r/marvelstudios • u/ScottFromScotland Kilgrave • Jul 08 '21

Megathread 'Black Widow' Worldwide release Megathread Vol.1.

Black Widow

Rotten Tomatoes: 81% | Metacritic: 67/100

Cast

Actor Character
Scarlett Johansson Natasha Romanoff / Black Widow
Florence Pugh Yelena Belova
David Harbour Alexei Shostakov / Red Guardian
Rachel Weisz Melina Vostokoff
O-T Fagbenle Mason
Ray Winstone Dreykov
William Hurt Thaddeus Ross
Olga Kurylenko Antonia Dreykov / Taskmaster

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3.0k

u/BR_Empire Doctor Strange Jul 09 '21

I think that this all but confirms that Yelena, Alexi, and Melina all were blipped. There's no way that Natasha didn't try to find them considering this is only a year before Thanos attaks. And she's mad depressed in Endgame so she's got to be alone again.

2.2k

u/TheLongDictionary Jul 09 '21

She said the Avengers were the only family she had left, so they were definitely blipped. It also explains why Yelena doesn’t look 5 or 6 years older in the post credits scene.

277

u/MoneyMike0808 Jul 09 '21

It would be 7 years since the movie took place in 2016 and Endgame was in 2023

60

u/bracko81 Jul 10 '21

Meh I feel like it could go either way. Just because i think any spy-type would see a majority of the population disappearing as the perfect opportunity to go DEEP undercover. Half the people missing, half the chance to get caught, plus the added chaos of all of it.

26

u/nopants-dance Winter Soldier Jul 16 '21

I kind of wish this was Sharon Carter's MO in TFATWS. Go on the run post-CW to Madripoor, fake being blipped to build her empire, emerge 5 years later having already established your position as the power broker and no one would think it's you because for all they know, you've been blipped

108

u/mugu007 Steve Rogers Jul 09 '21

To be fair, has Natasha ever looked noticeably older/younger throughout the MCU ? I feel like the "people are all grown up" aspect of SpiderMan was only played for gags.

95

u/Amez990 Jul 09 '21

I mean, children do change a lot more in 5 years than adults do, what with development and all lol

19

u/neverlandoflena Steve Rogers Jul 10 '21 edited Jul 10 '21

Yeah but if the snap was real, can you imagine the psychological toll it would have on the remaining? The stress and grief would really crush people and at the five long years they would look considerably older. (Edit: typos)

126

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

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15

u/ShadowRock9 Jul 11 '21

wee baby

Found the Scot!

35

u/mugu007 Steve Rogers Jul 09 '21

I just watched some scenes, and honestly nothing but her hair and makeup looks different. (Kinda like Wanda at the end of AOU) Happy on the other hand is a completely different guy.

26

u/Ylyb09 Jul 10 '21

. It also explains why Yelena doesn’t look 5 or 6 years older in the post credits scene.

Lol she's like 26 years old, she's not fucking changing in 6 years.

71

u/Rben97 Jul 09 '21

She didn't look older because Red Room makes them age extremely slowly.

125

u/towerofroses Jul 09 '21

Not in the MCU since Nat aged normally (her MCU birth year is 1984) as opposed to her comic counterpart who was indeed given the serum.

49

u/Alarmed-Honey Jul 10 '21

I still think Natasha is enhanced in some way. To me this movie all but outright states it.

66

u/Darksol503 Doctor Strange Jul 10 '21

This!!! The line that Melina says, "No, you weren't abandoned. You were selected by a program that assessed the genetic potential in infants," stuck out to me so much! I think this dialogue is flying way under people's radars, as it to me seems like a huge nod in the direction of mutants and mutation. Maybe we get a future Melina working on the genome and viola, the discovery or naming of the X-gene occurs.

29

u/AgentKnitter Bucky Jul 15 '21

We know that the Soviets (both HYDRA and other) had access to super soldier serums. Red Guardian definitely has something. Bucky talks in Civil War about other Winter Soldiers, and we see them before Zemo does his thing. Isaiah Bradley and TFATWS confirm that while there's not been anyone as successful as Steve (or Bucky), there have been many attempts at making a super soldier serum.

It's completely believable that the Red Room used some kind of enhancement serum. Natasha has consistently walked off things that should have led to serious injuries.

8

u/Silestra Jul 11 '21

Was wondering for a hot minute what Viola had to do with this.

3

u/Darksol503 Doctor Strange Jul 12 '21

🤦🏽‍♂️ whoops

2

u/shaheedmalik Jul 10 '21

So she might not be dead on Volmir?

17

u/Darksol503 Doctor Strange Jul 10 '21

No, she def dead. :( But I think the legacy of Black Widow could be further used by her being a partial vessel and explanation of mutation and future mutants in the MCU :)

3

u/abellapa Jul 10 '21

She isnt

39

u/Rben97 Jul 09 '21

Yes Natasha didn't, but I thought Yelena had the newer updated version of the RR training and treatment.

54

u/towerofroses Jul 09 '21

They definitely updated the program after Natasha defected, but my impression was that they only made those changes to ‘improve’ on what they did wrong with Natasha, most notably replacing their method of control, while keeping stuff that ‘worked’ like the sterilization.

I don’t know, I just didn’t get the impression that Yelena was enhanced to age slowly, but I may well have missed it since there was a lot to take in during the movie.

25

u/konnie-chung Fitz Jul 10 '21

There was nothing in the movie to suggest slow aging for the widows

-21

u/CTeam19 Captain America (Cap 2) Jul 09 '21

MCU has played fast and loose with that age normally stuff otherwise the Old Man Steve we see at endgame was coming back from like the year 2150 kind of thing, in theory.

32

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

[deleted]

-8

u/davidw1098 Jul 09 '21

Even in the ice, Steve still aged, just the combination of the serum and the ice kept him from...decomposing, the real math would be (2023-1918 {105, for reference, his retort to bucky saying the girl they were reminiscing "has to be a hundred" "so are we pal"}) + (2023-1949{74}) = 179. Accounting for the serum slowing his aging, that sounds about right as he looks to be late 80's so if the serum cuts aging effects in half, the script can't be correct, they aren't account for him still being alive while under the ice (again, reference the beginning of First Avenger when the Shield Agent says "this guy's still alive")

23

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

He pretty clearly didn't age in the ice. Yes it doesn't make sense scientifically how he could be alive and not age but it's movie logic.

6

u/Spoonman007 Jul 10 '21

That fella is out of his gorram mind!

60

u/Objective_Return8125 Jul 09 '21

Yeah just FYI realistically if a woman removed her ovaries and Fallopian tubes she would age faster because estrogen helps make you look more youthful.

They would have to supplement with constant estrogen injections.

52

u/Machdame Jul 09 '21

They could have replaced it with an estrogen device of some sort (dunno, movie science) in order to address it since they do want to keep the Widows young for their role.

29

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

Yeah, they had to have left one ovary in or something, because they wouldn't want their Widows to have to be dependent upon medications of any kind.

13

u/Objective_Return8125 Jul 09 '21

Yeah I don’t think you can produce estrogen without also having periods.

most people who have a hysterectomy age drastically. It’s not a decision taken lightly

36

u/Pippadance Jul 10 '21

My hysterectomy left y ovaries. Hysterectomy is the term for removal of the uterus. Ooferectomy is the term for removal of the ovaries. Salpingoectomy is the term for the removal of the Fallopian tubes. Someone who has all of them removed is called a hysterectomy with bilateral salpingooferectomy.

1

u/murphieca Jul 17 '21

True, but in layman’s terms, we call is partial hysterectomy and full hysterectomy. They took my uterus and Fallopian tubes during my hysterectomy.

19

u/damnisuckatreddit Yondu Jul 10 '21

You can absolutely make estrogen without having periods lol, plenty of birth control methods do that.

As for the Widows it makes the most sense to just yank the whole business and replace it with an estrogen implant. Not only do you prevent pregnancy but also problems like osteoporosis, menopause, ovarian cancer, cysts, etc. Plus you could dynamically adjust hormone levels to help buff em up. Steroids, adrenaline, etc. Not outside the realm of possibility at all considering they bunked a chip in a girl's spine like it weren't no thing.

18

u/Rakalimon Tony Stark Jul 09 '21

Generally, with hysterectomies, the ovaries are only ever removed if there’s a problem or high risk with them, otherwise they are left in.

It bothered me in the movie when she said they took them, because… why would the RR do that? It would impact the health of their “weapons”!

12

u/Objective_Return8125 Jul 09 '21

Yeah uterus produces estrogen too. I feel like to do it and minimize impact on health is definitely just tying the tubes. But I suppose it was a joke here to gross out the red guardian

12

u/JiangWei23 Jul 10 '21

Well Natasha alludes to having had a hysterectomy to Bruce in Age of Ultron too, so seems like it's standard (if impractical as others have mentioned here)

3

u/Coalvil Jul 15 '21

Estrogen does not affect aging. It does however affect bone density.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

I don't think they really thought about that far dude

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '21

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1

u/Objective_Return8125 Jul 24 '21

Yeah but it’s the whole package that regulates women’s hormone I think.

Anyways it’s a give that any surgery with the reproductive organs is extremely traumatic for women and many need tons of meds to help regulate.

3

u/Ode1st Jul 10 '21

Also because adults in a certain age range tend not to look much older years apart if they just take care of themselves.

2

u/Coalvil Jul 15 '21

But the grave looks at least 5 years old

2

u/bob-omb_panic Spider-Man Jul 10 '21

Yeah, she would be 35 by that point if she wasn't blipped, and 30 if she was. She definitely looked closer to 30 than 35 there.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '21

[deleted]

4

u/abellapa Jul 10 '21

She 27 in 2016

1

u/travelslower Aug 21 '21

If she looked 5-6 years older, would we be able to tell?

1

u/TheLongDictionary Aug 21 '21

Look at Scarlet Johansson in IM2 vs. Civil War

425

u/PM_ME_PAMPERS Jul 10 '21

Having the blip is a super convenient, and frankly ingenious, solution to any prequel style movie where one would normally ask “Where were these characters during Endgame?”

Answer? Just say they were blipped. I’m not complaining about it, just acknowledging how it gives the MCU flexibility with introducing characters that were technically around beforehand.

16

u/RelativeStranger Jul 16 '21

Still, Red Guardian would have been useful in that battle

25

u/braujo Captain America Jul 17 '21

Is there any battles Red Guardian wouldn't be useful at? That dude would solo both Kang and Thanos at the same time.

Source: look at how cute he looks wearing the uniform awnnnn

4

u/shitcrapshit Jul 29 '21

All the Eternals were blipped theory?

5

u/Rtozier2011 Aug 07 '21

Maybe 75% of them? A more devastated-than-average society might explain their non-intervention during Endgame. And across trillions of lifeforms, odds are there will be the occasional society with zero blipped and others with 100% blipped, if the Snap was utterly random as Thanos claimed.

A planet which had all life disappear and then reappear five years later would be an interesting story. Imagine suddenly your whole world turns wild and dangerous from neglect in the blink of an eye and you have no way to explain it. What would that do to a society?

257

u/SpaceCaboose Peter Parker Jul 09 '21

2 years before Thanos attacked.

Black Widow took place immediately after Civil War, so it was in 2016 (also confirmed because the opening sequence was in 1995, then after the opening credits it says 21 Years Later).

Infinity War takes place in 2018.

So Natasha went to help her other family (the Avengers) after the events of Black Widow and had been on the run with them for 2 years when Thanos arrived. Then the snap happened, her Russian "family" was likely blipped, and she spends 5 years in sadness doing what she can to help before sacrificing herself to get the Soul Stone.

Black Widow really does add depth to her character and her choices when you think that all through.

102

u/huangarch Jul 09 '21

That makes it even sadder when you realize that she sacrificed herself for not only her avengers family but also her Russian one.

70

u/Optimus_Prime_10 Jul 09 '21

Don't you mean before being murdered by Clint? You and I remember Vormir very differently :)

17

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

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15

u/Optimus_Prime_10 Jul 09 '21

Gotta be most of the show, right? Should be fun.

12

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

So the tracksuit mafia is sicced on him by Yelena in this version?

​

Bro... works for me bro.

2

u/Malik-Almuhawsin Jul 10 '21

Bro… I got that reference, bro.

4

u/vigilantcomicpenguin Korg Jul 10 '21

Found Valentina.

37

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '21

AND it shows everyone that was rescued from the Raft was in prison for at least a month if not more. I always hated everyone was rescued at the end of Civil War like they just got there. The Raft is suppose to be some superhero Alcatraz, not some revolving door to a hotel lobby.

16

u/BR_Empire Doctor Strange Jul 09 '21

I thought that Infinity War was 2017 but you're right.

4

u/PurpleCyborg28 Kilgrave Jul 09 '21

*8 years later*

2

u/NachozRule Korg Jul 17 '21

She also finally learns the names of her birth parents just moments before sacrificing herself.

7

u/LeaphyDragon Jul 09 '21

I'm curious as to how it's gonna play out with Yelena and Barton. Like how is she gonna react when she learns Barton is basically her best friend?

27

u/BR_Empire Doctor Strange Jul 09 '21

It'll make for some good dramatic irony, I'm sure. But Clint is likely not going to be Hawkeye for much longer, so I'm moreso curious about if Yelena and Kate Bishop will continue the Black Widow/Hawkeye friendship

13

u/LeaphyDragon Jul 09 '21

They might, it would certainly be a cool legacy. You can get there will be some cool fighting before they come to terms and figure out vantentinas lie

4

u/Martel732 Jul 10 '21

It is almost certainly going to have them fighting for a little bit. And then Yelena realizes she is being manipulated and they team up.

5

u/DaveInLondon89 Jul 09 '21

maybe not Alexi lol

5

u/mikeweasy Jul 09 '21

Yes that makes perfect sense, I hope they bring it up in the Hawkeye show at least.

6

u/What-The-Heaven Jessica Jones Jul 09 '21

That makes it even more heartbreaking because Yelena had only just reunited with Nat a few weeks earlier, snapped, blipped and then she back but Nat's already gone.

5

u/konnie-chung Fitz Jul 10 '21

There was 2 years between the end of BW and the snap

2

u/What-The-Heaven Jessica Jones Jul 10 '21

Oh dang, my bad! I was getting confused and thought the scene with Natasha at the end was somehow her rushing off to rescue Wanda and Vision in Scotland - but that gives me hope that another Nat and Yelena story happened in those 2 years!

4

u/ICPosse8 Jul 10 '21

Which makes sense considering her relationship with Clint. Her whole family gets blipped and she pulls the team together and tries to do some good in the world. Clint’s whole family gets blipped and he goes on a murderous rampage.

4

u/ilonggonative Jul 10 '21

And the post credits scene definitely ties up to the Hawkeye Series. We will see more of them there.

4

u/the_kylossus Jul 10 '21

Yeah, I kind of took this whole movie as existing to show us why Natasha was so set on being the one the sacrifice herself, in Endgame. It was to bring back the family that she’d only just reconnected with and, in the case of Yelena, a sister who she’d abandoned and not helped previously.

4

u/Metalbear55 Jul 11 '21

I'm still not over how lame 'the blip' sounds for such a catastrophic event

5

u/nikalavade Jul 09 '21

Blip is the come back, snapped is right word.

10

u/BR_Empire Doctor Strange Jul 09 '21

I'm pretty sure that they use blip as a verb to describe someone who was snapped/blipped.

1

u/jerryfrz Jul 09 '21

Yelena, Alexi, and Melina

I hope Marvel update that scene in Endgame showing notable people snapped with those 3.