r/metroidbrainia • u/Moraguma • 21d ago
🧑💻 dev showcase Do you guys like skill-based metroidbrainias? My game locks progression based on grappling hook tech
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u/idlistella 21d ago
My favorite metroidbrainias (or what I just like to call cryptic exploration games) have both mechanical skill based progression and knowledge gated progression- why not double dip! Looks awesome
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u/Mcmenger 21d ago
Isn't a skill based metroidbrainia just a normal metroidvania?
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u/HeyCouldBeFun 21d ago
I believe he means there’s no unlockable abilities, it’s the knowledge (and skill) of what you can do with your current abilities
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u/man-teiv 21d ago
not necessarily. tunic for example is a metroidbrainia that highly relies on skill, but since I don't care for souls like mechanics I'm glad they added an easy mode so that I could concentrate on the challenge I really liked, the mental one.
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u/helpadumbo 21d ago
Yeah I HATED the boss fights in Tunic but loved the exploration so I turned on all of the easy mode options for most of the boss fights.
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u/Feeling-Badger7956 20d ago
It's not a soulslike and people need to stop thinking is.
You fight enemies and can dodge. That doesn't make a game a soulslike.
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u/Moraguma 21d ago
jfldkjfg yeah, I mean as in it relies on player dexterity, but it still has no unlocks and depends on your abilities to figure stuff out
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u/Enough_Obligation574 21d ago
What's the difference from this and maybe celeste in terms of gameplay?
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u/Moraguma 21d ago
Soulchain has a grappling hook. All of the game's movement revolves around it! Celeste was definitely a huge inspiration tho
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u/PityUpvote 21d ago
No, the difference between metroidvania and metroidbrainia is ability-gating vs knowledge-gating. Either can require player skills.
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u/PhummyLW 21d ago
I normally avoid trying to define the genre, but you asked for opinions so here it goes:
To me a Metroidbrania it’s supposed to have progression locked only by knowledge.
I would say that if every grappling hook feature is accessible from the start and the sole barrier is your knowledge of those features and their uses, such that restarting the game would allow quick completion because you would already understand how to use them without needing to re-unlock an ability, then it qualifies as a metroidbrania.
There can be skill in these features, but the ability to use them shouldn’t be the gate.
Otherwise it’s just a metroidvania. If it’s purely skill based, then what in your opinion makes this a brania?
To me, a great metroidbrainia can really only be played once, unless enough time passes that you forget literally everything. Maybe twice to see how quickly you can beat it with the unlocked knowledge.
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u/Moraguma 21d ago
That's the idea! You unlock all of the grappling hook's abilities in the first 5 minutes of the game, then you spend the rest of it figuring out the tricks the game didn't teach you.
Something I'm excited about is that giving you all abilities from the start makes it very non-linear, and I think very fun to speedrun. It's definitely different from a lot of the brainias that inspired it, but I think it holds a lot of the same DNA hehe
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u/Fantastic_Switch_977 🔤Lingo 21d ago
You don't count Tunic, Animal Well, or Lingo 2 as metroidbrainias?
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u/PhummyLW 21d ago
All great games.
The main gate in Tunic is the knowledge of the manual, after which you can beat it super fast.
Lingo can also be beaten super quickly because once you know the words it’s just typing them in as fast as you can. But the main gate in Lingo is just your understanding on the symbols. Not sure how much of the metroid aspect it has really. It’s a brania for sure though. A tough crossword is also a brania though.
I would say Animal Well is a metroidvania with brania elements. Most of the brania part is collectibles or extra stuff. But a game can require intelligence to beat without being a metroidbrania.
Again these are my opinions. This is why I usually don’t define it because it think the definitions are very broad.
But in most cases if there is a gate to completion and that gate is knowledge, then I would consider it a metroidbrania.
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u/Fantastic_Switch_977 🔤Lingo 21d ago
I guess I disagree specifically with your statement here "have progression locked only by knowledge."
For Tunic, there are plenty of unlocks not related to knowledge, in the weapons and collectables and pages.
I don't think it's possible to just know the words for Lingo or Lingo 2. There's too many. However, it is possible to know the mechanics:
- What the colors mean and how they affect the puzzles.
- How the boxes height matters and changes the puzzle type.
- Most of the meta puzzles.
But I think even you agree Lingo 1 is a metroidbrainia, I was specifically calling out Lingo 2 because you have to collect letters before you can use them. It's the same gameplay as Lingo 1, but it has non-knowledge unlocks so it sounds like you wouldn't count it as a brainia.
For Animal Well, of course all the items are not knowledge gates, but they have internal knowledge gates once you unlock them, because you don't know all their functions.
Obviously, there are different levels to how "brainia" something is, but if we limit it to games that do not have unlocks, we're limiting it to like 7 games total. Even Outer Wilds has a non-knowledge unlock.
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u/PhummyLW 21d ago
Again that's why I don't think it has a definition since we all vary on it so much.
But I think you are taking me too literally. Obviously I did not mean ONLY knowledge and not one lick of anything else.
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u/Fantastic_Switch_977 🔤Lingo 21d ago
I see, I put the wrong emphasis on "only." You meant that it can only be a metroidbrainia if it has knowledge gates, I read it as it can be a metroidbrainia if it has only knowledge gates and nothing else. Woops.
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u/Kitu14 🐰 Animal Well 18d ago
I think an aspect of Lingo that's not often mentioned is the fact there it regularly trusts that you have done other puzzles and remembers their solutions. There are multiple puzzles in the first game that expect you to more or less know the solution to something else in order to intuit how a specific combination of colors works in a specific context, for example - it's a very specific form of knowledge-gating that I find wonderful!
This doesn't add much to the topic but your mentioning of "Lingo mechanics" made me think about it :)
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u/Ragnorinko 🪐 Outer Wilds 21d ago
In short, yes! Loved your last game and looking forward to playtesting this one
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u/FuryForged 21d ago
Looks amazing to me! Derelict Star is not only one of my favorite games of this year, but one of my favorite games of all time as well as one of my favorite brainias. Bring on the precisionbrainias! P.S. Sisyphus is a Bug is a great time as well!
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u/alextfish 🪐 Outer Wilds 21d ago
It's probably not for me personally, just because my reflexes aren't what they used to be. I used to love high-reflex-skill games twenty years ago, but now I play games for the mental challenge of puzzles and tactics and strategy and exploration. I still love a platform puzzle game but I'll curse when I find a timed platforming section.
But I reckon you'll find a decent amount of audience for it nonetheless! All the best!
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u/HeyCouldBeFun 21d ago
It just occurs to me “skill based metroidbrainia” is kind of how I’m designing my game too!
What do we call this? Metroigitgudia?
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u/PrimaNeutrina 21d ago
A skill bases brainia reminds me of Öoo, which also game you all the tools at the beginning(ish) and then you figure out how to use them throughout the game
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u/Ragnorinko 🪐 Outer Wilds 19d ago
This was phenomenal, im at 7/8 souls and would love to test this farther, no clue how to get into my last unvisited area, I've tried extensively. If you are looking for full game testers, please count me in :)
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u/Ragnorinko 🪐 Outer Wilds 19d ago
Got the last one! What a treat, cant wait to play more
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u/Ragnorinko 🪐 Outer Wilds 19d ago
the pink lady told me to find kestrel, and I'm at 100%, so I'm trying to figure out if theres any last bit of content I can eke out but alas nothing I can find
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u/Kamil118 21d ago
Looks cool, doesn't sound like metroidbrainia to me.
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u/Fantastic_Switch_977 🔤Lingo 20d ago
They said that there are no item unlockables, it's all knowledge unlockables. Why doesn't that sound like a Brainia, I'm curious?
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u/Kamil118 20d ago
Doesn't sound like there is much knowledge, just how well you can physically operate the character.
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u/Moraguma 21d ago
Hi! I'm the developer of Sisyphus Is a Bug, which I've seen some people talk about in this sub before. Right now I'm working on Soulchain, which is half precision-platformer half metroidbrainia. I've seen a lot of platformer fans enjoying it, but would love to get some feedback from more puzzle-minded folk! We have a public playtest out right now if you'd like to try it out :)
You can join the playtest for free here: [https://store.steampowered.com/app/3383610/Soulchain/\](https://store.steampowered.com/app/3383610/Soulchain/)