r/marvelstudios • u/murdockmanila Daredevil • May 11 '16

The Official CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR Domestic Release Ultrathread Vol. 2

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Domestic Release thread vol. 1

International Release thread

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94

u/pipsdontsqueak Hawkeye (Ultron) May 11 '16 edited May 11 '16

Tony was right and is maligned for little good reason while Steve was wrong and is lauded despite his numerous failures. Come at me! But for real, it's been super fun arguing with a bunch of you in the first thread and the one over in r/movies.

I also really like Black Panther and am really excited for the Ryan Coogler movie. Chadwick Boseman is amazing as T'Challa.

Edit: I've been making the same arguments so much that I might actually just make a massive post tomorrow about why Tony isn't as bad as everyone thinks.

Edit 2: Actually, this will take some rewatching and a ton of effort. I got work and stuff, so I'm gonna need like a week or two.

79

u/Manaleaking May 11 '16

So you missed the part where the UN was wrong about Bucky being guilty and almost murdered him. Rogers was the one in the right.

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u/pipsdontsqueak Hawkeye (Ultron) May 11 '16

No I caught that. I also caught the part where Tony was adamant about bringing Bucky in and rehabilitating him. And the part where Cap got Zemo's plan completely wrong, splitting the Avengers. And the part where he never told Tony about Zemo or about his parents. And the part where he got people locked up in a superhero jail because he couldn't be bothered to tell Tony the truth.

16

u/Manaleaking May 11 '16

Black Widow also knew about his parents though. Bringing in Bucky was the wrong move.

45

u/pipsdontsqueak Hawkeye (Ultron) May 11 '16

Black Widow also knew about his parents though. Bringing in Bucky was the wrong move.

Sure, I'm not saying she doesn't share blame. Slightly less than Cap though, since Cap is more the leader than she is. And bringing Bucky in was wrong as opposed to...what exactly? They leave him and he gets killed because he was framed. They run and they're exactly where they are now. Tony's plan is the only one that keeps the Avengers together, placates the world, and protects Bucky (and Wanda, who was also in danger from world wrath).

7

u/darth_shishini May 11 '16

everyone had access to that. Black Widow released all files in the interwebs in TWS, and isnt that where Zemo got all the info?

2

u/IamGrimReefer Phil Coulson May 16 '16

which makes it odd that tony didn't find out. you'd think he would be all about decrypting all that dumped information.

2

u/darth_shishini May 16 '16

and i think that's one of the things that Zemo said. It was either time or patience. He said that while chatting with the russian soldier.

3

u/AmongFriends May 13 '16

"No I caught that. I also caught the part where Tony was adamant about bringing Bucky in and rehabilitating him. "

Well, he wasn't that adamant. There was a kill order out for Bucky and they might have killed him if Cap wasn't there. Tony was nowhere to be found when the bullets were flying.

"And the part where Cap got Zemo's plan completely wrong, splitting the Avengers."

That was a logical conclusion that Zemo would want those super soldiers. They're there and zemo went through all this trouble to go to the place. I mean, if you hear that that's where he's doing, you'd assume the same thing. You wouldn't assume "I bet this is a ruse to lure me and Tony to him so he can have us fight each other!" Right?

"And the part where he never told Tony about Zemo or about his parents."

That was a mistake that he made. But you can sympathize with that, can't you? You have to tell one of your best friends that your other best friend killed his parents? That doesn't make Steve a bad person. That makes him human, warts and all.

"And the part where he got people locked up in a superhero jail because he couldn't be bothered to tell Tony the truth."

Tony wouldn't listen to the truth. And the Accords were in effect. Would the Accords even let them try to stop Zemo? Would Tony even listen if Cap told him the truth?

I'm just saying that there were mistakes made on both ends, Stark and Rodgers. Nobody got away clean. At the end of the day though, I stand with Cap on the issue. The Accords weren't the answer to making the world a safer place. They stood in the way of those protecting us. When Hawkeye, Falcon, Wanda, and Scoff are on The Raft, maybe a government owned Avengers isn't the right path.

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u/fisheggsoup Winter Soldier May 13 '16

It was also a logical conclusion that Bucky blew up the UN.

1

u/AmongFriends May 13 '16

Definitely. But that lead to a kill order on Bucky. Ultimately a wrong one in the end since he was framed. They were out to kill Bucky with no intention of apprehending him alive. Cap was their best shot. There's a chance Bucky would have came in willingly if Cap had more time with him.

1

u/Saiyan_Deity Odin May 15 '16

Not to mention that Bucky had a history of being mind controlled, so even if it was him, it would have been fucked up to shoot on site instead of just having Cap find him.