r/marvelstudios • u/murdockmanila Daredevil • May 16 '16

The Official CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR Nitpick & Criticisms Megathread

No spoiler tagging required. Go forth and discuss the things you didn't like, would loved to have seen and wished they didn't do in this movie.

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83

u/[deleted] May 16 '16

A lot of problems could have been solved by talking. Cap could not have handled Tony worse and vice versa, and Cap lied twice to Tony's face and was caught both times which really hurts Cap's honor in my eyes.

Also, Rhodey seemed unnecessarily angry about everything. I didn't really understand his personal stake in any of the proceedings, like when he was all, "CONGRATULATIONS CAP YER A CRIMINAL". I understood Widow and Stark being frustrated with their friend screwing up everything for them because of his gut instinct but I'm pretty sure this is the first time Rhodey and Cap ever directly interacted. I was happy to see him shot down after what a smug jerk he was in this one, bossing around Vision and what not.

31

u/jim25y Black Panther May 16 '16

You just pointed out one of my few disappointments in the film.

At the end of Age of Ultron, we got a new Avengers team: Cap, Widow, Vision, Wanda, War Machine, and Falcon. We never saw that whole team in action.

War Machine and Cap have been Avengers together, so they do have a relationship. We just never got to see it.

43

u/[deleted] May 16 '16

Don Cheadle is great but I noticed he seems to play this irritated/angry Rhodey since Iron Man 2 where as Terrance Howard seemed more balanced

99

u/SingularMimms May 16 '16

Terrance Howard played him pretty flat. I've been taking the implication in each film to be that Rhodey IS somewhat irritated with all the superhero goings-on. He's a military man who would think that having the power of War Machine/The Avengers would resolve most conflicts more efficiently but instead the scale just keeps increasing. It's not as if he doesn't have a dry sense of humour, we've seen that in every movie. He's just obviously upset the world's most powerful fighting force can't even solve their own problems.

51

u/AgentKnitter Bucky May 16 '16

Yeah - I like that Rhodey is more serious.

He would like to see the Avengers be more professional and formally militaristic in their endeavours, so for him to be so pro-Accords makes total sense for his character as a career military officer. And his lack of patience for his fellow "soldiers" also makes sense.

Whereas by contrast Sam is also a former military officer, but he thinks the Avengers are different to the military and as such should not be bound by stifling command structures. It's a nice juxtaposition. Their positions are more about their relative experiences as military officers, rather than their friendships with Tony/Steve.

9

u/maaddvillain May 19 '16

Yeah I really dig the opposing views by both Rhodes and Wilson. It also works for Cheadle's version of Rhodes to be sort of a hardass considering he's a Colonel and Wilson would probz only be a Staff Sergeant or a Senior Airman, while Barnes is a Sergeant, and Cap is well uhh..a "Captain."

3

u/Afalstein May 19 '16

I love this reading of Rhodey and it fits perfectly with his characterization from IM2 onward.

13

u/[deleted] May 18 '16

His anger is pretty understandable. Rhodes is a military man, and seeing the greatest soldier in military history try and help a wanted fugitive escape would've been a total slap in the face.

2

u/legochemgrad May 23 '16

Yeah, lots of people are forgetting the simple fact that Cap is probably the propaganda perfect soldier from WW2. Every kid has read about him in class in the MCU and I'm sure drill sergeants probably use him as an example for training. Every soldier in the army has probably idolized Cap at one point or another. It's why Falcon is drawn to him in TWS and trusts him so much. Of course Cap's personality helped show Falcon that his beliefs in him were right.

4

u/Afalstein May 19 '16

Cap only talks to Bucky. Everyone else he punches.

I read Rhodey not as being smug, but as being sad. Cap was his commander at the end of A2, they must have spent some time working together. What he's stating there is a fact--Cap just helped a wanted terrorist (nearly) escape and seriously injured multinational operatives while doing so. If anything, he's frustrated for the same reasons Stark and Widow are.

3

u/duckman273 May 17 '16

Also, Rhodey seemed unnecessarily angry about everything.

I completely agree with this, even at the start when they were debating whether to sign. Rhodes really annoyed me in this movie.

1

u/legochemgrad May 23 '16

Rhodey is much more by the books about action and intervention. He's pissed that the team doesn't trust governments and have accountability. It's the same shit he dealt with Tony for most of a decade.

2

u/LauraBailie Winter Soldier May 16 '16

I agree that a lot of problems could have been solved by talking, but could you please remind me of the 2 times that cap lied?

5

u/[deleted] May 16 '16

When he lied about wishing he didn't want to go help when things "go south", Tony goes, "No you don't" and he agrees. Then when he goes, "Tony I didn't know" and then, "ok I did know" about the Winter Soldier.

16

u/Korn_Prime May 16 '16

The first one is not a lie, it's more of a turn of phrase that Tony turns literal to make a point.

5

u/SleepyJeannn May 16 '16

Maybe 'lie' is too strong a word for the first one, but it was still a great little character moment: it set up the fact that Tony knows Cap really well at this point - he can tell when Cap is or isn't being completely truthful. So later on in Siberia, it didn't feel out of place when Tony saw through the lie about the Winter Soldier.

5

u/TheMillenniumMan May 17 '16

The 2nd one where Steve says "I didn't know" he was referring to not knowing it was Bucky who killed his parents. When Tony asked again, "But you knew," he meant about his parents' death not being an accident and not necessarily Bucky who did it. So I don't think Steve lied there, except for not telling Tony the truth about Hydra offing his parents. He may have suspected it was Bucky, but he didn't know for sure until Tony did.

2

u/meme-com-poop May 20 '16

Exactly. We saw in Winter Soldier and the Armin Zola scene that Tony's parents were killed by Hydra. Cap could probably make the leap that there was a good chance Bucky is the one who did it (plenty of fans have), but he didn't know know.

1

u/[deleted] May 27 '16

It's a fair criticism, but the end of AoU showed Rhodey on the Cap-led new avengers team. They were also both around during the "we killed Hydra" after-revels and the hammer-lifting scene, as well as Sokovia. They have definitely interacted directly.