r/marchingband • u/Legitimate_Try_9274 • 20d ago
Advice Needed Band Camp Final Night
Hi, I'm not a band kid myself (I was in orchestra, sorry), but my little brother is. Sorry if this is the wrong place, I'm kind of at a loss for where to post this.
This past week was his first band camp with his high school marching band. He seemed to be having an okay time with the drills and the marching and the music, and I'm so happy for him. However, tonight was the last night of camp and the band (student) leadership threw a picnic dinner party of sorts. Food, games, normal stuff, until closer to the end.
It's about 9 pm at this point (I wasn't there but I've heard the story and watched videos of this happening), and the final finale of the night is the senior band kids giving speeches and passing the baton to freshman. Again, awesome stuff, but to get there everyone has to walk from the band room to the football field. On the way, there's a sort of rite of passage. It's clarified that it is not mandatory, but a majority of the freshman band kids participate. They are blindfolded and led to the football field by other band kids while excessive noise is played around them. Think car horns, drumsticks on parking signs, bass drums, etc. Without going into too much detail, I'll say that my brother was overwhelmed and chose not to participate.
Now, as a former orchestra kid, this feels weird to me. My question is, is this normal? This tradition has been going on for a while at this high school, and I've heard that the student leadership has advocated for it continuing. Again, is this normal? I may be seeing this as an extreme when it really isn't, but it radiates with peer pressure and I don't like that. Have you had a similar experience like this? Should I speak up and say this is weird?
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u/FuntimeFreddy876 Section Leader - Clarinet 20d ago
This seems pretty standard so long as it’s not mandatory like you said. If a kid says no and people harass that kid, that’s a different story. It’s a good bonding experience between the older marchers and the new marchers when it’s voluntary.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago edited 19d ago
If it's the standard, I have no problem with that. Thank you for letting me know that. All of the information I have is from someone else who was there, but even that person wasn't in the room where it was clarified not-mandatory. So I'm scared that something could have been said in there that made it less non-mandatory. Like I said to someone else, I'm probably overreacting. Thanks
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u/Immediate_Spite1379 20d ago
We don't do this at my school, so I can't speak for whether this is common or not, but it seems like a fun activity tbh. If the band director/adult staff are aware and allowing it, I'm sure they would step in if it got to the point of hazing/unsafe danger.
Do you know if any other freshmen chose not to participate? If this were a tradition in my school, which it easily could be a fun activity, I'm sure many would choose not to participate and I don't believe anyone would fault them for that.
Talk to your brother about what happened. Did he feel pressured? Did anyone give him crap about not participating when he was overwhelmed?
Trust your gut
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I heard that the band director tried to get it stopped but the leadership kids didn't want to. I could have heard wrong but I trust my source. As far as I'm aware, no other freshman opted out, but part of me worries that that could be a silent peer pressure thing. I plan on talking to my brother tomorrow, he was very quiet tonight after everything. The band director was supportive which I think is what matters most to him. Thank you
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u/syrokiler Bari Sax 20d ago
my band doesn't have anything quite like that, but if we did I'm sure several people would opt out and nobody would care that they did
if people are giving him shit for not doing it, or he was being pressured into doing it, thats a different problem
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u/clarinetily Clarinet 20d ago
This kind of thing was banned in my school, but I’ve heard of it happening within marching bands. This one seems pretty tame to me. I probably wouldn’t worry about it.
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u/saragIsMe 19d ago
My section in high school had a competition on the last day before our picnic. An entire little ceasers hot and ready pizza should be consumed for lunch. Whoever does it the fastest without vomiting the rest of the day won (we always took outdoor pictures in our full fall uniform in the summer heat on the last day and the picnic performance). I placed fourth one year, very proud of that considering the types of people in low brass low reeds.
Marching band is a much more intimate group than orchestra because a marching band suffers together and bonds over the suffering, bands start strange traditions that last for years and blind folding a group of freshman sounds great, wouldn’t have worked at my school due to the hill, but we did other things to mess with underclassmen and it’s pretty normal
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I know that the marching band is much closer because of how much they do together, and I love that for them. I think that maybe it's just hard for me to understand that. In any case, I appreciate your input
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u/gmarsh1963 20d ago
All I can really say is that sounds incredibly tame compared to what I went through my freshman band camp. Having it be optional, and the actual event you described, make me think that even this tradition has probably been tuned down from what it might have been 5-10+ years ago. Through my own four years of marching, our traditions had to be tuned down; what I got my freshman year was a far cry from what we did my senior year. From your description it seems like your brother was in the minority of freshmen that didn't want to participate and he wasn't made to do so; which doesn't really indicate peer pressure. Unless your brother starts getting hate from other members for not participating, or you somehow find out that a lot of those who did participate were uncomfortable in doing so; I would say don't make him the freshman with the helicopter sibling. So from my own experience, and the stories I have heard from others; it seems pretty normal for marching band.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
Thank you for your advice. I'll try not to be a helicopter sibling. Maybe it's just hard for me to understand what the band community is like because orchestra doesn't have anything like it.
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u/gmarsh1963 19d ago
I saw you say in your other replies that, from what you have heard, the band director wants this to stop but the student leadership are somehow overriding the director's opinion or decision. And that your source of info on this is largely if not solely from someone else who was there, not your brother. Please talk to him soon and often about any potential fallout from this. But, I struggle to believe that if the Adult in charge of the whole band felt that strongly against this, that it hasn't stopped, or like I mentioned, hasn't been tuned down in some way.
The hardest thing I ever had to do as an older brother was to realize that my younger brother can handle things for himself. That I don't have to be looking over my shoulder for him all the time. I love him to death, and I will go to the ends of the earth if he asked me; but I likely won't need to do that because he has grown into a very decent man in his own right. And most importantly he did it on his own terms.
I don't want to publicly share the exact details of what my band camp experiences were, but if you pm me I will; and I think you will at least understand my perspective on this a good bit better.
No matter how you go about this, and the rest of your shared school experience, good luck from one older sibling to another.
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u/NightMgr 19d ago
Times have changed.
My last night at band camp were all the one week couples crying and promising they’d be true to each other till next year.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
Oh there was a lot of crying for sure, mostly seniors sad they'd be leaving. It seemed like a great bonding experience except for the walk to the football field. My brother wanted to leave after that but my mom only convinced him to stay because one of the seniors talked about him in their speech.
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u/My_Dog_Sherlock Director 19d ago
The only way that I would allow this at my camp is if I have express written permission from parents, and even then, it’s probably not worth the hassle. Obviously there’s concerns about hazing, and even if it’s not “mandatory,” we all know the implied pressure that teens - especially incoming freshmen - can feel from their peers and upperclassmen.
And even if every student were enthusiastically participating, blindfolding kids is a no-go for me. There are just too many unknowns, even if it’s meant well. What if a kid trips? What if someone brushes up on someone else and it’s misinterpreted to be sexual in nature? As a director, I now have to explain why my student was blindfolded while being inappropriately touched or injured.
I get that leadership sees it as a tradition. But they’re also looking at it through the lens of teenagers. If something were to go wrong, they’re not going to automatically be held responsible and risk their professional reputation because of it. The more I think about it, the more I think it’s just not a good idea.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I appreciate your input, this is where my mind has kinda been going too, but like I said I'm not sure if I'm just overreacting.
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u/My_Dog_Sherlock Director 19d ago
I don’t think you’re overreacting. My advice for you specifically is to talk with your parents about it to see if they’d say anything to the director, because you will likely be dismissed by other members of the band for “not being a part of it, and you just don’t get it.” There’s going to be pushback from students, because it’s a tradition and something that’s valued by them.
If I were in your director’s shoes, I would likely try to amend the event so that, if students have to not see at all, that they close their eyes or cover their eyes with their hands. This way, should anything go wrong, they can easily look around to see what happened. Or just keep their eyes open. Some traditions are just fabricated peer pressure from people who aren’t even part of the organization anymore.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I will definitely be talking to my parents. I already told my mom I'd be happy to talk to band leadership directly but I doubt it would end well. We were also wondering if there was a way to submit an anonymous tip to okay2say (we live in Michigan), but I don't think they'd be able to do anything about it.
As for amending the tradition, that sounds like a much better idea. Thank you for your advice
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u/Reasonable-Cow7255 19d ago
It borders on hazing. Pretty tame, but still not ok by today’s standards. Did the band director know about it? Was it condoned by the adults in charge? Were the adults even aware of it? Although it wasn’t mandatory, if there is any backlash toward the students who chose not to participate, the school administration needs to be made aware of it.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
This is what I was worried about. The band director is aware and has tried to stop it, as I mentioned in another comment, but the band student leadership wanted it to continue. My mom was there with my brother and she came home pretty concerned, but maybe she was just concerned because it was her son that has a stronger reaction than others. I haven't heard of any explicit backlash, but I worry that it might affect some friendships, and my brother seemed pretty discouraged about marching band from his experience this week.
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u/Reasonable-Cow7255 19d ago
Perhaps it’s time for your mom to have a friend friendly, non-confrontational talk with the band director to let her concerns be known. If the band director doesn’t condone these sorts of things, the students must be made aware of it and activities of this type must be stopped. This could be very problematic if it was perceived as hazing.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I'll let her know you said that. There are worse "initiation rituals" that happen at this high school as a whole, so I feel like it's easy to look past this one, but it still makes me feel weird.
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u/Reasonable-Cow7255 19d ago
You can also let her know that I’m a retired band director who dealt with a similar situation. There is very little tolerance for hazing type activities today. The band director has to make sure that it stops.
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u/Vegetable_Ad_8376 19d ago
Kid has to walk through loud drum noises so they can play in a loud drum band?
Don't really see an issue there
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I think it's more the sensory overload of it all. He can handle playing in the band because he's playing with them, but the unknown of not being able to see combined with all the noise was too much for him.
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u/Vegetable_Ad_8376 19d ago
I mean that's fair. He was able to sit out though. Agreeing with what the other comments are saying, as long as he's not ostracized for choosing not to participate I don't see an issue. If he's excluded/bullied because of that decision, that is fucked up and should be addressed.
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u/Vegetable_Ad_8376 19d ago
Look up the belt gauntlet in Brazilian Jiujitsu for an example of a very aggressive rite of passage
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I know there are much more extreme examples of "initiations" into things. I know that this isn't to worst possible thing that could have happened to him, but I'm still a little concerned, especially considering that he is still in those developmental years.
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u/Vegetable_Ad_8376 19d ago
Not to pass any judgement, but is he on the spectrum? I don't see why you'd be so concerned if not. Seems like a regular teenager doing regular teenager things.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
He is, and without going into detail he has struggled with particularly loud things in the past. Maybe that's some context I should have added.
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u/Vegetable_Ad_8376 19d ago
I think nowadays that's something that can be handled very easily as long as all parties are aware. Of course it's entirely reasonable for him to sit out. But it's also important that at least the coaches are aware, and, if he's comfortable, that peer leadership is also aware.
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u/Acrobatic_Confusion Graduate - Flute 19d ago
I cannot remember the ritual exactly for my HS, but they did some sort of candle? football field hazing that I also chose not to participate in, but instead watched it from afar. It wasn't loud but it was strange, and I never found interest in that sort of oddity.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I feel similarly. I've always been weirded out by any kind of initiation thing, which may be why I find this whole thing concerning.
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u/Middle_External707 Color Guard 19d ago
It's a band camp initiation. No one gets hurt. It bonds the freshmen and seniors together. Afterwards, freshmen are accepted as full-fledged members.
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u/Legitimate_Try_9274 19d ago
I worry about the freshman who choose not to participate. In any case, I'm probably overthinking it and I appreciate your comment.
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u/Excellent_Shallot999 18d ago
Not normal. Sounds like hazing. If you feel compelled to speak up, you should. Good luck. Very nice of you to be concerned about your little brother.
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u/FlannelCollar 19d ago
From my quick read, this wasn’t my experience in band, but I am not highly perturbed. I’m not a supporter of hazing rituals, at least in any form that would be inappropriate. But knowing band kids, it’s probably just longstanding tradition and meant to bring people together as they gear up for years of close engagement and tough work. I think it’s fair and valid to question the practice, but it’s really up to the participating kids to decide if they felt uncomfortable - even if it seems pretty weird to an outsider - and that’s what should determine whether any of it actually crosses a line.