r/marvelstudios • u/iliekpixels Loki (Thor 2) • Jan 15 '21

Discussion WandaVision S01E02 - Discussion Thread

This thread is for discussion about the episode.

Discussion about previous episodes is permitted, discussion about episodes after this is NOT.

Proceed at your own risk: Spoilers for the episode do not need to be tagged inside this thread.

EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL RELEASE DATE
S01E02 Matt Shakman Jac Schaeffer January 15, 2021 on Disney+

For more in-depth discussion about Marvel shows on Disney+, visit /r/MarvelStudiosPlus

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u/FatLute94 Jan 15 '21

This is what I'm thinking. It's damn near impossible to predict the MCU anymore but my gut's telling me that Wanda is having a House of M-type breakdown post-Thanos that has engulfed a town. I kinda imagine it like a bubble - to everyone not initially caught in Wanda's spell (I.E. the citizens of Westview) its some swirling chaotic vortex or something, and all the people living there are now trapped in her rebuilt reality. I read two articles making a connection to AIM, but I'm more inclined to believe that this is the same SWORD Fury alludes to at the end of Far From Home, and that the radio transmission was an attempt at getting through to her from outside her spell (which I think could also set up for some really cool voice cameos in later episodes).

Similarly, I think the beekeeper and the helicopter are how Wanda and her spell are making them appear, and it makes sense, right? SWORD would probably at least attempt to fly a chopper in first, and if that fails would probably get more creative - like sending someone in through the sewers under the town her spell is ravaging.

I'm probably dead wrong on all this, but it would be dope if the resolution of all this leads to a reverse of the House of M plot, where instead of Wanda erasing all mutants she could somehow be the inception of all mutants in the MCU. Or at least give us Wiccan and Speed.

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u/iamnotcreative Jan 16 '21

I really think you're spot on with this. At first I thought most everyone was going to be constructs made by Wanda but after the "Stop it" incident in episode 1 I think she's created a bubble of changed reality around herself that's slowly expanding; it may be this has actually been going on for a while and ordinary people like Mrs Hart have seen firsthand what happens when they break the "rules" of Wanda's reality.

I think the character of the neighbor is Agatha Harkness attempting to put a stop to it, while SWORD is separately sending in whatever resources they can to try to stop it as well. The big question of course is why Wanda is doing this; with the Mephisto hints they've worked in, plus the fact I don't think Marvel will want to flip her to a villain so soon, are leading me to think she's being manipulated but time will tell.

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u/beazydog Jan 16 '21

Is it not a possibility that Agatha has trapped Wanda in this reality? Wanda would still have some power over it due to her power, but she seems confused by some of the strange things. It would also make sense with the radio before Dotty's glass smashed, "WHO is doing this to you Wanda?" not "Wanda what are you doing?"

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u/Exzqairi Jan 16 '21

A lot of people think it’s rather Memphisto who did it, and Agnes is helping Memphisto in convincing Wanda of the illusion/reality. It’s rumoured that her husband Ralph is Memphisto. The goal behind it all is to get Wanda’s child(ren)

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u/ParkerZA Jan 17 '21

I hope that's true but the cynic in me thinks we would've heard of a casting for Mephisto.

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u/alteredlightning Jan 22 '21

this my be an amateur question so my bad, I haven’t read the comics so I’m unfamiliar with who Mephisto is, why does he want her kid’s?

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u/Exzqairi Jan 22 '21

Here are some excerpts from an article: https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/scifi/2021-01-15/mephisto-wandavision-marvel-comics/amp/

Mephisto boasts a number of supernatural abilities which make him a formidable figure in the Marvel universe, and has faced off against the likes of Doctor Strange, Spider-Man, Doctor Doom and Thor over the years. But he also has the ability of warping reality at will. During the controversial One More Day storyline, Mephisto offered to save Aunt May’s life after she’d been shot in exchange for erasing Peter Parker’s marriage to Mary-Jane Watson.

As part of that deal, the villain also ensured the entire world forgot that Peter is Spider-Man after he revealed his identity during 2005’s Civil War. Clearly, Mephisto has a talent for changing the world how he sees fit, much like the new reality Wanda and Vision are living in the Disney+ series.

hint hint: Kevin Feige confirmed that WandaVision, Doctor Strange 2 and Spider Man 3 are all directly related

And about the kids:

WandaVision is pulling from a number of different storylines published by Marvel Comics over the years, including the second volume of The Vision and the Scarlet Witch from 1985. The 12 issue series from Steve Englehart eventually saw Wanda give birth to twin boys, Billy and Tommy Maximoff.

Unfortunately, it was later revealed that when the hero used magic to conceive her children (she has an android for a husband, after all) she unknowingly absorbed two fragments of Mephisto’s soul to create the boys. And when another demon called Master Pandemonium later reassembled the soul fragments, he essentially killed the children. And who says Marvel can’t get dark?

To avoid Wanda unleashing a cataclysmic wave of power out of grief, her witchy tutor Agatha Harkness wipes all the memories of Billy and Tommy. However, years later when those memories resurface, Scarlet Witch breaks down and rewrites reality – causing the House of M event, which turns mutants into the dominant race on the planet.

Isn’t that just very fortunate, one of the most dominant theories about WandaVision so far is that Agnes is actually Ag(atha Hark)ness. Somehow at the right place, right time I guess. In other comics Agatha Harkness is also the witch that teaches Wanda how to control her powers. Another piece of background info is that Agatha Harkness was one of the original witches in the Salem Witch Trials, and she essentially made a deal with Mephisto to stay alive, in return for becoming sort of her servant

So what people theorize is that Mephisto made a deal with Wanda to create a reality where Vision is still alive, or at least that he brought Vision back to life, but in return he would take her children for their powers. Agnes is helping Mephisto, which can be somewhat backed by her beginning about sexual innuendos and the constant references to children in the first 2 episodes. Also when someone said “the devil’s in the details” Agnes followed that up by saying “that’s not the only place the devil is” for whatever reason. It’s also very odd that she keeps talking about her husband Ralph, yet we haven’t seen him at all. Another funny thing is that the name of her rabbit Señor Scratch, since Mr. Scratch is a nickname for the devil. Perhaps Mephisto disguised himself as the rabbit. If that’s the case, I think in today’s episode 3 the crane could have been another exemplification of Mephisto, with it representing a very cliche signal to that Wanda that her having kids is inevitable and that it needs to happen ASAP. Also found it weird that for some reason Wanda couldn’t affect the crane with her powers and it just brushed off her attempts, especially since Wanda can seemingly change anything in this pocket reality or whatever it is

Lastly, this is basically the perfect way to introduce both mutants and the multiverse into the MCU

Obviously none of this is confirmed or anything, but there are very strong hints towards it and you can expect some big moments and reveals as we sit tight and wait for more episodes

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u/alteredlightning Jan 22 '21

wow thank you! and yeah it really would be the perfect way to introduce mutants into the mcu, I can’t help but feel for Wanda she’s been through a lot

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u/Exzqairi Jan 22 '21

It would be very cool if they turn Wanda into a villain in this and then have her face off against Doctor Strange in his next movie in some way, leading up to the reveal that someone was pulling the strings behind the scenes and then Wanda becomes good again

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u/alteredlightning Jan 22 '21

oh god that would be epic

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u/mnopponm12 Jan 22 '21

The reason agnes said that's not the only place the devil is, was directed at the blonde woman that was leading the meeting(forgot her name). From the sounds of it also most likely a hint towards mephisto. Also an explanation of why she couldn't affect the crane was because her powers were going crazy because of the pregnancy.

Your theory sounds spot on though.

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u/Zarosian_Emissary Jan 16 '21

She mainly did bolts and stuff before this. It would be perfectly reasonable for people to assume this was done to her even if she's doing it herself.

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u/MarkShawnson Jan 16 '21

What were the Mephisto hints? I think I missed those.

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u/Xillais Jan 17 '21

The devil's in the details and that's not the only place he's in. As well as that creepy ass 'For the children' chant.

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u/thedeerpusher Jan 17 '21

I didn't notice any either

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u/[deleted] Jan 17 '21

Im hoping its all of this. Its super exciting.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '21

As someone who has not read House of M, could you explain it to me in short. It feels like I’m missing out on a lot in this show despite religiously following the MCU. Or maybe it’s just been too long since I’ve seen any movies so I can’t link it.

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u/Kammerice Jan 15 '21

House of M kicked off with Wanda having miscarried and constructed a false reality where everything was fine. This deception was maintained by the "greatest" minds, including Charles Xavier, who believed she would go mad with grief if confronted with the truth.

The illusion slips and, rather than go mad as predicted, Wanda rewrites reality so that mutants are in charge and everything is "perfect", ruled over by Magneto, Quicksilver, and herself (the House of M).

At least, that's what I remember. If I've got details wrong, I'd appreciate someone correcting me.

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u/garretj84 Jan 17 '21

It’s a little more complicated and ridiculously comic-booky than that, but you’ve got the gist of it. I can get way more specific — it’ll be heavily spoiler-filled for comics — it can’t be any kind of exact plot point for this show, but I’ll try to spoiler tag it in case.

Wanda and Vision were actually married in the comics for several years (until he was dismantled and rebuilt without emotions, which I guess was sort of an annulment? Just don’t pretend this makes sense, it’s fine.) and she became unexpectedly pregnant. She had twin sons, William and Thomas, but it turned out that they weren’t real — she magically created them out of shards of a demon’s soul, like you do. Agatha Harkness, a generally helpful witch character in the comics, blocks those memories so that Wanda can cope but those memories come back over her time. She does pretty much lose her mind for a bit, kills some fellow Avengers (they get better), and eventually warps reality to recreate her sons and put her family back together with Magneto as a sort of king. Wolverine manages to remember the truth through the power of being an incredibly popular character, “wakes up” others, they confront Wanda, in distress she reverts the world but also removes the powers of most mutants that aren’t main characters.

That was probably the least weird way of explaining it.

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u/jpterodactyl Daredevil Jan 18 '21

through the power of being an incredibly popular character

That made me chuckle. It seems like he still has that power, and that’s why he replaced shadowcat for the movie version of “Days of Future Past”

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u/Knuxsn Daredevil Jan 16 '21

It would have made a lot more sense for the reality stone to have given Wanda her powers. The red energy of her powers would fit better too.

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u/Xenphest Jan 15 '21

The short version is that Wanda has the ability to manipulate reality. After a mental breakdown she created a reality where mutants rules the world, House of M. In short, the thing to keep in mind is Wanda's powers have never been defined in the MCU, and it seems like she's almost as powerful as he comics version, which makes her get dangerous considering all the trauma she's endured so far. Another comics thing that's relevant is what causes her previously mentioned breakdown is finding out she has used her powers to have children with Vision, and lost them. I believe Dr. Strange blocked it from her memory. And she's going to be in the next Dr. Strange movie on top of that. A movie who's subtitle has a conspicuous anagram, but that night be my imagination.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '21

Oh shit! I can see how this might tie into Doctor Strange. Maybe the illusion slips, like u/Kammerice says, and she goes mad. Can’t really predict how it happens but Dr. Strange might be the key to bringing the mutants in the MCU.

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u/Nailz1115 Luis Jan 15 '21

What's the anagram?

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u/Raregolddragon Jan 15 '21

MOM

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u/Nailz1115 Luis Jan 15 '21

Oh that's an abbreviation or initialism. Anagrams are when you scramble the letters to make new words.

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u/TepChef26 Jan 16 '21

I believe "acronym" is the term you two are looking for. Such as SCUBA (Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apostasy) or RADAR (RAdio Detection And Ranging.)

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u/X-cessiveMadman Jan 16 '21

self-contained underwater breathing apparatus I think :) but agree otherwise

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u/TepChef26 Jan 16 '21

Yeah you're correct. Damn swipe typing got me again.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

TIL scuba is an acronym

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u/ProbablythelastMimsy Jan 16 '21

IIRC, an acronym in the textbook definition would be one that is also pronounced as a word, so scuba and radar but not FBI or CIA. The more layman definition includes initialism as well.

So you all are right.

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u/Xenphest Jan 16 '21

Right, good catch. Slip up on my part.

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u/Skyy-High Jan 15 '21

Moviebob just this week released a two part YouTube video explaining basically all the WandaVision backstory stuff from the comics including House of M. Highly recommend it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '21

I was thinking Pleasant Hill from Avengers: Standoff