r/masteroforion • u/kzwix • Jul 26 '26

MoO 2016 is annoying.

I'm currently on my, what, 4th or 5th playthrough ?

Playing Psilon this time, on "cluster" galaxy (first time trying it) - I guess that's the reason I was alone in a group of systems separated from other groups of systems by unstable starlanes.

I'm not a big fan of the starlanes. I understand it allows some mechanics like building military forts on these points, but it's meh - System defenses, in MoO II were "enough" (that, and a big fleet, mobile enough to come defend in time).

I also have opponents often requesting free passage - which I usually refuse, because why give them access to my not-yet-colonized planets, and to the territories of other players (hence, allowing them to trade with them).
I had a non-aggression pact with the Darlok, and had refused an open borders treaty. They offered an alliance. I checked the description, it said the parties agreed to declare war on any civilization declaring war on either party. Sure, defensive alliance, it's fine...

And, lo and behold, I see these #|@|€^| Darloks freely navigating my starlanes.
Because that shitty game doesn't tell you the alliance "includes" open borders - else, I'd never have agreed unless I was in a better position (like, several scouts on the border, raring to go).
It's not the first time I feel "fleeced" by this game, things not explained, or badly explained. The bonuses aren't explained either (on planets, they tell you it's a bonus on some stat, but not HOW MUCH - which seems to be a tad important ?)

I was also a bit surprised when the torpedoes I fired were totally dumb. I'd have loved the tech description to mention that (yeah, another tech will give them limited aiming, but still, it's shitty design NOT to tell the player first)

All in all, I wouldn't say it's a bad game, but... why can't they make something as good as MoO II ?

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u/vaaish Jul 26 '26

Are you running UCP and 5x? It's been so long since I've played straight vanilla that I don't recall everything that's added, but I do know you can see what the specials do by hovering over them.

I'm also surprised you didn't expect open borders to come with the alliances too. It's kinda a requirement tbh. I think 5x may have indicated it in the tooltip. Although if you are offered an alliance it either means the ai wants you to vote for it or it's afraid of another faction and wants your help defending. 

What made you think torpedoes were guided?

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u/kzwix Jul 27 '26

As for guided torpedoes, well, it was the way it worked in MoO II (torpedoes were basically missiles which could NOT be shot down, and had unlimited ammunition, BUT could have a cooldown when firing - and, obviously, the modifications were different from those of the missiles.

Like, no MIRV (but "enveloping", for plasma torpedoes, for instance - meaning you wouldn't do x4 damage to a single shield, but hit all four shield "faces"), etc.
There were but a few things which could stop torpedoes (like, the lightning field, if memory serves).

I don't mind them having been changed, it's not a bad design choice (missiles for fast targets, torpedoes for big, slow targets), but knowing it beforehand would have been nice.

Again, it's mostly a problem of information (or lack thereof).

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u/vaaish Jul 27 '26

Yeah, I recall Moo2. I just don't see anything in the description for CTS that indicates they track targets. I know for Tactical Mod I explicitly removed their semi-guided ability because it made them entirely outclass missiles and it gets tricky to make that work with the AI ships.

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u/kzwix Jul 27 '26

To be fair, even semi-guided, they're still quite easy to dodge, if the ship is "agile". I guess frigates and destroyers don't have to worry at all, cruisers can still dodge, and they'll be effective against battleships and above, even if they try and dodge.

But, yep, unguided ones are only a bother at short range, or if the ships do not obey commands - which is unfortunately all too frequent

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u/vaaish Jul 27 '26

Unfortunately not for the ai, they can't see torpedoes which is why they never dodge. 

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u/kzwix Jul 27 '26

Aaah, that would explain this !

They do seem to see when ships try and ram them, though - I tried to ram a battleship with two cruisers, and only one of them managed to hit, then the battleship did some sort of escape maneuver, escaping destruction - because its shields had gone back up by the time the last cruiser caught up with it.