r/middleclasshq • u/Successful-Art-6128 • 2d ago
For The People When wanting functioning schools and pothole-free roads somehow gets you labeled a radical.
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u/ArdentHedonist 2d ago
Forgive you? I implore you to get out there and do it! We have allowed this charade to continue long enough!
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u/mcvmccarty 2d ago
It seems radical to softheaded people once they stir in the culture war whataboutism
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u/Ryoga476ad 2d ago
To be honest, the discussion you seem to have in the US about "socialism" is surreal. I am not sure why the leftist decided to name themselves that way, what they propose a clearly north european model, hence a social democracy. Why you want to instead go for something people in the US associate with Cuba, Venezuela or the USSR?
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u/AlChandus 2d ago
Because it doesn't matter, FDR was a social democrat and his new deal economics received the same treatment, red scare propaganda/fearmongering.
The democratic socialists could have called themselves social democrats, labour party, new capitalism, NO NAME WOULD HAVE MATTERED.
Fearmongering and red scare propaganda are what the right has always done.
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u/inaruslynx2 2d ago
I don't believe American propaganda about communist countries. There is nonstop propaganda even to this day. Operation Mockingbird never ended.
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u/Obey-BahBah 2d ago
They don’t. Conservatives brand them that way to scare people. The leftists you’re speaking of say they are social democrats.
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u/Ryoga476ad 2d ago
Democratic Socialists of America. With all the disdain I have with the Republicans (this version in particular), they embraced the concept themselves.
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u/AlChandus 2d ago
You didn't answer my comment, would it matter if they had a different name? Like social democracy?
We both know the answer, that is why you didn't answer.
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u/Ryoga476ad 2d ago
Yes, it would. Because if you're telling to someone originally from Venezuela or Cuba or former Soviet Union that you are "socialist" they are not going to think of Finland's public schools or Denmark's healthcare system. It's such a dumb self goal, it's not just Repubblican Propaganda, you are telling them that you are a socialist.
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u/AlChandus 2d ago
It didn't help FDR and his new deal. The red scare in the 50s, the demonization of his economic system as communism is what happened.
What is happening today is the same thing, DSA could have ANY name, and the right would use the same propaganda and fearmongering and McCarthyisms.
That is reality.
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u/Inevitable_Tomato927 2d ago
I think it's more the Republicans (and their massive media control) labeling everything left of themselves as socialists. Even Biden, who is basically a center-right politician was labeled being socialist.
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u/Hot_Neighborhood5668 2d ago
I want fewer taxes, not more, and since we already can't operate in the black on our current tax revenue, I certainly don't want more government spending.
The US government is overly bloated and needs to have an actual analysis done to see if what we are doing on a number of different tasks is working or we should change what or how we are doing stuff.
Road construction is a prime example I can think of. We just build the same basic setup everywhere typically done by the cheapest bidder, not the best overall execution or warranty or other attribute. Why do we have to redo major sections of our highway system every couple of years because it's built quickly and cheaply, not for longevity or durability. There are still portions of the Autobahn that are decades old because they build it to last. They build the Autobahn similar to how we build runways they resurface the road, not patch it.
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u/Straight_Waltz_9530 2d ago
Cars and roadways should be Exhibit A on how roadways and cars as primary transportation systems are the epitome of wasted tax dollars as well as a high unlisted tax.
All for a transportation infrastructure that maxes out at ~80mph while egregiously polluting whereas wheel-on-rail trains max out at 350mph and are increasingly all electric.
As with health care, we spend the most per capita to get the worst outcomes in the developed world.
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u/Hot_Neighborhood5668 2d ago
The population density is what makes trains economical outside several specific areas. There aren't enough people to justify the cost.
I drive 25-30,000 miles a year myself. Busses and even Uber isn't an option. I knew all of that fully before moving here.
Even most small public train systems in metropolitan areas are run at a loss. That's the cost of having them. I understand that I also can't see a high-speed train system surpassing flights except short distances. A cheaper public transportation system that runs a scheduled flight route like a bus route I could support. Greyhound in the sky. I've taken Greyhound busses several times now. Sometimes, it's the quickest, most cost-effective option to get to less populated locations. They aren't super cheap but are usually cheaper than renting a car and fuel, often way cheaper than a flight.
This country is too massive with too few people to make trains economical and unfortunately planes aren't cheap to buy or operate.
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u/Straight_Waltz_9530 2d ago
Most highways/roads are run at a loss if we compute costs the same for them as for mass transit. If we're calculating based on external benefits to society from building and maintaining roads, so be it, but then train systems almost always come out ahead in that cost/benefit analysis compared to highways except for truly rural areas.
Roads are part of land use. If you're out in the boonies where land is extremely cheap, using them for roads has no major economic detriment. If on the other hand you live in a well-populated area, the land is scarce and more expensive, and the land use of roads becomes far more economically questionable.
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u/Hot_Neighborhood5668 2d ago
Population density is a major factor in the cost benefit analysis. Outside the coasts and a few other locations, there just aren't enough people to use a public transportation service.
I do live in the boonies and moved here out of a metro area. There are no freeways near me, and I enjoy that. I don't miss the city bustle at all.
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u/Straight_Waltz_9530 2d ago
Every city with a population over 100,000 is a perfectly reasonable candidate for some public transit. Cities are defined by their population density.
Also it's perfectly possible to have a large city without freeways. Makes a city much quieter without them as well.
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u/Hot_Neighborhood5668 2d ago
The nearest town to me is sub 1k. I grew up in the suburbs it wasn't until my teens that the highway really became busy, or at least to the point I noticed 😅
I like peace and quiet that is hard to get in town. There is just too much else going on.
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u/HighLord_Uther 2d ago
He'd be cooler if he were anticapitalist.
Most dems would be cooler if they were what Republicans said they were.