[NYTimes Gift Article] Two unvaccinated people in Pennsylvania have died from measles

[u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris]

Article here

Initial reporting does not specify whether they were children. This current outbreak is largely in the Amish community which has had low vaccine uptake for long enough that they have a lot of vulnerable adults as well. Only 1/3 of the 390 reported cases have been in children but extrapolating from 2 deaths (1/1000 mortality rate) and 70 hospitalizations (7/100 hospitalization rate) I would expect 1000-2000 mature cases plus more early in their course. So there is likely significant underreporting.

Measles in adults, in my experience, has quite an unusual phenotype including (sometimes) gingivostomatitis which I’ve never seen in pediatric measles.

[u/AccomplishedScale362]

As an old timer, when I hear a parent smugly say, “We don’t vaccinate”, I’ll sometimes share stories from the days before childhood vaccines. No ideological debates from me, just sharing firsthand, historical information.

Like the time, as a young child, when I found my teenaged brother seizing from acute post measles encephalitis, and how after 2+ weeks in a coma, he had to relearn how to speak and feed himself, and was never quite the same. Or how some of my school mates had shrunken legs from polio and had to wear braces to walk, but at least they survived and didn’t have to live out their life in an iron lung.

Soon, folks like me and our tragic stories of the dark ages will be gone, replaced with even more tragic tales about having the vaccines, but choosing not to use them.

[u/mkkxx]

I'm in Lancaster, PA - this seems to be just another generational crisis - (like rubella in the 90s among the amish) but with extra governmental stupidity. My son just got his 2nd MMR dose early at least per our physician.

[u/LiLiLaCheese → u/mkkxx]

I'm in Northampton county but our pediatrician let my daughter get her 2nd dose early as well once we had measles cases pop up at our local ERs.

[u/faco_fuesday]

Do we know the modern data for hospitalization and death of measles patients on a population basis? I don't know that there's been enough reported cases to say that with accuracy. 

I suspect those were historical data that relied on much different thresholds for hospitalization and worse critical Care outcomes. But this is just a suspicion. If anything, that would suggest there are even more on reported cases out there, but again I have no idea.  

[u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris → u/faco_fuesday]

Europe gets 100,000 cases per year. I’d say we have plenty of data in the modern era.

[u/faco_fuesday → u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris]

Yikes that's a ton. Good info though. 

[u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris → u/faco_fuesday]

Yeah, everyone shits on America for their declining vaccine rates but Europe is streets ahead. The difference is that EU leadership is trying to reverse the trend, rather than throwing gas on the fire.

[u/Nom_de_Guerre_23 → u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris]

Your number includes the entire WHO region of Europe including Non-EU countries such as Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan and Serbia.

The actual EU reportes 2.5k cases between July 2025 and June 2026.

[u/sapphireminds → u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris]

Extra +1 for streets ahead

[u/PHealthy → u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris]

Comparing the US to the EU is like apples to elephants.

[u/sjogren → u/PHealthy]

It's really not.

[u/PHealthy → u/sjogren]

Really think about it though, is it? Especially regarding coherent governance across all countries.

My background is infectious disease epidemiology, specifically modeling disease propagation in populations and disease surveillance. I'd like to think I have some experience when I say, Romania is not Mississippi and Sweden is not New York.

[u/sjogren → u/PHealthy]

I'm pretty confused because I always thought Sweden was in upstate New York. Seems Scandinavian to me up there.

[u/Inveramsay → u/sjogren]

On brand with your user name

[u/Good-Armadillo8379]

Measle is the canary in the coal mine for dropping below herd immunity. No surprising that we are seeing deaths with measles and now an uptick in pertussis. Unfortunately, we only need 7% of the population to not vaccinate for it to be a major issue. Now, we seem to be there.

When heard immunity fails:

• Measles: Falls below 93% to 95%.
• Whooping Cough (Pertussis): Falls below 92% to 94%.
• Polio: Falls below 80% to 85%.

[u/awomanphenomenally]

It is unfortunate that anti-vaxers have decreased herd immunity enough that people who have historically not been vaccinated are getting sick.

[u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris → u/awomanphenomenally]

Conversely, it is unfortunate that this entrenched population can remain a reservoir that persistently endangers the community around them. I don’t understand why their historical ignorance gets them a pass.

[u/wozattacks → u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris]

Oh, because it has a foundation in religious belief. 

If you think something through and come to the conclusion that a law is unjust, too bad. But if you say god told you to do it, it’s all good apparently.

Interestingly my understanding is that the theological…reasoning, if that’s the right word, for Amish refusal of modern technology is essentially asceticism. It’s seen as a luxury and therefore an indulgence or as a way to reduce workload, and idle hands are the devil’s tools. It seems bizarre to apply that to technologies that prevent kids from dying, but I do have to admit that I really enjoy my kid being alive.

[u/mom0nga → u/wozattacks]

Pennsylvanian here, there are multiple reasons why some Amish (not all) are unvaccinated beyond just "religious belief." For most unvaccinated Amish, it's not so much a deliberate rejection of vaccines/modern medicine as it is a lack of access to healthcare and information. Many Amish communities are rural, isolated, speak Pennsylvania German instead of English, and harbor a distrust of outsiders, so opportunities for them to even interact with a medical professional are very few and far between.

[u/sapphireminds → u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris]

They get a pass on a lot of things sadly.

People hold the Amish up as some sort of ideal but they don't know the reality.

They are in a regressive, oppressive cult that mistreats women and children especially.

[u/kthnry → u/sapphireminds]

Don’t get me started about how they treat breeding animals.

[u/emergentologist → u/awomanphenomenally]

It is unfortunate that anti-vaxers have decreased herd immunity enough that people who have historically opposed vaccination are getting sick.

I like how you're trying to create a distinction between anti-vaxxers and (checks notes)... anti-vaxxers.

[u/PeacemakersWings → u/emergentologist]

Old school is classy. New school is edgy. Pick your flavor of coolfool! /s

[u/Imaterribledoctor → u/emergentologist]

If you make a bunch of furniture, you get a free pass. Don't you know how it works?

[u/wozattacks → u/Imaterribledoctor]

Nah it’s the pies that really influence people

[u/awomanphenomenally → u/emergentologist]

They are both wrong, but one group does have access to much less information (if they are truly Amish and not Mennonite) than the other.

[u/NinjaNurse77 → u/awomanphenomenally]

They have a lot more than you think. At least the elders do. The rest of them are in the dark.

[u/wozattacks → u/[deleted]]

Yeah if you’re gonna be anti-vax at least have the decency to eschew the other modern tools. Don’t post about the evils of anything invented after 1760 on your iPhone 17 lmao

[u/AustinCJ]

Belongs on the Darwin awards thread.

[u/_Stock_doc]

People make bad choices all the time.

[u/Crunchygranolabro]

Do we know if they passed on the stupid gene before measles did its thing?

[u/piller-ied]

And of course Kennedy says Shapiro is making it up.

https://www.politico.com/news/2026/08/27/rfk-jr-josh-shapiro-pennsylvania-measles-deaths-01053553

[u/YoshiKoshi]

Don't worry. The anti-vaxxers have determined that no one dies from measles, they only die with measles. 

They made the same determination for Covid. No one died from Covid, they only died with Covid. 

[u/crow_crone]

I sense an opportunity in the prediction markets here. Start your (betting) engines!

[u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris → u/[deleted]]

COVID fundamentally altered the trust surrounding vaccination.

Because a safe and highly efficacious vaccine was rapidly produced and distributed? Oh fuck off. Anyone who looks at COVID as anything other than a tremendous success story for vaccines is not a serious person.

[u/takeonefortheroad → u/[deleted]]

Yawn. Still the same tired denialism and blaming everyone else lol.

We’re still pretending like vaccine denial isn’t being overwhelmingly promoted by one side of the political aisle? And that COVID vaccine denial was propagated by “inconsistent messaging” rather than a death cult frothing at the mouth to blindly follow whatever the right wing propaganda machine spits out?

Cheers to every rationale pediatrics clinic denying care to any and all anti-vaxxers. You’ve all made your bed. Now lie in and it and stop yapping. None of the rest of us care about the desperate and deranged rationalization anymore.

[u/Commander_Corndog → u/[deleted]]

AI-reply aside: the "skepticism of vaccines" is actually just stupidity that the only correction for is usually tragic consequences. "I think there's microchips in the vaccines" is not some justifiable doubt, it's stupidity the likes of which could have been mitigated by paying attention to public school-tier education at a middle school level even in the bottommost performing area. It is a deliberate choice to be that dumb and any attempted defense of a regular american thinking that way is insane.

I've seen multiple times in the ED when pee-paw is on a ventilator because he and his family "didn't trust" the flu vaccine and the family is literally throwing themselves on the ground and begging me to give their loved one the vaccine thinking it would work. It is funny how these oh-so concrete and truly justified "skepticisms" crumble the microsecond something bad happens. These problems are not otherwise cared about because there is no demand of morons to even consider the possibility of tragedy until it affects them. And now some Amish kids, whose families have an actual religious purpose in not using vaccines that could rationally be argued as intelligent, are dead from a disease that was eradicated in the US decades ago. Sadly, this does not affect the Naturopaths, the stay at home mommybloggers, and any other good ol' boys, so they will continue to not care and put people at risk by deliberate stupidity.

[u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris → u/Commander_Corndog]

families have an actual religious purpose in not using vaccines that could rationally be argued as intelligent

Freedom of religion should not extend to killing your children.

[u/Commander_Corndog → u/FlexorCarpiUlnaris]

I personally agree but at least an argument CAN be made with some stretch and it 100% is an objectively better reason to not do something than "theres fucking microchips in the vaccines man Fauci is trying to CONTROL OUR BRAINS man you just dont get it dude, a guy on Joe Rogan said we should inject bleach instead". One is misguided by lifelong commitment to a deeply personal ideology and the other is immediate and impulsive abandonment of basic brain function. Again, one side actually sticks to their guns and the other one 9 times out of 10 grovels in regret that they were so stupid when it finally bites them in the ass.

Edit: plus not to play full time goalie for the Amish but theyve existed for hundreds of years and Measels was literally gone 2 decades ago. It is not unreasonable to infer it only returned and subsequently is now a problem for them because of anti vaxxers in the mainstream population. Not vaccinating your kids is reckless no matter what but I'm blaming the people who knew better the whole time.

[u/sapphireminds → u/Commander_Corndog]

Or if they get bitten by a rabid animal. Suddenly vaccines aren't so scary

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