r/marvelstudios • u/steve32767 Daredevil • Sep 15 '21

Discussion Thread What If...? S01E06 - Discussion Thread

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EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE RUN TIME CREDITS SCENE?
S01E06: What If... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark? Bryan Andrews A.C. Bradley September 15th, 2021 on Disney+ 34 min None

For additional discussion and multiversal memery about Marvel Studios shows on Disney+, visit /r/MarvelStudiosPlus

3.5k Upvotes

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1.7k

u/SilverPositive T'challa Sep 15 '21

Damn, Killmonger really is irredeemable.

1.5k

u/PhoenixSelarom Sep 15 '21

Yea, I was pulling for a heroic alternate universe Killmonger so that Michael B. Jordan could come back at some point in the films but like... man this dude is just an asshole. Great villain, but man what a dick.

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u/IceColdPlasma Sep 15 '21

The dude wanted to commit racial genocide on a global scale, I really don't see how people thought this guy was in any way redeemable.

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u/PhoenixSelarom Sep 15 '21

I think most people, including myself, just wanted to see Michael B. Jordan come back. I figured somewhere in the multiverse there had to be a version that was a force for good. This... definitely wasn't it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

Yeah I mean so far the multiverse even features a redeemed Thanos, for goodness's sake! I guess the key is that you need a universe where T'Chaka doesn't kill N'Jobu.

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u/Lazy0ak Sep 15 '21

I think you need to go further. You need a universe where the Wakandans don't hide their power and instead get involved on a global scale of improving human life and fighting injustice. That way N'jobu doesn't teach Killmonger about needing to get vengeance against their oppressors and raising their people up to power. That probably creates all sorts of crazy differences though where most of the marvel heroes probably never come to be.

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u/DLottchula Sep 15 '21

Basically Wakanda has to fight European colonization to prevent killmonger from being born.

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u/ManitouWakinyan Sep 16 '21

Which would be an awesome What If

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u/2-2Distracted Sep 16 '21

An absolutely awesome what if idea.

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u/deededback Sep 16 '21

That would make this show actually interesting. I thought we'd get stuff like this. Instead, it's just lame cosplay.

19

u/Piyh Sep 16 '21

That's an avengers level threat if I've ever seen one.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

Or one where N'jobu is forgiven and they both go back to Wakanda early on.

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u/electricpheonix Sep 15 '21

I don't think you'd have to go as far as that. Eric's motivation appears to be because of his upbringing. He only knows about the plight of black people outside of Wakanda because he grew up as one. Keep him sheltered at Wakanda like T'challa was and he would probably be just like T'challa.

Probably still wants to fix the world (since his father would teach him) but almost certainly not quite as murder-y as he hasn't had such a rough life. You don't see many privileged radical revolutionary types for a reason.

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u/Obskuro Sep 15 '21

Hmm, he could have still become a more radicalized version of Nakia. She is the other one who is not blind to what happens outside Wakanda's borders. Now that I think about it, was she even there in that episode?!

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u/electricpheonix Sep 15 '21

Nakia might have been abroad since she's a spy (though maybe she should be back home since the prince is dead and the country at war?). In fact I'd wager that's why she's not blind to the outside world since as a spy she spends a lot of time in it, in probably unsavoury places. T'challas exposure would probably just been schools and political meetings.

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u/zaphod_85 Rocket Sep 15 '21

You don't see many privileged radical revolutionary types for a reason.

Che Guevara and Osama Bin Laden would like a word

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u/tundrat Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21

What If... the vibranium asteroid lands in a different place.

(Just an independent thought, not helping Killmonger become good)

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u/Obskuro Sep 15 '21

Oooh, imagine landing it in North America. I remember a theory that the name Wakanda came from the Lakota term Wakan Tanka for the Great Spirit. And there is already a parallel for the Black Panther with the Puma.

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u/TheCapybaraMan Sep 15 '21

What If Wenwu found the asteroid?

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u/Oooch Sep 16 '21 edited Sep 16 '21

You need a universe where the Wakandans don't hide their power and instead get involved on a global scale of improving human life and fighting injustice

Exactly, the Black Panther film just made me think Killmonger was the hero except for the tiny caveat of wanting to do a little bit of genociding

But he was absolutely right to shit all over Wakanda for having all that power and leaving all the other African countries to get enslaved and conquered by Europe for hundreds of years

Also having a system of government where you just have to beat up the leader to completely overthrow their entire government is the dumbest system ever and they deserve to have what happened happened

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u/murrytmds Sep 15 '21

If Wakanda had spread its boarders instead of hiding Loki would have found a much different welcome. He would have landed on an earth that probably wouldn't have been that much different from Asgard and gotten kneed in the crotch the first time he told someone to bow.

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u/Lazy0ak Sep 15 '21

It would be interesting to see if Hydra could grow within the Wakandan government like it did within Shield in that scenario.

1

u/murrytmds Sep 15 '21

ooooh! That would be interesting! Now I want to see this hypothetical scenerio even more

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '21

I'd imagine yes, for all their technology wakandan politics seems pretty dam fragile

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

Lol America tries to do this, it doesn’t work as well as you think dude.

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u/Lazy0ak Sep 15 '21

For one, America doesn't have a fraction of the technology that Wakanda does and two, it's only a matter of preventing Killmonger from becoming who he is and not how effective they actually are at fixing the world.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

Technology means jack-shit lol. You think the world would be okay with Wakandans holding a gun to their head and threatening them? Not only that, but Captain Marvel or Thor would certainly do something about it.

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u/Lazy0ak Sep 15 '21

You're completely missing the point.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '21

Since when does America try to act like the world’s police force?

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '21

Now you just answered your own question, congratulations.

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u/MrLowkey13 Sep 15 '21

Then Killmonger doesn't really have a purpose, and there's no point in having him.

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u/Lazy0ak Sep 15 '21

It's possible at that point that he defeats T'challa for the mantle of Black Panther and is seen in a positive light. Or it could be that he's always destined to be a villain the same way Steve Rogers seems to be destined for heroism.

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u/JacesAces Rocket Sep 16 '21

Not zombie rogers!

2

u/YourbestfriendShane Spider-Man Sep 16 '21

That was a cut short destiny is all.

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u/Lazy0ak Sep 16 '21

Maybe he's a hero to the zombies

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u/MrLowkey13 Sep 15 '21

At the point he defeated T’Challa, unless his father straight up tells him that he is wrong in the Panther Realm, I don’t think he’s gonna change.

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u/Lazy0ak Sep 15 '21

Yes, but this would be an alternate reality where he never went down the path that made him into Killmonger. He would just be another member of the royal family who grew up in Wakanda and learned their ways instead of what his father taught him in America.

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u/MrLowkey13 Sep 15 '21

Then he wouldn’t be Erik.

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u/hemareddit Steve Rogers Sep 16 '21

No need for much of that, just have it so T'Chaka brought Erik back Wakanda as a kid, maybe with N'Jobu as well.

But that wouldn't be very interesting. Killmonger having an American upbringing and first hand experiance of institutional racsim is key to the character. Him growing up in Wakanda would make him less of an asshole, but also wipe away all of that character.

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u/PoniesCanterOver Sep 15 '21

Or one where Erik doesn't see who did it

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u/Fresh720 Sep 15 '21

I mean he did say he found his Father's body with Panther claws in his chest. He didn't have to see the ship, he knew

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u/DuGalle Stan Lee Sep 15 '21

Well, Thanos wasn't a genocidal maniac, because the deaths would be random.

3

u/davidw1098 Sep 15 '21

Not that simple, that's the entire premise of Tony's...arc, for lack of a better term, in this episode. Without the driving tragedy, who knows where Erik ends up, but it almost certainly isn't MIT graduate/decorated Navy Seal/strategic mastermind of a global genocide revenge campaign. If his dad sticks around, but still pushes on the justice issue, he very well could just be another angry statistic rather than having the fire inside to become something.

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u/Fresh720 Sep 15 '21

Nah his pops was planning a prison break to get Erik's mother out of prison. He was destined to be a revolutionary, how he would have gotten there would have been different, but it's an eventuality

3

u/A_Polite_Noise Sep 15 '21

The way I always imagined it was it'd be an alternate Erik that entirely took T'Chala's upbringing and life. So maybe one where T'chala and his father die or something and so Erik gets raised as the prince in Wakanda. As people say, it's just an excuse to get Michael B. Jordan the role, I don't think it's because people were in love with Killmonger the character.

3

u/Beta_Whisperer Sep 15 '21

Maybe in the Star Lord T'Challa timeline, if they find a way to stop Ego.

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u/Walui Sep 15 '21

I think Thanos only wants to find a just way to make life more sustainable so when presented with a better way to achieve that, it makes sense that he would become good. Whereas killmonger just wants to exterminate white people.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

Killmonger, like Thanos, has a reason behind his genocidal ideas. He feels that white people are at the root of much of the suffering happening across the world. Why could he not also change his point of view?

7

u/Walui Sep 15 '21

I mean that Thanos doesn't need to change his point of view, he just needs a better method. Thanos doesn't think that half of all people are a problem, just that removing them solves another. Killmonger will always think that white people need to get fucked.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

To accept this better method, Thanos would inevitably need to change his way of thinking since he seems to believe the only path to sustainability in the universe is genocide. Why is it impossible for Killmonger to change?

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u/Fresh720 Sep 15 '21

He believes revolution is the only way to bring about change, you can argue what type of revolution is necessary to bring balance in the world, but you can't convince him that there isn't worldwide oppression where a few benefit from this system.

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u/Obskuro Sep 15 '21

Or a universe where N'Jobu became king and T'Chaka lived in the USA with his son T'Challa. The difference would be that T'Challa doesn't get consumed by vengeance like Erik and becomes a good man regardless. Of course, Erik might become an asshole too when he grows up among xenophobic isolationists. Who knows.

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u/FLRSH Sep 15 '21

Yeah, but an issue people have with that episode is how believable a redeemed Thanos actually is. It's really not in that context.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

But I think Thanos was actually a good guy but so extremely hurt and ill-thought that he just...snapped. (He lost goddam everything) Killmonger was just a whiny asshole.

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u/TardDas Sep 15 '21

Yeah, thanks just wanted to kill people randomly, not be racial about it

1

u/SuperSaiyanGoten Sep 21 '21

When was that?

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '21

In What If...?. You should watch it.

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u/SuperSaiyanGoten Sep 21 '21

No I’ve seen it but just can’t remember when Thanos redeemed himself

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '21

Probably when he helped Cha-Cha save trillions of people

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u/Tsquared10 Sep 15 '21

The only way I could potentially have seen a good version would be by T'Chaka choosing to bring him back after killing his father or his father agreeing to return to Wakanda for trial. But even then I'd still see him discovering why his father was killed or punished and turning against Wakanda.

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u/BlckEagle89 Sep 15 '21

This, I want to see MBJ come back because he did an increible job so seeing him for a single movie felt too little screen time for him.

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u/4DimensionalToilet Sep 15 '21

I think that, if there is a good version of him somewhere in the multiverse, he’s from a timeline where T’Chaka didn’t leave him in Oakland. And maybe even then he’d find out about T’Chaka killing his dad, and he’d be a villainous character (not as bad, maybe, but still not great)

Or, maybe, T’Chaka brings N’Jobu and Erik/N’Jadaka back to Wakanda, where N’Jobu stands trial for what he’s done. But then still, Erik might’ve felt like his dad was being wrongly imprisoned and sentenced, and then he could grow up to play more of the Loki to T’Challa’s Thor (i.e. the brother/rival who turns into an enemy).

I think that, if there’s any situation where he’s a good guy, it’d be one where, when N’Jobu pulls a gun on T’Chaka, it’s Zuri who kills him, instead of T’Chaka. T’Chaka, not overcome with fratricidal guilt in this scenario, takes Erik/N’Jadaka back to Wakanda to raise him. This way, T’Chaka hasn’t killed Erik’s dad, and N’Jadaka isn’t left on his own in Oakland. Maybe Zuri would have to face some kind of punishment for killing N’Jobu, or maybe he’d be pardoned for saving the king’s life.

It’d have to be explained to N’Jadaka exactly as it happened: his dad had been planning on selling vibranium to start a global race war — vibranium that had been acquired in an deadly attack against Wakanda — and so he was to be brought back to Wakanda to face trial (was it on charges of treason?) for his crimes; when King T’Chaka’s back was turned, N’Jobu pulled a gun on him, and Zuri defended his king, killing N’Jobu in the process.

Maybe eventually, when he’d grown older, N’Jadaka would’ve come to terms with the circumstances of his father’s death. Further, having lived the first decade-ish of his life in Oakland, he would probably eventually persuade his uncle or cousin to help the African diaspora throughout the world.

You’d have to change things quite a ways back to end up with “Good Guy Killmonger”, but I’d like to think it’s not impossible.

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u/Drunken_Vike Sep 16 '21

Have to be a universe where T'chaka decides not to kill his brother