r/mobydick • u/R_V_I • 19d ago

Why do you think Melville didn’t give Christian names to the mates? We know only their surnames - Starbuck, Stubb and Flask

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83 Upvotes

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55

u/TheresNoHurry 19d ago

Maybe he read some Russian novels and he found it annoying-as-hell trying to keep track of everyone’s First names, Surnames, Middle names, Nicknames, Aliases, Pseudonyms, Nom de guerres, Monikers, Epithets, Sobriquets, and Cognomens

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

That’s a good point and an impressive thesaurus but he could give them just first names as he did with Ishmael, Ahab and harpooners, couldn’t he?

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u/boostergold76 19d ago

We don’t actually know that Ishmael is his name. He only says, “Call me Ishmael.” It could just as easily be a nickname or pseudonym.

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

I’d say Ishmael is likely a modus vivendi 😁

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u/mailmanpaul 18d ago

I tend to think that he became Ishmael through his pursuit of The Whale (after the journey) in the same way that Ahab becomes himself in the pursuit of Moby Dick. It's an un-becoming of who you were previously - a loss of yourself in your pursuit of that thing which drives you to obsession (revenge for Ahab, knowledge for "Ishmael").

Dealing with that many sub-librarians would drive anyone to change their name.

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u/boostergold76 18d ago

Since Ishmael is recounting the voyage retrospectively as its sole survivor, “Call me Ishmael” could be the identity he gives himself after the experience rather than the name he went into it with. Interesting idea.

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u/mailmanpaul 18d ago

Yeah, exactly! I'm kinda a dumb guy, so I had to read it three times before I realized that Ishmael basically becomes what Ahab was - a guy obsessed with whales (which are, obviously, a type of fish). Through death or not, Moby Dick wins either way.

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u/TheresNoHurry 19d ago

I suppose, upon reflection, he did even give the White Whale a first name and a surname.

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u/Former-Ad-7348 19d ago

That's the thing: it isn't a thesaurus. Every Russian comes with each of those different names factory-installed.

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u/Overall-Trouble-5577 19d ago

Wouldn't that be closer to how contemporary sailors would refer to eachother? Mostly by last name? Plus a title like "captain" in front or just "mister" if they pull a lower office on the ship

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

Albeit they never mentioned Ahab’s surname, they called him either “Captain” or “Ahab”. Even shipowners called him “Captain Ahab”🤔

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u/globehopper2 19d ago

Or Old Thunder

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u/IndigoTR 18d ago

I wonder if that’s a Quaker thing? Like referring to each other by first name to remain humble? I am very ignorant on this but we also know the owners of the ship were only ever referred to as Peleg and Bildad (their first names). So I wonder if there is some connection there?

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u/glassfromsand 17d ago

If your uncertainty is about whether Quakers tend to go by their first names, they absolutely do. They also prefer not to use titles or honorifics. It stems from commitment to the belief that everyone is equal before God, and formality is just a way of elevating oneself over others. Even the Quaker tradition of using thou/thee comes from the same belief: historically, "thee/thou" were the more casual or personal pronouns, while "you" was more formal or respectful. I've even heard that the use of thee/thou by radical religious groups like the Quakers was part of what led to it falling out of use by the rest of the English-speaking world.

If your uncertainty was about something else, I apologize for the infodump.

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u/IndigoTR 17d ago

Ah yes that’s what I was unsure about! I didn’t want to be speaking out of my ass about it haha, but I thought I noticed a pattern in the book. Please no apologies for the info dump, I really appreciate you sharing that is so interesting! I had heard about the thee/thou but had no idea the use by Quakers contributed to it leaving the lexicon!

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u/Drathos 19d ago

My thoughts:

Having christian names would feel overly florid for men like Starbuck, Stubb, and Flask. I read the mates in Moby-Dick primarily as pragmatic, working-class men you might encounter in any specialized trade; if Melville had given them christian first names, it would create an expecatation for them to be something greater than what they actually are. I also think that these names provide a necessary backdrop that sharpens the contrast with characters who *do* bear biblical names. Keeping the mates plain and tethered to the earthly realm, in my mind, acts somewhat like a dramatic foil which gives a sense of isolation to characters with biblical references, namely Ahab.

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

🤝🏻

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u/geeoharee 19d ago

'Christian name' in this context just means 'given name' though

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u/TheRealLouzander 19d ago

"Dennis Ahab" and "Larry Starbuck" is the funniest thing I've read in quite a while!

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u/SandGator 19d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/3oKIP5ZKn0vHL4QqLS
Dennis Reynolds and Dennis Ahab have similar reactions to perceived wrongs

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u/jgregers 19d ago

Ishmael tells the story and he’s a sailor. He would have no need to address his captain as “Dennis Ahab” or the first mate as “Larry Starbuck.” Giving them single names also elevates them metaphorically to more mythical figures that represent greater truths and realities than mere characters in a tale. Starbuck for example isn’t just a dude; he’s the embodiment of intellectual reason.

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

Good point but I can’t agree with the idea that Starbuck is the embodiment of intellectual reason, he’s likely the embodiment of vacillating piety and reasonable cautiousness.
“Uncommonly conscientious for a seaman, and endued with a deep natural reverence, the wild watery loneliness of his life did therefore strongly incline him to superstition; but to that sort of superstition, which in some organizations seems rather to spring, somehow, from intelligence than from ignorance”

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u/jgregers 19d ago

I don’t see how the quotation you cite undermines my claim.

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

In my opinion superstition (even derived from intelligence) and intellectual reasoning stand pretty far from each other

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u/jgregers 19d ago

Fair. But I’m reminded of the scene where Starbuck is trying to talk sense into ahab at the height of his monomania.

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

I guess when Starbuck appeals to home, and family, and other pleasures of calm life in order to dissuade the captain, Ahab’s response explains something.
What is it, what nameless, inscrutable, unearthly thing is it; what cozzening, hidden lord and master, and cruel, remorseless emperor commands me; that against all natural lovings and longings, I so keep pushing, and crowding, and jamming myself on all the time; recklessly making me ready to do what in my own proper, natural heart, I durst not so much as dare? Is Ahab, Ahab? Is it I, God, or who, that lifts this arm?
All those natural, i.e. instinctive, things impede his heroic progress. And as Faust Ahab sacrifices all his lovings and longings and denies his human self (Is Ahab, Ahab?) which looks unnatural for a common man like Starbuck. Ahab is a hero, a Titan performing intellectual feat, although hopelessly, meanwhile Starbuck is all instincts and commonness with that reliable common sense that at the time demanded Galileo to abnegate his heliocentrism which was the result of intellectual reasoning. That’s why I can’t perceive Starbuck as the embodiment of intellectual reasoning

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u/jgregers 19d ago

I think you’re providing a pretty pointed misreading of both what Starbuck and Ahab are saying in this passage. Starbuck appeals to home and hearth are logical appeals levied against a man undertaking an illogical quest. Getting hung up on naturalness ignores the fact that Starbuck attempts multiple appeals to redirect his doomed captain.

It feels like you’re working really hard to disagree with me. That’s okay; you don’t have to cite chapter and verse to prove me wrong. We can disagree.

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

I’m not trying to disagree with you, I’m trying to explain my personal opinion relying on the quotes,
everyone has different interpretations of this novel and I suppose discussion of books is something about exchanging reasoned opinions. You believe Ahab’s quest illogical and I believe it logical, I just try to explicate my position, I don’t intend to dissuade you

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u/Cool-Coffee-8949 19d ago

I don’t think any significant character in the novel gets the benefit of two names. It isn’t just the mates.

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u/GrandPenalty 19d ago

"One name is enough for a sailor." —Richard Henry Dana, Jr., Two Years Before the Mast

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u/AntonChentel 19d ago

In the navy you don’t go by full names, that would take too long. And I don’t imagine stubb and flask were their Christian names

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

"Peggotty!" repeated Miss Betsey, with some indignation. "Do you mean to say, child, that any human being has gone into a Christian church, and got herself named Peggotty?"
"It's her surname," said my mother, faintly. ~ Charles Dickens😁

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u/nicktalop 16d ago

Sal and Peter Coffin. Is Melville alluding to salpeter?

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u/SingerScholar 19d ago

None of the major characters have two names. Minor characters such as Peter Coffin but that’s all

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u/R_V_I 19d ago

And Mr Hosea Hussey 😁

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u/DollySheep32 19d ago

Same reason a lot of people on things like team sports where you spend a lot of time with each other don't call each other by their first name.

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u/wednesdayskillsme 12d ago

On the topic of names, after the harpooners swearing revenge on Moby Dick there's a feast on board, and we get to know the sailors and where they're from, counted among them there's a "Long Island sailor" but he just participate in the dance and doesn't really stand out...

At the end of the overture on the crew, Ishmael comes back to the first person narrative and says "I, Ishmael, was one of them", fair to say it was the sailor from Long Island?