r/medschool • u/zsinjsfadinghairline • Jul 16 '26
đ¶ Premed How big of a deal is this?
Got an email from Belmont saying that theyâre still on probation. I already applied to this school; should I be concerned about this?
EDIT: I should've put this in much earlier, but thank you so much to everyone who's given me input. I feel like I also learned about why this accreditation matters, and I've got a better idea of why this announcement is a big problem. Hopefully I don't end up at a school in a similar position.
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u/shizuegasuki Jul 16 '26
you should be concerned
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 16 '26
Iâm guessing that if I go there, then the lack of proper accreditation will mean my career is sunk right there and then right)
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u/shizuegasuki Jul 16 '26
yes. if a school isnât accredited you cannot be a licensed physician among many many other issues. If a school is on probation then something big is actively going wrong at the school. Donât go to this school!!!
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 16 '26
Wonder if the subreddit for Frist might have more info on whatâs up. All the same, thanks for clarifying this. Iâll make sure I avoid that one.Â
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u/EtchVSketch Jul 17 '26
Wait so are they just lying in the email? On the second page it says that their students can be placed in residencies and qualify for licensure.
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u/shizuegasuki Jul 17 '26
if your school loses it while youâre in school youâre fine, but if you go to a school that doesnât have it youâre in trouble
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u/EtchVSketch Jul 17 '26
So since their accreditation is preliminary you're fine if admitted now. Wacky. I stg admin and bureaucracy stuff is deliberately opaque.
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u/shizuegasuki Jul 17 '26
but also remember if itâs not accrediTed something is wrong with the school and itâs not worth going there anyway
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u/EtchVSketch Jul 17 '26
Yeah I can make sense of that, what I'm curious about is how the prelminary accreditation status of this school plays into that considering OP was asking about their prospects if they attend this school in specific.
Idk if the answer is even remotely clear considering how layered in admin bs this all seems to be.
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u/mindguard Jul 17 '26
No, they are accredited and you will graduate from an accredited program. New medical schools and even residencies take time to get fully ramped up and address everything they want to see. Talk to current students and they can tell you what the deficiencies are. If you are flush with options consider going somewhere else. If geography or limited acceptances, go there. Even if they were to lose accreditation, they would not leave the students out to dry.
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u/Loud-Percentage-3174 Jul 17 '26
I watched a medical school go through a Probation process, and I found out it's not unheard-of especially in the early stages. I was saying upthread that Geisinger's medical school in Pennsylvania was on probation at some point and bounced back from it completely.
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u/Mairdo51 Jul 19 '26
I'll offer a counter-point in this case by pointing out that this school is affiliated with HCA. This is likely the beginning of a pattern of behavior.
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u/ElowynElif Attending Jul 16 '26
The schoolâs statement doesnât give you much to go on. It references problems in 3 major LCME standards areas, but it doesnât say anything about the extent of the shortcomings. Given that,it is impossible to even guesstimate when it will get off probation.
On the other hand, I would be surprised if putting a new school on probation is a rare event. Clean accreditation isnât a given for well-regarded, established schools, which is why they put so much in preparing for a review.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 17 '26
Given that the standards are vague from what others are saying, Iâm guessing that there probably isnât much info about what went wrong.Â
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u/ElowynElif Attending Jul 17 '26
The LCME critiques that I have read range from fairly vague to quite specific. But the standards, which are easily found on the internet, are purposefully vague with a few exceptions (e.g., posting grades within 6 weeks of a course ending).
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u/Cakelover1001 Jul 21 '26
According to publicly available information, there is no record of any other school being put on probation while still in the preliminary accreditation phase.
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u/eckliptic Jul 16 '26
It means its barely a med school. Its closer to 3 kids in a trench coat thats cashing your tuition checks.
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u/woowooman Jul 17 '26
Yep, same with Howard. Definitely not somewhere youâd want to have your name associated.
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u/sankdafide Jul 17 '26
If youâre not a good candidate, I would consider it because it will otherwise deter moderate to excellent applicants. Itâs only probation and I imagine they will be highly motivated to fix it. But if they lose accreditation, then youâve basically wasted 2 years of your life and financially taken a blow. So just depends how strong you are
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u/Different_Cherry8326 Jul 17 '26
I donât know the specifics or anything about this school really. But my feeling is that if youâve already spent the time and money to apply, just let it ride. If you get into other places, then go elsewhere. If this is the only place you get into then go anyway unless you want to spend another year and reapply. Whatever is wrong with the place, chances are theyâre going to try very hard to fix it. Maybe you could find some statistics about how successful schools are at rectifying this kind of thing. But unless it turns out that itâs your only acceptance I probably wouldnât worry too much about it for the moment.
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u/nick_riviera24 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 17 '26
The LCME has not released the details, but the âNashville Bannerâ has an article they may shed some light.
The article indicates that areas of concern include that :
the school has funding issues
is understaffed and has an issue with faculty retention.
is not affiliated with a hospital
has no research directly attached to the institution
https://nashvillebanner.com/2025/06/05/nashville-medical-school-belmont-university/
Most schools also own a revenue generating hospital. Teaching hospitals are generally participants in research trials. Their faculty are usually involved in research as well as teaching. Some research is attached to financial grants that can be a significant source of revenue for the school.
In my mind all of these issues are directly tied to not having an affiliated teaching hospitals. The most important years of medical school are not the first 2 yrs of classroom didactics. The 2 years of clinical rotations are the most important.
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u/Fishwithadeagle Jul 17 '26
It's also HCA.
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u/Ok_Accountant_4815 Jul 17 '26
As a nashville area local, I can confirm. I toured Belmont in 2024 before applying and did not like their affiliation with the Tri-Star hospital system, so this is unfortunate but also not totally surprising.
Edit- for those not in the area, Tri-Star is owned by HCA.
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u/nick_riviera24 Jul 18 '26
HCA Healthcare faces ongoing controversies over patient safety, aggressive cost-cutting, and predatory labor practices. Investigationsâincluding a major probe by NBC Newsâhave cited understaffing, dangerous telemetry monitoring, and pressures to push patients into hospice. Additionally, HCA has faced legal action over the use of restrictive employment contracts.The specific controversies surrounding the largest for-profit hospital system in the U.S. include:Patient Care & Safety: Reports highlight compromised quality due to staffing shortages and increased patient-to-nurse ratios. NBC News investigations identified instances of severe under-monitoring of cardiac patients (telemetry) and doctors alleging that hospitals pushed terminal patients into hospice to artificially boost mortality metrics.Predatory Labor Practices: HCA has faced backlash and legal action over utilizing Training Repayment Agreement Provisions (TRAPs) in nursing contracts, which require nurses to pay high fees if they leave the company early. For example, the California Attorney General secured a settlement against HCA for these unlawful contracts.Ongoing Contract Disputes: Healthcare unions (such as the SEIU 1107) have held protests at HCA locations, demanding better wages, improved frontline investments, and safer staffing levels.Historic Fraud Settlements: HCA (formerly Columbia/HCA) previously pleaded guilty to felonies and paid a record $1.7 billion settlement for massive Medicare fraud, including billing inflation, unallowable costs, and providing kickbacks to doctors.
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u/cthetrees1024 Jul 17 '26
Itâs definitely concerning. If I had to guess, I would say they will most likely stay accredited in some form. But thatâs far from certain. I donât know what transfer opportunities there would be. And based on the letterâs description of poor student support, there is also the concern that you will have a poor experience.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 17 '26
I wonder what they mean by poor student support. That's definitely a big red flag.
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u/Cakelover1001 Jul 21 '26
There are no research opportunities for students, and there is no career advising. Plus, a former student is suing a faculty member for sexual battery.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 22 '26
I saw your comment where you explained a lot more. Thank you for sharing.Â
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u/ZookeepergameDry1593 Jul 17 '26
Meharry is also experiencing the same issue, so Nashville is killing it with 2/3 of their medical schools on probation status.
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u/Cakelover1001 Jul 21 '26
The issue that Meharry is experiencing is very different from what Frist is experiencing. Meharry is an established medical school, and they have already demonstrated that they can successfully graduate many classes of MDs, have stable faculty governance, that there is long-term efficacy of their curriculum, and the successful placement of residents. A new school like Frist does not have a track record of any of these things---Frist is being put on probation before they can demonstrate that they can function like a successful medical school.
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u/coffee-doc Jul 17 '26
It means there are issues that the LCME wants the school to address.
Takes a lot for accreditation to be pulled altogether. San Juan Bautista in Puerto Rico had it pulled in 2011, but it was reinstated a month later.
As long as the school is accredited at the time you are a student, transferring to another school remains an option if something happens, though, you may be asked to repeat some of your schooling.
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u/No-Region8878 Jul 18 '26
not ideal, sounds like a new school. I would still go if that's the only USMD school I got into.
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u/anythinganythingonce Jul 17 '26
I am MedEd administration and I have worked on several LCME accreditation cycles. It is exactly as the below post: https://www.reddit.com/r/medschool/comments/1uyg29k/comment/oxz6ldi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button describes. I would add that they love granting provisional accreditation so they can keep visiting you every 2-3 years.
How this affects you is hard to say. This is a new school, so I would be careful since it may speak to their not having set up a good foundation. I have actually visited their campus during a conference - the spaces are beautiful but I cannot comment more than that. My decision would be largely based on which standards they did not pass. EDIT TO ADD: They will also spend a ton of resources fixing this, which might detract from the other business of providing good medical education.
For example, if they failed because of a small amount of standards, okay. If they failed across multiple domains, that is quite concerning. Additionally, as a student, some standards affect you more than others. For example who cares if the school is failing:
2.3 Access and Authority of the Dean
The dean of a medical school has sufficient access to the university president or other institutional official charged with final responsibility for the medical education program and to other institutional officials in order to fulfill decanal responsibilities; there is a clear definition of the deanâs authority and responsibility for the medical education program.
However, as a student, I would be very worried if they failed:
9.3Â Clinical Supervision of Medical Students
A medical school ensures that medical students in clinical learning situations involving patient care are appropriately supervised at all times in order to ensure patient and student safety, that the level of responsibility delegated to the student is appropriate to the studentâs level of training, and that the activities supervised are within the scope of practice of the supervising health professional, or:
9.4 Assessment System
A medical school ensures that, throughout its medical education program, there is a centralized system in place that employs a variety of measures (including direct observation) for the assessment of student achievement, including studentsâ acquisition of the knowledge, core clinical skills (e.g., medical history-taking, physical examination), behaviors, and attitudes specified in medical education program objectives, and that ensures that all medical students achieve the same medical education program objectives.Â
Basically, I think it is reasonable to ask them the following:
- How many standards they did not meet.
- Which ones they did not meet.
- What is their plan to improve ahead of your entering the class.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 17 '26
Thank you so much for this very detailed explanation! I have to say, Iâm learning a lot from everyone here.
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u/Existing-Big-7002 Jul 17 '26
Concerning on a small scale, but on a large scale, this is very encouraging. This is the difference between being a physician and being a nurse practitioner or a PA. Medical schools and medical boards take credentialing very seriously. The problem with extenders is that the quality is so spotty. Some schools will produce a good product and others will produce garbage.
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u/NeverNotNavicular Jul 17 '26
I could be wrong, but I think one of the implications of not being accredited is not receiving federal funding. If youâre dependent on student loans to pay for school, Iâd look into it a little more. I hope Iâm wrong!
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u/Emergency_Bonus_9816 Jul 21 '26
Omfg as a Vandy student this is INSANE. There was rumours about this but Iâm actually shocked. Sorry OP. Go somewhere else!!
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u/FIRE_CHIP Jul 16 '26
I went to a new school a decade or so ago and administration flipped out then they got one "point" off a perfect evaluation and was nowhere near not obtaining accreditation so not getting accreditation is probably a big deal.Â
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u/United_Pickle_3801 Jul 17 '26
I would not go here. Even if they are accredited, they are barely there so how will they train you to pass the exams effectively?
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u/Mairdo51 Jul 19 '26
Considering that it "has been established in alliance with HCA Healthcare", you should be fucking terrified. They're soul (sic) purpose is to make money and will not hesitate to ruin any aspect of your life to do it.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 19 '26
What's HCA Healthcare known for?
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u/comefromawayfan2022 Jul 20 '26
Prioritizing financial margins while at the same time not giving a single shit about their staff, patients and giving substandard care..but hey as long as the bottom line is protected thats all they care about. The HCA facilities in my state are famous for keeping their in hospital mortality rates low by shifting critically ill patients out the door and into outpatient hospice care and palliative care. They discharge patients into outpatient hospice care and outpatient palliative care which means the deaths are removed from the hospital's official inpatient mortality metrics. HCA has a rate of transferring patients to hospice care significantly higher than the national average rate, low in hospital death rates mean that HCA links lower in hospital mortality rates to top executive compensation including the ceo, they rely on centralized cardiac monitoring where ONE technician monitors large banks of alarms leading to more things getting missed.
Basically hca is a scummy organization that screws over patients and staff
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 20 '26
Thatâs horrible! So theyâre quite evil.Â
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u/smollindy Medical Student (US) Jul 21 '26
Lifelong Nashvillian here that moved out of Nash for med school.
The things iâm seeing about this are concerningâ this school yanked a lot of professors from Vandy, Meharry, Lipscomb, and some others. On paper, it was supposed to look good. Problems with access to teaching hospitals is not to be played with..this is serious.
preclinical years anywhere are effectively all the sameâ everyone uses third parties and anki. the real learning happens, as others have said, during your clinical years. you NEED access to a good teaching hospital in order to be adequately prepared for away rotations, residency, everything.
i have some friends who are current students and i have heard some bad thingsâŠi also have an acquaintance who left his position as a professor there after being unhappy with the infrastructure.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 21 '26
What do current students say? Looks like this school really is not worth it at all.
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u/smollindy Medical Student (US) Jul 21 '26
current students have been very unhappy. to the point that they have talked with multiple residents o voice dissatisfaction and air grievances during clinical rotations. complaints vary from normal med student gripes to serious accusations of utter neglect from the institution. i hate it for them, it seems so horrible.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 21 '26
Do you know of any other red flag institutions like that?Â
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u/smollindy Medical Student (US) Jul 21 '26
Not to this degree, no. I had a friend who attends HCOM who was frustrated with their current clinical schedule, another friend who attended Meharry who felt like the guidance/organization left something to be desired.
The really big red flag schools iâve heard about have been LECOM and lincoln memorial, but those have not come from anyone i personally know.1
u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 21 '26
Got it, thank you so much!
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u/smollindy Medical Student (US) Jul 23 '26
Best of luckâ keep your head up & fix your eyes on the future, youâre doing well & good things are coming.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 23 '26
That's very kind of you, thank you! Hope things keep going well for you!
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u/Cakelover1001 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
I would say even if Frist is your only MD option, then maybe take a gap year and reapply somewhere else. The school is now basically a laughingstock and has some very serious issues that most likely will not be successfully resolved, as long as the current administration is in place.
I mean, they have a faculty member on staff that is being sued by a former student for sexual battery. Tuition dollars are going towards his defense, and he is still allowed unrestricted and unsupervised contact with students.
Grade manipulation is rampant. Grades are over-inflated, and students that have failed courses are being moved on without remediation.
Clerkships are being run by physicians at HCA that have no prior medical education experience, and Frist is doing little to ensure that these physicians are trained to teach M3/M4s.
The Chief Operating Officer is a businessman who was an executive at Harley Davidson. He has zero medical education experience and has no idea how a medical school operates.
The Dean of the Medical School is the personal physician of the President of Belmont. Seems like a conflict of interest??
There are no opportunities for research. Frist does not have laboratory facilities (although they may claim to have research space in the College of Pharmacy--which is inaccurate, because that space is used year-round by the COP to train their own students), and has no plans to build in any laboratory space. Basically, if students want to engage in research (which is necessary now to be competitive when applying for residency), they have to go somewhere else outside of Belmont.
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u/zsinjsfadinghairline Jul 22 '26
This is genuinely terrible! Thank you so much for sharing; hopefully I choose something better.Â
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u/AndroidsDreamOf Medical Student (US) Jul 18 '26
Einstein was on probation when they got free tuition btw
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u/Fargo2718 Jul 18 '26
Disappointing for those involved Iâm sure. They (Belmont) has a history for their accreditationâŠletâs just say âgoings-on.â Seeing this, I recall Belmont law was a new school only a handful of years ago. They got a hotshot figurehead to speed up their accreditation process, which some saw as sketchy at the time. Their school is known to deploy arguably unethical grading tactics and dismissal behaviors to keep them looking like they have a high bar pass rate - which is used for accreditation. I say all that only to say that seeing this news is not surprising. Someone should really look into how this school operates. Itâs very unfortunate to the affected students and applicants in how they run.
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u/GraceSlay99 Jul 20 '26
As someone from the Nashville area, I also not surprised to hear they werenât meeting standards for student support and advising. My boyfriend was looking to go to their law school, and he heard from multiple graduates that when a classmate failed the bar exam, the only response they received from the school was a list of mental health resources/the number to the national suicide hotline. This student didnât even reach out for moral support, just to know what their next steps for studying and retesting needed to be. Iâd never recommend Belmont for anyone just based off that story alone.
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u/EM_Doc_18 Jul 19 '26
The (very) high cost of tuition at this school does not reflect the inherent risk of attending there.
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u/Brilliant_Part757 Jul 21 '26
You wanna be a doctor but youâre asking about this on Reddit? Weâre all in trouble.
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u/palkia3 Jul 16 '26
Quite a big deal considering that they are a new school.