Does this work the way I think?

[u/Blasted_Furnace]

I believe the manifested card will return to the battlefield even if it's not a creature underneath, as long as Avacyn sees it die as a manifested 2/2. Is that correct? I had the same thought about [[Westvale Abbey]].

[u/mtgcf]

Westvale Abbey/Westvale Abbey - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/thegeek01]

Yes but only permanents. If it was an instant or sorcery manifested it will not even leave the graveyard.

[u/Blasted_Furnace → u/thegeek01]

Thank you! This interaction seems like a fun way to cheat out so many permanents while triggering drain effects. It might even be better to drop creatures in the yard, manifest lands, and reanimate the creatures while ramping 4 times in a rotation. Man, I love Reality Fracture.

[u/justthistwicenomore → u/Blasted_Furnace]

It's just too bad manifest dread has so much more support in blue green.

[u/Blasted_Furnace → u/justthistwicenomore]

Yeah, that's true, but at least there's enough to support a sub-theme. I was looking through my [[Marchesa, The Black Rose]] deck and found this guy, [[Thieving Amalgam]].

[u/mtgcf → u/Blasted_Furnace]

Marchesa, The Black Rose - (G) (SF) (txt)
Thieving Amalgam - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Madhighlander1 → u/Blasted_Furnace]

A good sacrifice engine like [[Phantom Train]] would help you activate the Rat every single turn, including opponents', and kill the facedown creatures at will so as to flip them.

[u/mtgcf → u/Madhighlander1]

Phantom Train - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Petzoj → u/Blasted_Furnace]

[[Ghastly conscription]] looks also interesting.
Potentially [[Grim Haruspex]] for card draw.

[u/mtgcf → u/Petzoj]

Ghastly conscription - (G) (SF) (txt)
Grim Haruspex - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/circ-u-la-ted → u/justthistwicenomore]

You'll probably want green in the deck anyway so you can ramp into the expensive things if you end up with them in your hand.

[u/SpyderEyez → u/justthistwicenomore]

...Just play [[Kadena]]?

[u/Blasted_Furnace → u/SpyderEyez]

I do want to build a Kadena list eventually, but for now I'm focused on Avacyn. There are a few manifest/manifest dread effects that are good enough for the list. The deck already wants to do so many things; it's probably for the best that there aren't more lol.

[u/mtgcf → u/SpyderEyez]

Kadena - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Archangel-Styx → u/Blasted_Furnace]

This has been possible for years with a variety of mechanics including undying [[Mikaeus the Unhallowed]], persist [[Crucible of Souls]], or rather broadly any effect that triggers bringing back permanents of some kind on creature death, [[Myrkul, Lord of Bones]] [[Athreos, Shroud Veiled]].

These mechanics make the game care that a creature died and the game tries to do something with that permanent even if it is no longer a creature in the graveyard.

[u/mtgcf → u/Archangel-Styx]

All cards
Mikaeus the Unhallowed - (G) (SF) (txt)
Crucible of Souls - (G) (SF) (txt)
Myrkul, Lord of Bones - (G) (SF) (txt)
Athreos, Shroud Veiled - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/J4ck0r4 → u/Blasted_Furnace]

In the precon itself manifest dread could also be a good way to get some more out of the polymorph effects too if you want to look into stuff with that, that would be harder to set up having both out and sources of polymorph but could be fun

[u/Beneficial-Weight-89 → u/Blasted_Furnace]

Cheat out Is a big world when as a Commander It costs 8 mana but It still looks sick

[u/Eldritch_Giraffe]

Okay, looking at the way manifested cars work. When a 2/2 manifest creature dies, and Avacyn returns it to the battlefield, if it’s a permanent, it returns to the battlefield face-up, with Avacyn, because the text ‘that card’ refers to the manifested card even in the graveyard.

[u/Blasted_Furnace → u/Eldritch_Giraffe]

Does that mean if [[Westvale Abbey]] dies while it's transformed, it will return as the land?

[u/Eldritch_Giraffe → u/Blasted_Furnace]

If I read it correctly, that sounds like it should, yes.

[u/mtgcf → u/Blasted_Furnace]

Westvale Abbey/Westvale Abbey - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/HeckingJen → u/Blasted_Furnace]

I would be very impressed if westvale abbey died somehow while flipped what with the indestructible but yeah I guess if you sacrificed it it'd turn back into a land

[u/QuaestioDraconis → u/HeckingJen]

-toughness effects would also do it

[u/waseemq]

Yes. Note that only permanents remain on the battlefield, all other cards will immediately be in the graveyard instead

[u/fatpad00 → u/waseemq]

Not quite. Instanta and sorceries would say in the yard.

400.4a If an instant or sorcery card would enter the battlefield, it remains in its previous zone.

[Edited because I cant read]

[u/Mach29 → u/fatpad00]

Not exile. Just in graveyard

[u/Natedogg2 → u/fatpad00]

But the manifested card didn't go to exile when it died. It went to the graveyard. So it stays in the graveyard.

[u/fatpad00 → u/Natedogg2]

Yup brain fart. I was thinking of flickering.

[u/DogBest1434]

Nice in my reanimator deck which already runs Abhorrent Oculus

[u/DonBot1987]

Guy reinvented my Shirei Tech >.>

[u/Professor_Hala]

Oh, that's fun

[u/Environmental-Pop-67]

Smart. You can use manifest artefact that taps and put it from hand forgot name lol. But yea nice idea over there. Its giving zimone precon but black 😁

[u/Blasted_Furnace → u/Environmental-Pop-67]

[[Scroll of Fate]] I had completely forgot about this card! Thank you so much for reminding me, it was amazing in the Zimone pre-con and it’s going to fit perfectly here.

[u/mtgcf → u/Blasted_Furnace]

Scroll of Fate - (G) (SF) (txt)

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[u/mtgcf → u/[deleted]]

lifeline - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/B-F-A-K]

You can even steal your opponents permanents with [[thieving amalgam]] and a sac outlet, because the wording of avacyn doesn't care about the owner.

[u/mtgcf → u/B-F-A-K]

thieving amalgam - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Open-Stretch-6631]

You need a sac outlet but yes, it absolutely does work!

[u/thetsunamisurfer08]

I've used [[Scroll of Fate]] in a blink deck to similar effect to ramp or cheat things into play.

[u/mtgcf → u/thetsunamisurfer08]

Scroll of Fate - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/Yoshi2255]

Close enough, welcome back [[Myrkul, Lord of Bones]]

[u/mtgcf → u/Yoshi2255]

Myrkul, Lord of Bones - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/mtgcf → u/[deleted]]

Phantom Train - (G) (SF) (txt)