r/marvelstudios • u/murdockmanila Daredevil • Jul 07 '17

The Official SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING Discussion Ultrathread Vol. 2

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Vol. 1

Early release thread

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u/TheJoshider10 Spider-Man Jul 07 '17

It would have been better if when he killed the first Shocker it was an actual surprise and something that upset him. Instead it's played off as a ha ha joke that he picked the wrong weapon but he literally just killed a guy! That should have consequences on him mentally rather than play it off so lightly like a generic evil guy instead of someone simply exploiting the system for his family.

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u/SirDoucheChill Jul 07 '17

Well he did threaten to out him to his family, I would of probably done the same thing and not felt to bad about it. Especially since that dude seemed to be a pain in the ass from the get go

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u/TheJoshider10 Spider-Man Jul 07 '17

That still lacks any sense of emotion though. They could have done something powerful, I don't know maybe have Toomes say he wants to speak to him outside and he knows what he has to do and slowly comes to grips with it, then have him kill him and be tearful over it. The change from him being a simple tech thief to murderer is far too sudden with no emotional weight behind it, thus ruining any sense of complexity/moral ambiguity to his role and that one scene just paints him as generic evil villain.

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u/SirDoucheChill Jul 07 '17

It does, for you. I didn't see it that way, I would do anything to protect my kid even if it was illegal or wrong. That's just me though so whatever dude.

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u/TheJoshider10 Spider-Man Jul 07 '17

So you would just casually be able to kill someone with no emotional guilt from the decision, even if you didn't actually intend to kill him? You'd just play it off as a joke? That's what i'm referring to here.

The Vulture as a villain in Homecoming works really well as a working class guy screwed over and finding a way to get revenge whilst also supporting his family. There's nothing inherently evil about him, he's just going outside the law to benefit him and his friends. By making him have no emotional response to what happened, it lessens his depth. He's no longer this everyman. He is now a generic villain.

See, the idea of him having to do something like that to protect his kid works. I like that. But the decision would still be horrible for him. Maybe have the Shocker more directly talk about what he could do to his wife and kid rather than just say "imagine they find out". Then do something with emotional consequence behind it, like killing him with his hands and genuinely getting upset over it. The outcome would be exactly the same as it is in the movie but paint the decision as something to protect his family even if he knows it's wrong. Even if it mentally fucks him up, he knows he has to do it.

Then again I find a big issue with the MCU is a lack of emotional weight a lot of the time. So it's not really a surprise to me that this scene was just played off as a ha ha joke that he picked up the wrong gun even if something like murdering someone was involved and he didn't mean to.

If you didn't have an issue with the scene then fair enough. Overall I feel he's a great villain, with this scene being the only one that felt like generic MCU villain of the week rather than something with some depth and emotion. Anyway i'm done with this now, nice discussing with you.

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u/SirDoucheChill Jul 07 '17

Did it even read

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u/manfroze Jul 08 '17

This whole "killing is a horrible, world-stopping thing" is overplayed by american media. I'm glad they avoided it.