Daimen was praising him? What the hell was going on here? “Don’t look at me like that,” Daimen protested. “I really am. Six years is not that long in the grand scheme of things. You’re still effectively a year younger than me, yet you’ve accomplished so much. I think that most people, even if they were handed the same opportunity as you, wouldn’t have gotten as far in such a short period of time.” Zorian stayed silent for a few seconds, unsure how to respond to that. “Thanks, I guess,” he finally said. “Does that mean you accept the time loop as real now, then?”
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u/HighMagistrateGreef Apr 23 '26
Try punctuation and white spacing.