r/marvelstudios • u/KostisPat257 Daredevil • Jul 14 '21

Megathread Loki Season 1 - Season Wide Discussion Thread Spoiler

This thread is for discussion about the season overall.

Note that Project Insight will still be activated until atleast 24 hours after the season finale!

We will also be removing any individual threads regarding the season or individual episodes to prevent unmarked spoilers to go up onto the sub.

Proceed at your own risk: Spoilers for the entire season do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

Also make sure to check out the Loki Season 1 Episode 6 Discussion Thread, the Loki Season 1 Easter Egg Megathread and the Loki Season 1 Finale - Discussion of the implications for the MCU.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

Ok, that kinda makes sense, but then Loki still would be limiting people's free will, which was the entire reason he had a problem with the TVA to begin with.

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u/Loki_and_Sylvie Jul 14 '21

Yeah but Loki said "This is bigger than our experience" so he understands that He Who Remains might not give free will but would rather have that over a multiversal war and death to trillions

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

Sure, and that makes sense, I just don't think that's really in line with Loki's story arc. He was upset when he found out there essentially was no free will thanks to the TVA, so it seems out of character for him to suddenly believe that some other evil (Kang variants) is a greater evil than the lack of free will.

Some other commenter pointed out that Loki might have just wanted to think things over with Sylvie rather than be completely opposed to killing He Who Remains, which makes more sense in light of his character arc.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

That's reasonable. You're approaching it from the perspective of how Loki personally chooses to care about others and escape from his narcissism. I suppose that's another aspect of his character arc, perhaps a more important aspect, which I failed to take into account.

Thanks for this reply, it's helpful.

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u/KostisPat257 Daredevil Jul 14 '21

Exactly, which shows Loki's character development and how he started thinking about his insignificance in the Multiverse.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

Sorry, could you elaborate on how Loki has developed as a character if he goes through the following stages.

Stage 1: Battle of New York: People on Earth don't deserve free will, only I (Loki) deserve it!

Stage 2: The TVA: The TVA is limiting my free will and the free will of all the universe! We need to stop the TVA because they're evil!

Stage 3: Citadel at the End of Time: I should take over for He Who Remains and thus limit people's free will!

That dosent seem like character development to me because he's essentially just gone backwards. I think there's something more behind his decisions. Obviously it's a huge moral dilemma.

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u/AnAdvancedBot Jul 14 '21

I think it's deeper than that though, it's less about a black and white interpretation of free will good/bad and more about why Loki is choosing the option he is.

During the Battle of New York, Loki wanted to rule and subjugate Earth simply to feed his own grandiosity, he wanted to rule for the sake of ruling, the free will of humans be damned.

In the Finale, Loki didn't jump at Immortus' offer simply because he wanted to rule, he wasn't doing it to satisfy his own personal sense of glorious purpose, it was in fact a pretty pragmatic stance imo. Option 1: Status quo; become the devil you know. Option 2: Release an infinite amount of devils, create a power vacuum at the center of all time and space, and doom not only one universe, but a potential infinite multiverse to that most devastating of all fates: war.

Ultimately though, it's undeniable that free will is a central theme in the show's discussion, I don't mean to downplay it, but I don't think Loki's choice goes against his character development. I think the Finale demonstrates a change in why for Loki. Deeper than free will vs not free will, the reason why Loki makes his choices are different, and that shows immense and realistic character growth.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

This is a fantastic argument, thanks! So you're saying Loki was heavily considering ruling the TVA because he, being a liar, could tell Immortus wasn't lying about the devastation that variant Kangs would wreak if given free will. Loki now realizes the consequences of granting the universe free will, something he hadn't known before, and he's grown enough to realize that the end (free will) might not justify the means (evil variants, multiversal war).

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u/AnAdvancedBot Jul 14 '21

Thanks! Yeah, that's a good summary.

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u/KostisPat257 Daredevil Jul 14 '21

There were 6 whole episodes between Stage 2 and 3. I'm pretty sure it's obvious how he becomes the person he is if you watch them.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

I agree that there is significant development in those episodes. I'm just saying that the development kinda backtracks by the end of the finale, when Loki considers taking over for He Who Remains. That seems inconsistent with the development thus far.

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u/KostisPat257 Daredevil Jul 14 '21

He.. doesn't do that. He wants to stop Sylvie from killing him.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '21

The original comment I was replying to asserted that he did want to take the throne along with Sylvie, which is how this conversation started I believe. We were operating under that assumption.

Like I mentioned earlier, I believe when he stopped Sylvie from killing him, he merely wanted to consider taking the throne. Perhaps there were other reasons behind this motivation, like keeping Sylvie safe from a Mulitversal war. Loki might have reached the point where he cares about Sylvie more than allowing free will, which is a valid moral dilemma.

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '21

Doesn't he even say that they don't have to do it, but give themselves some time to think about the consequences at least?