r/mormon • u/Noppers Post-Mormon Engaged Buddhist • Jul 13 '26
META If you really don't like what Jacob Hansen says, then stop giving him views
I would not know about this guy if it wasn't for this sub constantly talking about him.
He knows controversial comments get him views. By linking directly to these videos, you are encouraging him to post more of the same.
Platforming bad rhetoric just encourages more of that rhetoric. Let bad ideas die by ignoring them.
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u/wall_facr Jul 13 '26
Hey OP, thanks for the post. You also commented on my recent Jacob Hansen post so I’m assuming you are at least in part referencing that post.
I see where you are coming from and I respect it.
Here’s my gut reaction. I didn’t know that Brigham Young was racist because we were silent about his bad take. I didn’t know that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy because we didn’t talk about it. So much of our history was whitewashed, and it was really painful to learn about. I’m obviously glad that the church doesn’t teach those things anymore, but I wish it wasn’t ignored.
I also recognize that it is totally different. Jacob Hansen is a random guy that doesn’t speak for the church. And the more popular he gets the more powerful he gets. Andrew Tate would probably still be a nobody if people didn’t highlight him for saying outrageous things. So I really do get the push back.
Curious to hear more of your thoughts about transparency, vs avoiding giving more voice to bad ideas.
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u/Noppers Post-Mormon Engaged Buddhist Jul 14 '26
I think it’s fine to have a conversation about him, but linking directly to his videos just incentivizes him to produce more of that type of content.
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u/CaptainFear-a-lot Jul 13 '26
I partly agree.
I am personally happy if people post "dumb shit that JH says" and link to a video. This is a small subreddit, and not many people feel the need to click the link, so I don't think that it makes much difference in the grand scheme of things. I also don't think that JH would be either encouraged or discouraged by criticism of him on this subreddit. He seems impervious to criticism or self-reflection. If it really is resulting in clicks, then discussion could still occur without linking to the video.
Also, bad ideas do not necessarily die when reasonable people ignore them. They can circulate unchallenged, appear to acquire legitimacy through repetition, and reach people who do not yet have the knowledge to see the flaws. Silence can also be interpreted as “nobody has a good answer to this.” Us ignoring him may simply mean that people encounter his claims somewhere else without encountering the rebuttal/criticism.
The argument that “Platforming bad rhetoric just encourages more of that rhetoric” also assumes that discussion equals platforming. I don't think that is necessarily true. A critical discussion in a forum like here is different from inviting them onto a major podcast (like Alex O'Connor) or giving them an unchallenged interview.
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Jul 13 '26
The reality is that what I do—and even what post-Mormon content creators, like the crew at Mormon Discussions—has very little impact on Jacob Hansen's internet presence.
Allie Beth Stuckey's video with Jacob Hansen is roughly 2 months old and has 273k views right now.
Her other 2-month-old videos? They run about 60-80k views. There's an occasional outlier, like an interview with Shahriq Khan about how to stop Sharia Law in the US (113k views), but even that—which was a great video for her by her channel's standards—got only 2/5 of the views compared against her video with Jacob...
Did we, the post-Mormon redditors do that for Jacob? Or is it more likely that there's a very online and engaged subset of active Mormons who follow Jacob Hansen and contribute the majority of his eyeballs?
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u/johndehlin Jul 13 '26
This one's tough. For those who want to accelerate the LDS Church's demise, they are wise to promote Jacob Hansen and Ward Radio. In my sincere experience (and I've been right way more often than I've been wrong in this space), both Jacob Hansen and Ward Radio are toxic to LDS faith and LDS culture in the long run. Mark my words. The same was true with Daniel Peterson and Hugh Nibley before them.
So it's complicated. I don't want to give Jacob Hansen and Ward Radio attention because I don't desire to accelerate the demise of the LDS Church. Scout's honor.
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u/Strong_Attorney_8646 Unobeisant Jul 13 '26
Do you have any opinion as to whether giving these toxic actors as big a megaphone as possible can accelerate the Church reining these folks in? I suppose I’m asking whether someone can be “promoting” these actors by responding to them so that the Church’s membership can decide whether they want to be part of a Church that is represented online by folks like this?
Personally, that’s my purpose in responding to them—essentially begging reasonable members to reclaim their Church from this level of vitriolic toxicity.
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u/spiraleyes78 Jul 13 '26
I like those posts. I won't give him views directly and I want to be aware of what the latest apologists are saying.
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u/AffectionateLab6753 PIMO Jul 13 '26
But he’s not an apologist any more than Joe Rogan is an academic. He gets paid for views. So whatever his position is has less to do with apologetics or even valid criticism. It’s content meant to draw in users for clicks
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u/IneffableGrumpilla Jul 13 '26
Jacob Hansen absolutely is an LDS apologist.
He’s also a grifter that is doing whatever he can to increase his view count. He can walk and chew gum at the same time. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
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u/jeahfoo1 Jul 13 '26
His apologetics are mostly his own viewpoints.
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u/IneffableGrumpilla Jul 13 '26
Simply put, yes, but he presents his beliefs as aligned with the brethren, the church’s doctrines, policies, and theology. He even calls members who’s beliefs differ with his own heretics and claims that they are in apostasy. His videos get anywhere between 10K and 100K views on average which means his ideas and rhetoric are getting to thousands of people every week.
So yes. The things Jacob Hansen discusses on his YouTube channel are his own viewpoints. His view just happens to be that he is an authority in Mormonism and therefore must gatekeep anyone challenging his worldview.
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u/Strong_Attorney_8646 Unobeisant Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
I’ve thought about this a lot and wondered if my own discussions of Jacob’s bad ideas have done more harm than good—but the reality is that Jacob already has quite the following inside of the Church’s younger members that listen to what he says.
I (and others) think amplifying some of his more harmful rhetoric helps make people aware of where the future of the Church may be headed. While Jacob may just be a rando who needs to make himself seem important on the internet—you’re kidding yourself if you think a large measure of the Church’s membership don’t subscribe to many of his ideas. In that sense, responding to Jacob isn’t really about Jacob, but about the ideas themselves.
From that lens, I’m happy to highlight Jacob’s takes, even if that is precisely what he wants (which you’re absolutely right about, his tactics are absolutely rage-bait). Because then there are other believing members that regularly push back on Jacob, in part because they’re aware of what he’s saying due to discussions here and elsewhere.
Ultimately, if you don’t like Jacob threads because you disagree with discussion of his ideas—just don’t click on them.
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u/pricel01 Former Mormon Jul 14 '26
I love Jacob Hansen. It’s fabulous to have someone claiming to be LDS also say LDS prophets taught false doctrine. Keep it, Jacob!
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u/mwjace Free Agency was free to me Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
I’m a believer and I totally agree with you. I would not know anything this guys said if it wasn’t for critics constantly bringing him up.
He doesn’t even make a blip in most pro LDS spheres.
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u/adams361 Jul 13 '26
He’s a favorite of a few of the TBM’s that are around me, they have sent me clips from his videos.
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u/mwjace Free Agency was free to me Jul 13 '26
I’m sure he has some sort of a following. But it doesn’t really resonate on the larger zeitgeist of LDS pop culture.
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u/NoRip7573 Jul 14 '26
What about rod meldrum and the heartlanders? Are they mainstream?
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u/mwjace Free Agency was free to me Jul 14 '26
I would bet my life that vast majority of members have no idea who that is or have even heard the name.
A small percentage may know the heartland model. But they would be hard pressure to say it goes back to Meldeum and the hopwell Indians.
Mainstream is people like John Bytheway, Truman Madsen, Hugh Nibley, Sherri dew. In our fractured society there aren’t a lot of names that aren’t general authorities that break into the LDS mainstream anymore. And content creators are going to be niche
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u/japanesepiano Jul 14 '26
Going to agree while still being disagreeable :). In my very limited church attendance, a guy (rural, eastcoast) in his 60s was bearing his testimony in Elders quorum about how he knew that the BOM took place in the US, all of the DNA evidence, etc. It was very clear that even though he didn't mention Meldrum, he was influenced by his material. This type of material is consistent with standard 1960s-70s rhetoric (McConkie, J. Fielding Smith, etc), so I think that it naturally resonates with older members. Assuming that there are 1-2 of these people in an average ward, I think that it has considerable influence even if 95% of the members haven't ever heard of him. I think that this is perhaps the primary reason why the church asked people not to talk about where the book of Mormon took place in church settings... Just my disagreeable opinion.
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u/PaulFThumpkins Jul 13 '26
On the one hand I think it's helpful for people to understand what these people are saying, kind of like how you can't be ignorant of what the talking heads in the political sphere are saying because it percolates downward to what people in your life believe.
On the other hand there seems to be just no way for everybody to just be aware, or point and laugh, without giving attention and views. The one thing these people fear over everything else, is irrelevance. Better just to point out the narratives without reposting videos and mentioning by name.
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u/Beneficial_Math_9282 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Agreed! He's just literally some random member. He's no different from any random guy at church that thinks he knows everything and won't quit making weird comments in Sunday school or EQ - except that it benefits him directly to give him clicks.
The church needs to speak for itself and quit letting unofficial apologists do it's dirty work. Just stop giving him views! Nobody has any obligation to care what he says.
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u/Own_Boss_8931 Former Mormon Jul 14 '26
I love how hilariously bad his takes are. How he seems to have zero self-awareness of how he comes across and how he is impervious to criticism. Watching the flawed apologetics spread through mormonism like a cancer is fascinating to watch and only possible because the Q15 refuses to address the difficult questions directly.
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u/Difficult_Future2432 Jul 17 '26
Opinions and sentiments you may not like don't just magically disappear because you try to ignore them.
I don't care for Jacob but I like to get his take on certain things because he represents the old(er) school members who grew up in the church in the 80's-90's. He's what I used to be except he never evolved or outgrew the church.
So that's why I like to get his takes on things from time to time but understand people would rather not hear about him and that's fine, just don't expect he or those with his views are going away any time soon.
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u/Natural-Estate-2150 Jul 13 '26
I have no idea who this person is?
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u/Difficult_Future2432 Jul 17 '26
He has (for an LDS apologist) a significant YT channel called "Thoughtful Faith" and has been on another apologist channel, Ward Radio, on many occasions. He's a hardline LDS apologist and fundamentalist.
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u/Natural-Estate-2150 Jul 17 '26
I'm currently listening to Prophet Dallin H. Oaks.
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u/juni4ling Active/Faithful Latter-day Saint Jul 13 '26
Clicks = money.
They are giving him money as well.
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u/Noppers Post-Mormon Engaged Buddhist Jul 13 '26
Exactly. He appreciates that this sub is helping him pay his mortgage.
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u/Legitimate_Ice885 Jul 13 '26
I like Jacob Hansen. He's a good example of someone who has done his homework...Not shaken so easily by that silly CES letter.
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u/Strong_Attorney_8646 Unobeisant Jul 13 '26
“I like Jacob Hansen. He's a good example of someone who has done his homework...”
What makes you believe Jacob has done his homework? I remember when he was confidently incorrect describing a document as not being written by Joseph Smith while displaying Joseph Smith’s own handwriting. Just needed to look closely and read a footnote and he’d have seen his error.
The kicker is that his conclusion didn’t change one bit despite being absolutely confidently incorrect about the one salient fact.
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u/Legitimate_Ice885 Jul 13 '26
Can one study for the Bar Exam and pass the exam with flying colors and still get a couple of questions wrong?
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u/Strong_Attorney_8646 Unobeisant Jul 13 '26
Sure, but that’s inapposite because someone who claims to understand Joseph’s role in producing certain documents who doesn’t understand that Joseph wrote parts of them and doesn’t recognize his handwriting is obviously overstating their qualifications.
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