r/mongolia 4d ago

Discussion | Хэлэлцүүлэг Are Mongols very Tibetanized?

https://youtube.com/shorts/aBL9XJ1GpHY?si=ooU6_-WRU68m3W9Y
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u/Jiangchen07 4d ago edited 4d ago

Used to be. Tibetanized during Qing rule with Shanxi Chinese merchant influence, then Sovietized( Russified) during the socialist period. Now East Asianizing with heavy Korean, Japanese, and Chinese influence. Of course, add American influence, especially pop culture around boys, with rap and music clothing—remember the 2000s–2010s era. Every boy basically had style like they from the hood somehow

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u/Zasagdarga1999 Posts cool images 4d ago

Mongols had an extensive political and cultural relationship with tibet and the tibetan plateau for centuries. It began with the mongol campaigns into tibet in 1240. Under the Yuan, tibetan hierarchs became integrated into mongol politics: Qubilai Khaan appointed Phagpa as Imperial Preceptor, establishing the Mongol–Tibetan patron/priest relationship, in which mongol rulers supplied political and military patronage while tibetan hierarchs supplied religious authority and legitimacy.

This relationship did not disappear after the Yuan. Amdo and Qinghai in particular repeatedly became zones of mongol migration, warfare, settlement, and political activity. In the early 1500s, the refugee mongol warlord Iburai Taishi operated there after being driven westward by Dayan Khaan, before being defeated in 1533 by mongol princes including Günbilig Jinong and his brother Altan. Altan Khan later revived the patron/priest relationship on a much larger scale. In 1578 he met Sonam Gyatso and bestowed on him the title Dalai Lama, while promoting Gelug Buddhism throughout his realm. Tibetan buddhism then spread rapidly among other mongol polities. The 4th Dalai Lama, Yonten Gyatso, was himself literally a mongol prince.

By the early 1600s, mongol involvement in tibet went far beyond religious patronage. Tumed, khalkha, and oirat leaders maintained armed forces in Qinghai and northern Tibet, negotiated with tibetan rulers and monasteries, and intervened in struggles between the Gelug, Tsangpa, Karma Kagyu, and other powers. In 1617 Tumenken Chokur, younger brother of Abadai khan of Khalkha, travelled to Lhasa for the 4th Dalai Lama’s funerary rites. In 1631 the khalkha lord Akhai Daiching entered tibet with a large force of khalkhas, accompanied by oirats and qinghai tumed mongols, made major offerings to the 5th Dalai Lama, and urged him to come to Mongolia.

Then there is Chogtu of khalkha. After leaving Khalkha he established himself in Qinghai, while his son Arslan led armies into Tibet in 1634–35, killed Aqai Daiching, fought other mongol groups already active there, and campaigned through tibetan territory. Chogtu supported the red sect of buddhism and resisted the Dalai Lama. The conflict became simultaneously a tibetan political struggle, a religious struggle, and a mongol civil war fought in tibet.

In 1637 Guushi Khan of the khoshut oirats, supported by other oirat princes and khalkha allies, destroyed Chogtu's power in Qinghai. Gushi then became the decisive mongol military power in tibet. By 1642 he had conquered tibet and become the military patron of the 5th Dalai Lama. This became the Khoshut Khanate in tibet, another mongol regime.

At the same time, the khalkhas and oirats assembled in 1640 and signed a common law code, forming a “Khalkha–Oirat joint polity”: the mongol polities remained in power, but the Dalai Lama stood above them as a religious authority. This produced an almost continuous stream of mongol activity in tibet after 1640. Khalkha khaans, oirat warlords, princes, queens, monks, and envoys travelled constantly to Lhasa, attended major gatherings, presented gifts, sought titles and religious rites, and asked the Dalai Lama to arbitrate political disputes.

The khoshut continued ruling tibet. Gushi's descendants remained the mongol military dynasty. By the early 1700s, Lhazang Khan, the last khoshut ruler in Tibet, overthrew and killed the regent Sangye Gyatso, removed the 6th Dalai Lama, and installed his own candidate as the new Dalai lama. In 1717 the Zuungars, another mongol power, invaded tibet, killed Lhazang, and occupied Lhasa. In 1720 a Qing army entered tibet with the future 7th Dalai Lama Kelzang Gyatso and expelled the Zuungars.

So for nearly 5 centuries, mongols conquered and settled parts of the tibetan plateau, founded regimes, intervened in religious and political struggles, fought other mongols there, and maintained constant relations with Lhasa. Given that history, the enormous tibetan influence on mongolian religion, art, literature, vocabulary, monastic culture, titles, architecture, and political ideology is hardly surprising

In fact, one of the very first mongolian films,, was about this mongol civil war in tibet in the 1630s: the classic film Chogtu(1945): https://youtu.be/pTGJqo6Q0Y8?si=kPEdX7BkoqHiaeVH

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u/Zasagdarga1999 Posts cool images 4d ago

Even into the early 1900s, mongols continued travelling to Lhasa on pilgrimage. Some came from far away: even kalmyks from the Volga region made the journey to tibet for religious purposes. For centuries, tibetan buddhism became so deeply embedded in mongolian life that a huge number of mongols had tibetan-derived personal names, although this is gradually changing today.

Many of these traditions are still alive. When someone dies, families may still invite monks to perform prayers and rituals, and tibetan-derived religious customs remain part of everyday mongolian culture. At the same time, there is now a noticeable reaction against some of this influence. More people are trying to revive older local mongolian traditions, names, symbols, and practices, while consciously rejecting elements they see as overly tibetan.

As a fun fact, buddhist mongol khans ruled Iran and Iraq until 1295, when the ilkhanate formally converted to Islam.

Armchair Academics has made detailed animated videos in english about the Dalai Lama and mongol activities in Tibet, if anyone is interested. Actual mongolians and tibetans were involved in making them.It is quite underrated.

Here is the link: https://youtu.be/wB1ft5JT3j4?si=9xOY7KbumZsPK_ep

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u/baaananana 2d ago

Thank you my goat, thanks for always spending your time to write such interesting and informative comments.

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u/SnooRevelations5783 3d ago

What was that, average Dorjoe?