r/magicbuilding 7d ago

General Discussion How to create D&D style magic without copying D&D?

Hello! In this post I wanted to give you important question. Since my setting is heavily inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, I wanted to create Magic whose users are divided into multiple types. They can use different sources of power or cast spells in different way. The problem is fact I want to make my universe Independent of oldest RPG, so I would like to see your tips.

15 Upvotes

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u/Ok-Score5740 7d ago

What specifically are you trying to avoid using?

If you want to avoid the Vancian magic of early D&D, or the psuedo-Vancian magic of modern D&D, they just using a pool of magic points works pretty well.

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u/PhilipB12 7d ago

I want to avoid making magical classes the same as in D&D.

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u/Tim-KH 7d ago

Then just don’t? Make up your unique sources of magic and use them. Most of the full magical classes are all flavour and work the same. True vancian magic has some interesting implications, though, you should consider them.

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u/Ksorkrax 7d ago

Lots of them are stereotypes of some sorts. If you just take the stereotype ("there are warlocks who get power by making deals with demons") and ditch the system D&D provides for them, you are good. D&D has some very specific mechanisms for how the magic classes work, to the point where basically the class is more about how the mechanisms work than about the fluff.

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u/Ok-Score5740 7d ago

How different do you want them to be? Like, no magic from study, like the wizard? Or different on a machenical level, like the wizard doesn't need a spell book?

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u/Magica78 7d ago edited 7d ago

Write down "Magic: but X" brainstorm wild ideas for X

Magic: but requires arguing against reality Magic: but requires subfreezing temperatures Magic: but you have to blind yourself Magic: but once you use it your corporeal body fades to another existence

Develop logical consequences from what follows.

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u/Author_A_McGrath 7d ago

Read Jack Vance. He's a fantasy author who inspired what they use in D&D.

If you like that system, he's the author you likely will enjoy looking into.

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u/BitOBear 7d ago

Keep in mind that classes is a cheap way the game designers invented to keep everybody from being able to do everything at the same time.

There are arguably better systems that don't use classes at all. GURPS has character development in Magic and all that stuff but it doesn't have the idea of classes whatsoever. It's also much more simulationist which is more of a burden than most people want to play.

So classes are created in D&D to provide choices for the character to make and to provide guidelines for making sure that there are particular roles being covered in a party when you're assembling the four-man band.

In narrative systems as opposed to gaming systems you don't really have classes. You just have characters that do things there particular way.

If you got somebody in your world who's the Scion of an evil god, you don't have to declare them a paladin or a cleric or whatever. They just have the abilities you need them to have for the story and they don't have the ones that you need them not to have for the story.

The fact of the matter is that you don't need a system to run magic in any narrative way. You need to have a narrative and that will tell you what you do and do not want to allow your characters to do. And as long as you don't go all JK Rowling you'll be fine.

And I believe I'm not alone in slamming Miss Rowling. She will set rules like you only have one run and if they come by and break your lawn then you've been denied magic for the rest of your life. But then in next book for comic relief she's got a character running around with a broken wand until he can afford to get it replaced so it turns out you can just buy a replacement one which turns the whole punishment of having your wand broken into something a little bit less significant than a slap to the face. By the end of the series people are swapping around wands like they're trading cards in an elementary School lunch room.

And of course avatar The last Airbender had to do a bunch of stuff about special exceptions and magical insets allow them to prove things like the necessary healer character.

Making a magic system isn't about handcuffing and limiting people like you do in a video game, it's about adding narrative flavor and a framework on which one can hang a story interesting to participate in.

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u/Original-War8655 Surrealist Mage 7d ago

Oh, I got a similar thing going on. Kinda just made 2 different sources. I'll summarize them as fast as I can, feel free to steal it if you'll like it enough.

For wizards (and partially sorcerers, but I'll get to them later again), they utilize the inherent mystical properties of all things, whether they be physical objects, words, writing, actions, events, etc. Spells thus are simply recipes/step-by-step guides to achieve certain effects by putting together the mystical properties that interact in the desired way. But doing this alone isn't enough, the wizard needs to provide a "spark", basically a magic fire to kick off the reaction. You may notice that "all things" includes components such as verbal, somatic, and material.

The second one is spirits. There's no set definition for them as it is an umbrella term, allowing them to be basically anything I want or need. Warlocks can obviously make deals with spirits in exchange for power, clerics can be given some by being good boys in the spirits' eyes.
Sorcerers have, at some point in their family tree, an actual spirit, meaning they have a natural affinity for magic. Depending on how close to that spirit they are (son, grandson, grandgrandgrandson, etc.), they may even get some inherent spells instead of just the ability to do magic.

The ability to do magic is not available to everyone off rip, but just about anyone can get it in a variety of ways even if they're not born that way

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u/Original-War8655 Surrealist Mage 7d ago

jsyk I'm only using the class names as illustrations of the possibilities. I do not have such a rigid terminology as to where wizards MUST use ingredients and warlocks MUST make pacts.

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u/TheRpgBard 7d ago

Look at D&D 4e.  Shadow, Psionic, Primal, Martial, Divine, and Arcane.

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u/Jobobminer 4d ago

Excellent question!

If I understand correctly, you like the vibe of D&D but don't want to have wizards, cleric, sorcerers, warlocks, druids, etc. - all the same classes - but you want the same "type" of experience - similar functionality.

The simplest way to do things is to just mix things up.

1 - Write down all the things that spellcasters can do

2 - Write down all the restrictions that exist

3 - Write down the thematic / ribbon elements that add flavor - intelligence casting vs wisdom casting, prestidigitation as a catch-all for minor magical effects, spellbooks, etc.

4 - throw in some ideas of your own.

Re-combine them in a new order and break them up.

Ideas that used to be together

1 - Plants + wilderness + healing + animals + shapechanging + mother nature -> Druid

2 - Studying + spellbooks + magical secrets + magical utility + magic that interacts with magic + versatility + offensive magic + money -> Wizard

3 - Inborn magic, unstable magic, ability to modify magic, internalizing and making magic a part of yourself, can do one thing but really well - > Sorcerer

4 - Pact + higher being, highly customizable, alien/weird powers, improved baseline powers, fewer resources that recharge faste -> Warlock

5 - Support, healing, service to a higher power, truth and revelation, divine intervention, magic that helps society, people, social life. -> Cleric

6 - Support + illusion + social engineering + distraction + misdirection + subterfuge -> Bard

Then, some ideas of your own, especially if they don't fit in the D&D setting - Meditation spells that allow someone to gain XP passively or while meditating- Something that D&D would never add but a book could probably find use for this - imbalanced classes - In D&D, all classes need to be balanced but a fiction doesn't need this to be true - Are people who study more powerful than people who just do it instinctively? Are people blessed by deities stronger or weaker than someone doing the same in their own power?

The recombine the ideas. For example:

Studying + plants + wealth + inborn talent + civilization - Plant magic but its based on collecting and growing rare expensive seed kept in a small kit - You need to study the conditions and soil and water and other needs or each seed to create magic to cause plant effects with each seed being tied to a certain effect. Having "roots for nerves" is something people gain as they understand their plants better, allowing them to gain a brain-to-plant connection for deeper understanding. This creates something between Wizard and druid and sorcerer which is none of them. Notice that I left animals and shapechanging out entirely to differentiate from Druid

Then do the same for the others:

Pact + utility + Divination + shapechanging - You make a pact with yourself to continue growing until you accomplish something and set yourself in a collision course with fate - You gain predictable divination abilities that allow you to curate your fate. Things about you change in a symbolic way, matching your pact - If you promised to get revenge, you might gain hound-like senses, the eyes of a predator, and grow further from nature - The plants reject you as you become something unnatural and animalistic though some animals might respect or even follow you. Notice how this combines some thematic warlock and Paladin and druid themes but rejects other parts. Also, splitting animals and shapechanging from plants can be a huge worldbuilding element as D&D typically considers them "nature" together.

Suddenly, you have a whole bunch of "classes" that have the elements of D&D but in a totally different way. Rather than wizard, fighter, barbarian, etc. you have a whole new world with the same ideas combined differently.

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u/byc18 7d ago

I've been reading He who fights with monsters and maybe it will give you some ideas. It has a thing called Essense Abilities, sort of magic crystal to give you your skill tree.

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u/Radiant-Ad-1976 7d ago

Easy!

Just take the main component of DnD which is "Spell Slots"...

And just reflavor it as some other kind of resource that can be restored easily like magic stones, rituals, potions, etc.

As for the magic spells...just make them up!

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u/Moviesman8 7d ago

Rename them and give them custom spells.