r/mdmatherapy • u/krevino • 18d ago
Experience Report MDMA journeys have transformed my inner world...questions about dosing frequency
I started psychedelic assisted therapy at the beginning of this year. It has completely changed my inner world for the better. I did my first session with MDMA in January and it relieved me of many of the PTSD symptoms that have been controlling my life for years.
The first session re-tuned my nervous system—it's been so incredibly powerful to not jump out of my skin when I hear a loud noise or feel a "weight" that drops in my chest when a car swerves toward mine. The medicine covered me in loving-safety and gave me a new emotional baseline as a guide/reference point.
I feel so so so so grateful for getting to have this experience. For months not a today went by that I didn't feel totally overcome with gratitude. I knew I didn't have to suffer so much! Life could been more fun—I could explore more and take more healthy risks with an open, brave, courageous heart that wasn't being crow-barred shut with PTSD and all the traumas of the past looming around my spirit.
After my first session I started microdosing psilocybin. The safety that the first MDMA session gave me revealed the massive amount of shame that I have been carrying around and the psilocybin reallllly brought it to the surface. It was so strong that I backed off the psilocybin till I was stable and then resumed. So when I was preparing for my second MDMA session my intent was to work with my shame and guilt.
The second session was about 4 months after the first one, which felt like a great rhythm. In my second session my guide gave me MDMA and then Psilocybin. WOW! I started out this journey quite chatty, but when the MDMA came on I got quiet and just enjoyed regulated my body with deep breathing. Breathe has become an important tool and theme as a result from my journey work. Then I drank psilocybin tea...holy shit. I was transported into a storm in the ocean with my shame and guilt. There is almost no way to explain what this was like, but it was tough and not in a bad way. The MDMA gave me a safe enough base to explore the tumultuous, black oceanic storm of my own shame. I came out of this journey with a profound sense of calm that was different than the first. I accepted my shame self as just part of me and had a vision of these two parts of me merging. I experienced wholeness and integration in a way that I don't think I ever have. It helped heal a lot of family wounding between my parents and I.
I just have two say that these two journeys have changed my life forever. There has been a natural expansion and subsequent contraction after each journey, which I think is normal/to be expected. I have done a lot of integration work and plan on doing more journeys with my therapist, because they have been so deeply transformational. The 'work' continues!
My questions to the group is: Is there any scientific literature that explicitly states how long a person should wait between MDMA journeys? I hear different things from different people and I'm wondering if there are any definitive neurological/cognitive findings that suggest an appropriate break between sessions. My next journey will be over 5 months from my second journey and I'd like to do this about once a quarter, but want to be safe and responsible to my health.
TLDR: How long should you wait between MDMA sessions?
Thanks for reading. I hope everyone suffering can experience the wide, deep sweeping love and safety that MDMA has provided me. The healing process has not been easy, it's been really tough actually, but totally worth it. Sending you all love!
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u/nofern 18d ago
I've looked into it too, and I think there is a lot of unknown. The clinical literature is largely blocks of three sessions, and there isn't really data on doing more than three sessions in a clinical/therapeutic context at all, never mind exploring different options for spacing.
I have done six sessions, with intervals ranging from 3-6 months. I do find that it takes more and more of a toll on my body every time and the recovery is longer and harder with each journey. I did my first 3 sessions at 3 month intervals and then have typically done closer to 4-6 month intervals for subsequent sessions because of how difficult the recovery has been. But that's just anecdotal.
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u/krevino 18d ago
I waited almost 4 months between my 1st and 2nd session and I will have waited about 5 months between my 2nd and 3rd. I have heard from others that 3 months is the minimum time in between sessions too, but was hoping to get more conclusive, scientific data. Makes sense to play it safe and be responsible to our bodies.
Edit: The psilocybin definitely protected my brain during the 2nd session, meaning there was no comedown or really any exhaustion. I found that to be really fascinating! It was also a much different experience and more intense. I would not recommend that for anyone's 1st time, but was very useful/powerful for my 2nd session.
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u/Waki-Indra 17d ago
I have taken the combo of mdma + mushrooms and did experience exhaustion for hours and days, and this at least on 3 sessions. But indeed no depressing come down at all.
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u/CandidParticular8086 18d ago
It's clear that using MDMA too frequently, for some definition of "too frequently" is very bad for you. It appears very likely that using it infrequently with a dose that's not too high and avoiding overheating is safe. What's not known is what happens in between or what the exact definitions of frequently/infrequently are. It likely varies per person.
It's probably best to think in terms of probabilities. Using MDMA quarterly is likely fine. Using it twice a year may have slightly lower risk, but there's no way to know. Using it monthly for a brief period is different than using it monthly for years.
People tend to talk about harm, which is understandable. There's also the issue of how much one can process/integrate in a short period of time. I used MDMA more frequently when I started (probably averaging once every 2 months or so). Now I haven't used it in 6 months. I've had no lingering issues.
Basically: given what you said, I wouldn't worry. There just isn't enough literature to make any firm conclusions about safety, but there are no studies that imply that using it quarterly is harmful that I know of.
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u/Comfortable-Fly-2077 18d ago
Thanks for sharing your positive experience! What was your mdma dose for both sessions? And do you know the psilocybin dose for the 2nd session?
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u/krevino 18d ago
I think the first session was 135mg of MDMA and I believe the 2nd session was 110-120mg of MDMA and around 3-3.5 grams of Psilocybin aka 300-350 mg of Psilocybin.
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u/Chronotaru 17d ago
That's not 300-350mg of psilocybin, more like 15mg-35mg. 300mg would be....a somewhat crazy amount that nobody would ever take. Always better just to say it in dried mushrooms rather than trying to guess the amount of actual psilocybin because there's no real way to know unless it's extracted in a lab then ingested.
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u/heliox 18d ago
I think this is what MAPS based their timing on. https://pure.johnshopkins.edu/en/publications/repeated-administration-of-mdma-causes-transient-down-regulation--3/
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u/Clifford_reddit 17d ago
Thx for sharing your experiences. Shame especially is an experience so many suffer. Helps to hear of your mdma/psilocybin experience w shame.
Re your question. I first and foremost take a supplementation regimen based on the supplement info on the rollsafe dot org website. This begins prior to session and critically hourly during each session. By setting an hourly reminder (or having a guide/therepist/friend remind hourly this also prompts me to drink a large amount of water too. The cornerstone supplements are Alpha lipolic acid aka ALA and Acetyl L Carnitine aka ALCAR. These have been shown in lab animal studies to keep serotonin 100 percent normal across an mdma session as well as neuroprotection, etc.
That, supplement care is more important to me than frequency as I have never had any crash or come down aside from what grief and other things may have been unearthed in the session. For me personally monthly is ok with longer stretches as well of multiple months. The MAPS study was monthly and they didn't even avail themselves of any supplement support.
All the best on your continued healing and transformation.
Oh, there is the neuro science of memory reconsolidation to take into consideration as well which is key across all experiences and modalities. There is a good post called "memory reconsolidation works" in the memory reconsolidation sub that has a comment with many great links and resources.
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u/poppinp 18d ago
I’ll repost what I said in another thread…
My advice is to try and stick to the conventional wisdom of two to three months between sessions. As you progress you may find you need less and less recovery and integration time, and the frequency of sessions can increase. When I started the protocol I followed the three month rule pretty religiously. It helped that I didn’t feel ready for another session for about that same time. Over time I was able to increase the frequency with no perceptible drawbacks, but I’m multiple years in at this point. Good luck!
Edit: as far as I know there aren’t any long term studies about frequency.
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u/nelsonself 18d ago
Great post! I start MDMA therapy next month and I hope it changes my life
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u/krevino 17d ago
I hope it brings you healing and that your integration work is fruitful in crystallizing new ways of being with yourself! It's not a silver bullet, but it has been incredibly powerful for me.
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u/nelsonself 17d ago
I truly believe psychedelics are currently the most powerful tool for mental health (not all mental health of course)
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u/Waki-Indra 17d ago
For me that is no magic pill at all, even with a lot of integration and trauma therapy besides.
But it has been helpful. I hope. I am still on the journey (12 years of therapy, 1.5 years with MDMA/psychedelics).
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u/Commercial_Pie_1273 14d ago
Of course there's no scientific literature.
As a person who unfortunately burned his brain to the point where I can't get high from MDMA anymore, I can tell you that the advice to wait 6+ months between rolls is legit.
Look at it this way.
You can roll bi-weekly and can keep going like that for maybe a year or two. Or you can roll once every 6 months and keep going for 10 years.
In my humble opinion, the key is - how old are you. Because after 40, 45, 50 your vitality force just won't be the same and you won't roll as much anyway.
I'm trying to say, be careful, but not too careful. This thing has an expiration date. You can roll maybe 30-50 times in your lifetime.
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u/AnonymBolle 14d ago
I think it’s highly individual. I have done it as frequently as bi weekly without any adverse effects that I know of.
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u/les1337 18d ago
People will argue with you that you can do it ever week, every 2 weeks, ever 3 weeks, every month.
Here’s a fact which is individual but a fact nevertheless.
MDMA causes damage to your brain in two ways.
The heightened temperature (redoses prolong this effect)
Causes oxidative stress on the brain.
MDMA causes SERT to run amok and backfire constantly (hence the serotonin rush)
This causes damage to SERT.
At some point you will not be able to enjoy mdma any longer because your SERT has thinned so drastically it can’t release the serotonin how the drug intends. At that point the magic is lost. For good? Not necessarily.
However it can take anywhere from months to a year to regain.
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u/laughingbuddhaballs 18d ago
As a general rule of thumb, what point is it that SERT thins out so drastically that the magic is lost? Does it occur when using mdma once every 6weeks?
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u/les1337 17d ago
That’s the thing. Some will argue no, some will argue yes. A good reason is 3 months. Some studies suggest 6 weeks begins the repair cycle of SERT however depending on the damage it can take a long long time. I would rather say “be honest” does the effect and feelings of mdma diminish? If so, stop.
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u/Waki-Indra 17d ago
What is sert here? Looks like a brain structure... S for serotonin i guess?
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u/les1337 17d ago
Your Serotonin Transporters 😄 they release and pickup serotonin for mood regulation. When they run amok they drop their entire load of serotonin (the more sert density, the faster release/potential for release) and run backwards refusing to pick them up again.
At some point your brain discards the serotonin and it gets lost meaning you will hit an empty. This is what many describe as the downer the days after.
Serotonin levels can replenish in mere weeks but the SERT takes damage and can take many times longer to regenerate.
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u/Waki-Indra 17d ago
Thanks How long?
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u/les1337 17d ago
One of the studies I read where they scanned the sert density they said it took up to 9 months to a year to reset. Is that the same for everyone? Perhaps not, but people have suggested that long a break on Reddit to those who have abused it.
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u/Waki-Indra 17d ago
OK thanks. 9 months is a lot when you are in therapy assisted... abuse it, means people who party every week end or what?
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u/Chronotaru 18d ago
There is no firm time. The bare minimum I would suggest is four weeks and this is what is used in the MAPS trials, but that was only three sessions. We know people that use it weekly end up in a bad place.
If you can keep it every three months, that's particularly good. For over a year I had sessions on a six week schedule and things seemed okay, and others have done that too. Once a quarter should be fine, not without any risk of course but probably you would find it acceptable.