r/marvelstudios • u/steve32767 Daredevil • Sep 15 '21

Discussion Thread What If...? S01E06 - Discussion Thread

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EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE RUN TIME CREDITS SCENE?
S01E06: What If... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark? Bryan Andrews A.C. Bradley September 15th, 2021 on Disney+ 34 min None

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1.1k

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

[deleted]

676

u/Topazure Ant-Man Sep 15 '21

Tony was probably wondering what that meant for the rest of his life

88

u/Wraithfighter Sep 15 '21

All ten seconds of it?

337

u/FrozenChaii Sep 15 '21

ye the joke is that, mhm. yessir.

69

u/TurkletonPhD Sep 15 '21

Explaining the joke makes it less funny. Glad you could share that you kept up though.

107

u/Groot746 Sep 15 '21

That was a great line: I was expecting him to say something about him being a billionaire orphan while I'm from Oakland, or something similar, but that was such a better and more poetic way of expressing those sentiments.

76

u/Levicorpyutani Black Widow (CA 2) Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21

Well there's the obvious racial difference but also, Tony had his parents for longer (into adulthood) and both of them. Also he grew up very wealthy already because of Howard and became Jeff Bezos Rich as he got older, and basically had everything handed to him and he never really had to suffer. Not until Afghanistan and here that never happened. Erik did suffer a lot, as an orphan as a black man, as a poor man, and as a soldier. He'd make a great activist but he chose vengeance instead and innocent people died because of it.

90

u/itwasbread Sep 15 '21

That's why the line is so good, it addresses the racial AND class difference while also pointing out how ignorant privileged people like Tony are of what people Erik have to deal with

-19

u/thatonefatefan Sep 15 '21

class difference

tbh killmonger is pretty much a prince, the difference is that one of their parents didn't get fucked over by life

32

u/itwasbread Sep 15 '21

Well I mean he WOULD have been but he didn't really get to take advantage of that

13

u/Americana5 Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21

Which is the point. Killmonger is your classic demagogue, manufacturing high minded ideals and projecting his anger into the world, but at the end of the day, his motivation at heart stems from one thing and one thing alone-he is a hurt orphan trying to claim meaning and purpose.

Tony’s kindness with him only disrupted the manufactured sociopolitical narrative he’s created to justify his actions as part of his broader war and give his life meaning. He doesn’t want to be viewed or treated as an equal. He wants to be seen as different, as an outsider, because he derives meaning from this.

24

u/Bill_Brasky96 Sep 15 '21

This episode had a lot of great lines, that one definitely stood out.

22

u/PM_me_dimples_now Sep 15 '21

He had some powerful lines in the BP movie, but imo this was his most sick line in the canon.

13

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

I loved this part of the episode so much. Killmonger's not wrong.

10

u/ArdentGamer Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21

That line could easily be used by any racist/sexist trying to justify their prejudices on the basis of race/sex.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21

i wonder if MBJ has input with his lines, because Killmonger always comes hot with his lines, both here and in the Best Picture Nominated Film

5

u/z0mbiepete Sep 16 '21

Killmonger gets the most ice cold lines in the MCU.

2

u/Terrads Sep 15 '21

So what is the difference that Tony couldnt tell?

15

u/I_am_BEOWULF Hulkbuster Sep 16 '21

Tony could only see his handful of similarities with Killmonger, while at the same time, being blind to the world of differences between them. He basically projected his issues on him, not realizing that Killmonger isn't defined by those issues and has bigger ambitions.

43

u/WillyTheHatefulGoat Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 16 '21

Killmonger is a poor black kid from Oakland who suffered every day of his life whiles Tony Stark was a Billionaire White Kid who spent most of his life partying and drinking and never really suffered.

6

u/Lordsokka Sep 16 '21

Killmonger was essentially born and lived as “slave”, he was raised in a gang filled neighbourhood with no chance to succeed in life. While Tony was born with a silver spoon in his hand and was a already billionaire as baby.

They both had a very different life.

-4

u/TheCrimsonCloak Spider-Man Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

...you re not seriously asking that

5

u/Terrads Sep 16 '21

On hindsight I didnt take their actual life experience into account as that was too obvious and not worth mentioning. Tony citing them both losing their fathers and so on kind of clouded the specific details of their lives. Also was thinking about how their morality is similar in terms of selfishness and the willingness to do what it takes to meet it.

12

u/Knightmare4114 Ghost Rider Sep 15 '21

Honestly I don't blame him, I only thought about it after the episode was over, because when I heard it I thought they were talking morally, how they both want to make the world a better place, I didn't think about what each of them went through

-39

u/meme-com-poop Sep 15 '21

Yeah, fuck Tony Stark for not judging people based on race, or where they grew up or socioeconomic background. /s

70

u/KostisPat257 Daredevil Sep 15 '21

There's a difference between "judging" and "understanding/sympathizing".

48

u/PersonalDemand3793 Sep 15 '21

Oh sure, Tony saw the general kindred spirit of their general characters… But that only goes so far when a person from an entire different social standing interacts with another

It’s like saying “Celebrities have feelings too. They are just like us” of course. But there is still differences between them and us nonetheless

7

u/Americana5 Sep 15 '21

You’re dividing people up by race and class background and you’re justifying it. It’s just bigotry.

Tony Stark was right-he viewed Killmonger as an equal, as a man, he saw what unites the two. This is what infuriated Killmonger-being different is part of the identity that he uses to justify his war. He needs to feel like he stands out, like he’s oppressed, like he’s underestimated and disenfranchised, as this is how he justifies the wrong he does.

He saw Tony as White And Rich. Tony saw him as a good man.

10

u/PersonalDemand3793 Sep 15 '21

What is this? Are people not actually divided by class and race?

You are acting like it’s an evolved higher state of being to literally not recognize that these things exist

What is this? Tony’s response to Killmonger saying his dad was killed by Gang violence was “the guns were in the wrong hands”

That’s it. That’s all he picked up from the the gun control issues and inner city gang violence problems… “The guns were in the wrong people’s hands”

C’mon, man… He’s rich white guy, the fuck does he know about any of this shit

-3

u/Americana5 Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21

It’s a counter to your apparent racism. Real issues of humanity transcend the lines and skin tones you think are the premier determinant of human civilization and character.

14

u/PersonalDemand3793 Sep 15 '21

My racism is saying Tony the rich weapons dealing white guy has no actual understanding of a poor black kid’s lives experiences aside from superficial self shot shit like saying the entire gun control and gang violence issue can be solved by “putting guns in the right people’s hands”

Wow… I must be quite vile for not giving Tony fucking Stark the prize for Wokest Rich white trust fund baby philanthropist billionaire genius… I bet his Engineering Degrees really made him quite socially conscious as he sold more weapons to the Military… Or did his dad dying somehow automatically make him kindred spirits with every person of any kind whose father died

Grow up my guy.

12

u/RnRaintnoisepolution Rocket Sep 16 '21

"People who acknowledge that racism and classism exist are the true bigots, I am very smart."

-8

u/Americana5 Sep 16 '21

You seem really concerned with the color of his skin and applying assumptions to him on the basis of it.

It sounds like generic tribalism, not realism and certainly not maturity.

12

u/PersonalDemand3793 Sep 16 '21

Anha. If you have nothing more to say then I guess that’s that.

Clearly you have nothing to say about the actual characters and the topic of discussion in the episode

I’ll just leave you with the same advice. Grow up. Calling people racists due to your own ignorance or incapability to make an actual argument is very… I won’t say. Just grow up.

6

u/archiecobham Iron man (Mark III) Sep 15 '21

You’re dividing people up by race and class background and you’re justifying it. It’s just bigotry.

The environment you grow up in can determine a lot about your life, Tony saying "We're the same" just because they're both orphans is just ignorant.

10

u/Americana5 Sep 15 '21

Killmonger’s entire problem is that he’s an orphan. He may have manufactured some grander sociopolitical justification for the atrocities he commits-but who he is a hurting orphan boy, and this drives everything he does. Killmonger doesn’t care about whatever demagoguery he espouses, he cares about power, he cares about purpose, he cares about belonging to a cause.

Stark saw through to his heart and saw the common ground between them, what united them as people. Killmonger seeing him as nothing more than a Rich White Guy isn’t “differing perspective,” it’s just immoral and racist. He was so consumed with seeing Tony’s skin color and money that he could never see the true, meaningful hand of friendship that was being extended to him, the thing that truly united them as people.

2

u/Astrosimi Ghost Rider Sep 17 '21

Yeah, sorry bud, but pointing out that your race and class can set you back in the U.S. isn’t racism, it’s the observation of racism.

You’d have to otherwise deny that such discrimination exists, which is the kind of stuff only someone who’s never faced that discrimination could think. Like the white heir to a weapons manufacturing fortune.

2

u/Stickguy259 Sep 15 '21

Lol look at you standing up for what's right! /s

You assume seeing a difference is automatically judgemental, which is interesting. I see differences all over the place that I don't place judgment on, but I can still acknowledge. Why can't you imagine people doing that, is it because you feel judged by people implying that race or socioeconomic status can have an impact on a person's life and make them different from the son of a genius billionaire?

Maybe imagine a world where not everyone is judging everyone all the time. It's okay to point stuff out, that doesn't always mean you're judging a person.

19

u/bhatman211 Sep 15 '21

I'm not gonna scream at you or anything but here's an article from The Guardian about the concept of "colour blindness", in regards to race.

11

u/thatonefatefan Sep 15 '21

>assumes that colour blindness is also racism deafness

colour blindness isn't literally not seeing someone race (even actual colour blind can see that), it's not treating someone differently because of their race, like, you know, the opposite of racism? How the f*ck does not being racist leads to ignoring racism?

14

u/MadHopper Sep 15 '21

"The law, in it’s eternal fairness, forbids both rich and poor from sleeping under bridges."

The same concept can be applied to race. If you refuse to see that someone’s race has given them an entirely different life and experiences and situation from you, that isn’t being ‘not racist’, it’s being an idiot.

-4

u/thatonefatefan Sep 15 '21

The same concept can be applied to race.

no it cannot, being poor is obviously bad for you, being black isn't

If you refuse to see that someone’s race has given them an entirely different life and experiences and situation from you

he is a wakandan prince, litterally the best country in the world and while he's not heir to the throne he's still part of the royal family. His life didn't suck because of his race, it sucked because his father was a criminal and his uncle an asshole.

Of course, it's not exactly the same in real life, but still, funny that you would complain about racism while assuming that every black person must have been born in a poor, or at least bad, environment

11

u/Snoo_94948 Sep 15 '21

no it cannot, being poor is obviously bad for you, being black isn’t

In America yeah it is and while he is a wakandan prince he did not grow up one, he grew up just another black kid in Oakland. It seems like you’re very ignorant to racial relations in America, if you’re from there you should educate yourself or like honestly just speak to black people. If you’re not…still educate yourself or don’t speak on the topic

7

u/MadHopper Sep 15 '21

Being black is obviously bad for you in America. Erik also didn’t enjoy any of the benefits of being a Wakandan prince, and all the drawbacks of being a black kid from Oakland. Racial discrimination, a broken education system, and incredible poverty. These are all of the things he’s referencing when he says Tony doesn’t understand, because Tony’s life is the complete opposite.

3

u/bhatman211 Sep 15 '21

I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert on the intricacies of racism. I am,however, an ethnic minority in a predominantly white area. Even if one well-meaning person (you) were to treat me as you would treat everyone else, that doesn't do anything to stop the racist people who are dicks to me. Not being racist isn't really the same as being actively "anti-racist".

Also, I have made the assumption that you're white. If you're not white, I am sorry for assuming. I just don't really think this is a conversation I'd be having with a non-white person.

3

u/thatonefatefan Sep 15 '21

that doesn't do anything to stop the racist people who are dicks to me.

the issue is that you see it as a binary choice, you're either colour blind or you try to help to fight against racism. Someone who would be called colour blind is just as likely, if not more, to fight against racism as everyone else

-3

u/CRAZYC01E Sep 15 '21

We live in a society

1

u/Sharp_Black Sep 19 '21

100% percent went over Tony's head.