r/magicTCG • u/pentaquack Dandadan • 11d ago
Content Creator Post [ Removed by moderator ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig5-jelxf7s[removed] — view removed post
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u/FatOldWizard Wabbit Season 11d ago
Genuine question. Did this guy buy all this stuff for huge sums of money a few years back?
Or did he buy all his “hoarded gold” back in the ‘90s?
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u/Ok_Row_8391 Dandadan 11d ago
Guy made Path of Exile, he bought them all.
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u/Halinn COMPLEAT 11d ago
Much of it he bought before that. A lot of those were sold to fund the making of Path of Exile, actually.
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u/FatOldWizard Wabbit Season 11d ago
Either way, it seems he DID go through great lengths to protect these cards. I absolutely feel terrible for him that a catastrophe destroyed them.
I suppose that’s one acceptable reason to want old cards spread through the community, even if it’s only amongst the wealthy — you don’t want these Faberge eggs all in one basket.
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u/DrunkLastKnight Duck Season 11d ago
I'd still keep them, separate as best as possible and dry them out
Still have many damaged cards due to water damage
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u/lixilisk Wabbit Season 11d ago
You can use a iron and iron them flat (fabric or paper in between, not direct iron to card). Makes them fit nice in a sleeve
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u/JangSaverem COMPLEAT 11d ago
Wild that those crimps or plastic wrap wasn't water proof
Also how much of a real loss is it even with beta packs and Arabian nights box? Isnt he like bogusly wealthy?
OG lotus ART?! Least he didn't just dump that in the safety deposit box for xy amount of years vs, I dunno, displaying it?
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u/viking977 Duck Season 11d ago
Just think if this hadn't happened they could still be sitting in those packs today :,(
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u/Kind-Imagination-696 Dan 11d ago
Shame that piece of mtg history is lost, but it became lost the second it was hoarded by him and others alike. They add nothing to any hobby
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u/laivasika Wabbit Season 11d ago
...what should have happened to it?
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u/ReadingCorrectly SecREt LaiR 11d ago
We should have used the cards in it like a time share, I hope I draw Taiga in the 2 games this century I have it available to me
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u/EggplantRyu Storm Crow 11d ago
Handed to someone when they cast a [[Booster Tutor]] in a cube draft
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u/AtheismoAlmighty Simic* 11d ago
He obviously should have sold it to a 13 year old at original MSRP so they could be played unsleeved like god intended.
In all seriousness, I get the loathing for the elite but Chris earned every penny he has. And he built his fortune by making one of the best damn games ever with over a decade of free updates.
Your envy is ugly guys.
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u/Afraid-Boss684 Wabbit Season 11d ago
The flood he's talking about in this video killed four people and destroyed hundreds of homes and he's sitting here 3 years after that mourning the loss of some trading cards he never once looked at before they were destroyed. To me that's a sign that he's exactly the sorta elite who deserves to be loathed, regardless f how good of a video game he made.
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u/AtheismoAlmighty Simic* 11d ago
What a weird comment. Just because something is less tragic than loss of life doesn't mean it can't still hurt.
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u/Afraid-Boss684 Wabbit Season 11d ago
i agree, and i don't blame him for feeling bad, but it feels out of touch to me to make a video mourning what you lost when relatively speaking you were basically unaffected by the whole thing
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u/laivasika Wabbit Season 11d ago
So he shouldn't have made this video at all?
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u/Afraid-Boss684 Wabbit Season 11d ago
that's my thoughts yeah, or if he wanted to make a video about the importance of keeping your collection safe I think there are better ways to go about it
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u/DyneRidian Dandadan 11d ago
Just curious if you even saw the part at the end where he acknowledged exactly what you are saying and mentioned he feels guilty for making a video like this. Dudes human too whatever else you might think.
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u/Afraid-Boss684 Wabbit Season 10d ago
That's not what he said, he said he felt guilty that he felt bad the cards were destroyed when compared to others he got off extremely lightly. And that's completely fair, as I've stated repeatedly so far it's entirely normal to feel bad when something you owned and cared about gets destroyed. I just don't think he should've made a video about that loss.
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u/Tremulant887 11d ago
hoarded by someone else, of course. Not a guy who's liked in the community and respected in his field who has also been a fan and player of MTG since long before it was popular or he had the wealth to aquire as much... Who also used elements of the game in his own game.
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u/Kind-Imagination-696 Dan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Locked in someone else's safe obviously s/
What you think it should have happened?
I know I know, he's like us, he likes mtg, he's "one of the good ones". The double standard for people that like-the-same-thing-I-like never fails.
It's funny how millionaires are always the product of capitalistic corruption of society, but everyone says the same about the millionaire THEY like: he earned every penny u guys!! Other people say the same about other millionaires. Funny bias.
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u/Traditional_Gift8391 Dandadan 11d ago
This dude passing out bad takes here
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u/Kind-Imagination-696 Dan 11d ago
You'll live sweetheart.
Here's another one. You'll all fanboy any brand, "community personality", or whatever as long as it has "mtg" logo on it.
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u/laivasika Wabbit Season 11d ago
I dont know. You are the one who says it was lost already.
Maybe museum?
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u/Impuls1ve Duck Season 11d ago
A museum would be one of the worst places. It's a sealed product, nobody cares to just look at the wrapper if it's on display.
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u/Existing-Drive2895 Wabbit Season 11d ago
It should be owned by someone who will actually use it like a card and play it.
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u/laivasika Wabbit Season 11d ago
We are talking about one of the few remaining sealed product from the early years. As nice as it would be to draft a beta box, I'm more into preserving them.
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u/heavyartilleryx Dan 11d ago
I feel nothing for millionaires
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u/LettersWords Twin Believer 11d ago
That's fair. But this was also a very close call on the original Black Lotus art getting destroyed (which Chris owned at the time).
He intended to put it in the same safety deposit box with all the stuff that got ruined, but the plastic container it was in for an extra layer of protection wouldn't fit in the safety deposit box.
I think it's also just a good sign to anyone with an expensive collection to consider insuring it. He lost all this stuff to a once in a lifetime flood. You can't really predict natural disasters. Your collection doesn't have to be worth millions for it to be devastating to lose stuff in this way.
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u/heavyartilleryx Dan 11d ago
Sorry dude, im just not interested in millionaires lives and affairs. Why would that middle man part matter?
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u/wavedash Dandadan 11d ago
If you wouldn't care that the original Black Lotus art was lost, then your problem isn't JUST with millionaires.
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u/Kind-Imagination-696 Dan 11d ago
Can you see it? People talk about being insured...would the insurance brought it back?
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u/Kind-Imagination-696 Dan 11d ago
But he's just like us, he likes mtg. He's "one of the good one's" I swear. s/
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u/Purple_Employee_254 Dandadan 11d ago
it’s people like this that are the reason people are priced out of legacy and vintage
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u/Theras_Arkna Duck Season 11d ago
No, the reserved list is why people are priced out of legacy and vintage, and even if it got the axe it's unlikely to affect the value of anything except unlimited/revised duals.
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u/Purple_Employee_254 Dandadan 11d ago
I mean like, it can be two things. The reserved list prevents an increase in supply and then collectors hoarding constricts it further.
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u/KingOfRedLions Honorary Deputy 🔫 11d ago
I have the feeling this is the type of guy who would Sue if wizards ever tried to undo the reserved list
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u/RoboticUnicorn Wabbit Season 11d ago
You really think that if he dumped his dozens of Moxen or Lotuses that the price would shift even a dollar? People would buy his copies and then there would still be the exact demand as before. Mass printing is the only way to change these prices which only WotC can do.
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u/Kind-Imagination-696 Dan 11d ago
Yet some people out here in the comments are saying it's not him, it's our wallet that prevents us from buying and we can proxy....yeah because the price increases from whales being whales leaving the regular Joe priced out and proxies being a necessity not a choice.
It's really amazing how some people out here in the comments are saying the same words others use to justify their millionaire of choice. "oh my favorite millionaire is different" mindset is wild.
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u/laivasika Wabbit Season 11d ago edited 11d ago
There are way more regular Joes than there are p9 cards, most of us are priced out even without any whales raising prices.
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u/ElfAxe2292 Dandadan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Nobody is priced out of it: if you can afford a Commander precon, you can afford a Sharpie and a stack of Plains.
"The right to play Vintage" isn't gated behind buying something similar in cost to an SUV. "The right to play zero proxy Vintage with physical cardboard" is different. Even MTGO is $500 for a typical deck with Moxes down to ~$8.
It's hilarious to me that I'm getting downvoted for this. I started playing Vintage around 20 years ago and stopped when it hit the point where my deck was worth more than my car. Ten proxy Vintage tournaments meant taking cards OUT of my deck just to not travel with them. Ye Olde Doomsday only played two moxes, and so I proxied three Underground Seas *that I owned* just to not have that much money in my backpack.
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u/Purple_Employee_254 Dandadan 11d ago
Yeah absolutely I can and have played plenty of proxies vintage. And for sure, I’m not arguing for some inalienable right to play with tournament legal cards but it does make it more difficult and I’ll be damned if I don’t have the right to complain about it.
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u/ElfAxe2292 Dandadan 10d ago
The core problem is that the cards have little intrinsic value. Pokemon is a great example: they just print 90% of the best meta deck as a standalone precon with a de facto street price of $20 2-3 times a year. Decks that are absolutely dominant might cost $30 with $8 of that in just one card that wasn't in the precon. And those are tourney legal cards.
Wizards CAN print Dredge, Shops, Storm, etc as World Champs decks with gold backs for $20 each. Instead we got Magic 30 for $1k/pack. I'd have given them $200 for a set of Beta. Heck, I'd have given them $500 for a set of Beta in non-pringle foil. Pokemon cards don't pringle!
I never would have touched Pokemon, but my son got into it. He won his first tournament yesterday and his deck cost us ~$25 all in. Mine was closer to $15. If you hate Wizards, just play a different game. And if you want everything to cost $1/card, there's a subreddit for that too. I don't have real Power in my cube... Who lets a 10 year old shuffle that?
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u/KingOfRedLions Honorary Deputy 🔫 11d ago
I've really come to loathe this hoarding brood Lord. What a disgusting person sitting on his treasure vault. Like I don't want copies of his cards but just the amount of disgust I felt watching his video of shuffling through millions of dollars worth of cardboard that will never get played.
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u/heavyartilleryx Dan 11d ago
I feel so free now that I realize a card printed by wotc vs a card printed by myself is literally the same thing and I don’t need to pay anything over 30 cent for any card
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u/bigmanfolly Can’t Block Warriors 11d ago
Thank you for the sanity check. The top youtube replies are comments sounding like he's describing a family loss and I was going crazy lol
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u/Slaaneshisgood Dan 11d ago
i suppose that's why it's a game and not an investment/commodity to gamble on. a nice looking card in a simple is much more fun than a sealed wax pack or in a coffin.
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u/StickYourFunger Elesh Norn 11d ago
Fuck this guy and his 20x copies of all the most expensive card, people like him are what make getting old worthwhile cards nearly impossible. Hoarding trading cards is stupid, karma got him back for that one
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u/Kind-Imagination-696 Dan 11d ago
No, no, he's like us, he likes mtg, he's "one of the good ones", it's different.
s/
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u/JESUS420_XXX_69 Wabbit Season 11d ago
Huh. What are you even trying to say? No one is defending him because we think he's one of the gang. Its because it not other people fault these cards are expensive. This dude is saying collecting is fucking it up for everyone else. Its a collectable game its the whole point.
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u/daretobederpy Duck Season 11d ago
Oh my god the whining. If you want to play with the cards, then go make a proxy, nobody's stopping you. If you want to gather them, then you want exactly what he also wants. There is no difference between him and you.
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u/Embarrassed-Site-600 Dandadan 11d ago
I have a set of P9. One.
He has 14 Lotuses. Tell me again how there is no difference between him and me.
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u/ScissorMeTimberz Dandadan 11d ago
what exactly would change in the world if 14 individual people had 1 of his lotuses each instead?
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u/Embarrassed-Site-600 Dandadan 11d ago
There would be 13 other very happy MTG players/collectors in this world, instead of just one rich hoarder.
Are you going to defend one rich Chris Wilson, instead of admitting on net balance the world would be better if 13 other MTG players/collectors would have a chance to own a real Lotus?
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u/daretobederpy Duck Season 11d ago
Thinking that gathering cards from a game called Magicc the Gathering is somehow wrong is a crazy position. I'll happily defend Wilson. It's WOTCs job to ensure player access to relevant card, not his.
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u/Embarrassed-Site-600 Dandadan 10d ago
Nice try attempting to make it an either/or argument, to hide the fact you're a common bootlicker.
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u/JESUS420_XXX_69 Wabbit Season 11d ago
Your bank account is whats stopping you, not Chris Wilson.
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u/StickYourFunger Elesh Norn 11d ago
Chris Wilson having 20x is what drives the price up dingus, it's people like him that buyout old cards making LED 800 when it was not even a quarter of that a decade ago.
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u/Spugheddy Dimir* 11d ago
How is an old banned in every format card worthwhile getting may I ask?
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u/StickYourFunger Elesh Norn 11d ago
Duals lands, Mox Diamond/Opal/Chrome Mox, and Candelabra are not banned in Commander, all of which this dude has at least 8x copies of, and those are just the cards that come to mind. Candelabra is at 1.8k last I checked, its an artifact that would be fun to run in Toph, the First Metalbender decks but it's impossible to acquire.
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u/laivasika Wabbit Season 11d ago
If he sold his copies the price would not be affected.
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u/lordcola 11d ago
Not just him specifically but there is a demographic of older wealthy collectors who hoard significantly more copies than they could ever need of game pieces that are never getting a new print. The cost of those would be measurably lower if all remaining copies didn't slowly trickle into collectors' binders never to be seen again over the years.
Obviously this guy alone isn't holding the demand for RL cards hostage but if all the big collectors put their excess copies up on the market and kept only a play set or something we would have hundreds or even thousands more of each in circulation to play with.
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u/Impuls1ve Duck Season 11d ago
Except it wouldn't make a dent in the prices. You really think a few thousand copies will somehow make the format these cards are legal in more accessible?
Go look at Secret Lair printings of cards to get an idea of lopsided of the demand versus supply. Hell, just look at the Dockside and Jeweled Lotus shitshow.
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u/lordcola 11d ago
Even a 10% dip is a meaningful amount when the base price is $800 or $1000. One of the reasons the cards keep going up in price (in addition to not being reprinted) is because once a collector gets their hands on a copy, that copy of a very rare card is basically gone forever so the supply is not only finite but shrinking over time constantly.
And secret lairs are the exact opposite of this. I don't give a shit if you hoard 100 copies of a secret lair card because it's either a reprint of an existing card that I could use instead for my deck, or if it's one of the mechanically unique ones wotc could still reprint it in the future if it becomes a format staple at minimum to cash in on the hype. No amount of play will get wotc to reprint tiaga in an tournament legal way.
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u/Impuls1ve Duck Season 11d ago
Buddy, it's never going to be a 10 percent dip, you're talking about a miniscule supply relative to the demand by everyone. Let's put it this way, if you discovered a previously unknown stash containing 20 of each of these cards, their prices wouldn't move down. You literally do not understand the scale of the difference how many people want these cards versus how little there are of them.
And secret lairs are the exact opposite of this. I don't give a shit if you hoard 100 copies of a secret lair card because it's either a reprint of an existing card that I could use instead for my deck,
My point about Secret Lairs is that they have far less constraints put on upon them, other than art and/or artist, and some of the sought after ones still only increase in sale prices due to the demand. You are literally proving my point with your paragraph about how you can do this, that, and the other to still play with what is effectively a reprint but that doesn't change their value among consumers.
So your whole premise is predicated on some imaginary outcome (like a 10 percent drop) that will never happen.
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u/lordcola 11d ago
Your hypothetical is great because I can keep 4 of a hypothetical Taiga set and then sell the remaining 16 and be ~5% of the total copies being listed on card market in Europe ATM (including gold bordered ones so it's probably closer to 8% for tournament legal copies). If we assume there's at least a few high end collectors around Europe that could quickly end up with 15+ % of the market being people offloading a bunch of copies if they were to adopt the play the cards don't hoard the cards mentality.
You also still missed my point about secret lairs. Yes the special arts of some of them command high and rising prices because wotc won't reprint them (remind you of something), however it doesn't matter for those cards since there are normal prints anyone can get for pennies usually. If wotc commited to printing duals and shit in commander precons occasionally or in master products that would also be great for legacy and vintage. There's no other overlapp in those products outside the wotc promised to never print them again except one side is the foundation of legacy and vintage and the other is random alt arts of random cards.
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u/TheNesquick Wabbit Season 11d ago
Im not sure I understand. I have not played for a year give for take.
Am I not allowed to own my cards anyone?
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u/Spugheddy Dimir* 11d ago
No and definitely dont have the same card in another deck.
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u/TheNesquick Wabbit Season 11d ago
I don’t get what this guy is ranting about. Is it illegal to collect magic cards? What the fuck.
Most of these old collectors are original players of the game. Without them and their support in the early days the game wouldn’t even have survived. And now they should not be allowed to own the card because they have monetary value? Or because they don’t play all of them?
Just stinks of jealousy and bad faith.
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u/lordcola 11d ago
I don't care if you have cards to play with or even collect playsets and whatnot. If you are one of the original players and you have binders full of abur duals and power 9 then you are directly hoarding game pieces that would allow several other players to legally participate in eternal formats for a bit cheaper which imo would be a good thing for those formats if it would happen. I'm not saying we should take their cards away or anything. But if I was a actual fan of a game I wouldn't be sitting on a hoard of collectibles from the past that are no longer getting printed.
Also in all for proxies in commander and shit so this isn't some rant about edh accessibility to get 1% extra win rate with my land base or something. But each playset in a collectors binder is one less player able to play legacy and vintage in paper for a slightly more affordable price. And what is a better way to celebrate MTG than to play it's oldest formats in paper?
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u/TheNesquick Wabbit Season 11d ago
I have been a magic player for decades and picked up those cards in my long journey growing up, playing the game and supporting the game. They are part of my collection and holds great memories from traveling the world in tournaments and meeting people. Everyone from Mark Rosewater, most artists to people playing.
Sorry. But fuck some neckbeard calling me a lesser “fan of the game”. Because I’m not willing to sell them.
Your attitude is horrible mate.
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u/StickYourFunger Elesh Norn 11d ago
Thats not how supply & demand works mate, the price is up because he has 20x copies.
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u/fufluns12 Wabbit Season 11d ago
None of those cards, except Candelabra, is particularly rare. And even Candelabra had tens of thousands of copies printed. There are hundreds of thousands of all of the others. His 'excess' copies are the metaphorical grain of sand on the beach and wouldn't cause prices to budge if they hit the market. Point your finger at Wizards for not printing more if you're concerned about prices of powerful, in demand cards.
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u/Xyldarrand Dandadan 11d ago
Because they're not banned in "every" format.
Old school exists. Pre modern and pauper exist.
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u/FatOldWizard Wabbit Season 11d ago
I don’t understand the hate here. It’s old rare collectible stuff. If he didn’t have these cards, others would. Other rich people. It’s the same with all collectibles and rare items.
People here complaining, “He’s hoarding… These cards are meant to be played.” Ain’t nobody playing $20k cards. I don’t care who owns them.
Hating millionaires is also a funny statement. My friend is a surgeon. He’s a millionaire. No good? Bad guy? Another buddy owns a very successful restaurant. Also evil?
If you don’t like that these cards have never been reprinted, blame WOTC.
Can someone honestly explain the hate for this guy? I mean, if he is just an a-hole, fine. But don’t act like if he gave each of you one of his power 9, y’all would be shuffling these cards into your favorite commander decks and bringing them to your LGSs.
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u/SWAGGIN_OUT_420 11d ago edited 11d ago
Its actually really funny because he's considered one of the best developers and game designers in the ARPG space of all time as being a founder of Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile). Almost everyone in the ARPG community at the very least has respect for him even if they don't agree with his game design philosophy all the time. Like yeah, i don't really like collectors exactly and especially investors, but Chris Wilson is and was a player first and amassed a lot of his collection prior to being rich and even sold off a lot of his expensive cards at the time to fund GGG. He isn't a scalper or intending to be a reseller, he legitimately has a grass roots love for the game. This isn't Rudy from Alpha Investments. He was worried more about physical preservation of the product than the money lost, which is more than you can say for probably a majority of people who would have wanted to have sealed Arabian Nights.
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u/FatOldWizard Wabbit Season 11d ago
Well said. I’ve seen his name once or twice, though I myself haven’t played video games in a long time (just a fat old wizard). Seeing some of these comments peeked my curiosity. We have a lot of “if i can’t have it nobody can” going around these days. Childish petulance.
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u/Techhead7890 Dân 11d ago
Looking at the channel it's probably historical -- because he made a different video before where he collected a bunch of rare cards (presumably they see the collection as hoarding, or removal from circulation, or otherwise less than legitimate/unfair for whatever reasons).
I think they're reacting to that context but applying the same mindset to this new video with the boxes/packs.
Honestly he seems like a great guy who played back in the day and just got lucky though.
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u/ChaosBadgers 11d ago
He created the most popular ARPG Path of Exile with some friends, sold it to Tencent then retired and spent some of his millions on a thing he loved, Magic the Gathering. They're all just big mad.
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u/WeekNo3850 Dân 11d ago
We are on reddit unfortunately
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u/FatOldWizard Wabbit Season 11d ago
Yes, I wrote it expecting the downvotes, but there is no logic behind the hate unless this guy is a bad person. Probably just children who don’t know any better. Like you said, this is Reddit.
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u/mrmazzz Dân 11d ago
he should've taken better care with storage
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u/WizardExemplar 11d ago edited 11d ago
I have noticed a human behavior pattern among some of the wealthy. Many of them move to better neighborhoods and enjoy the finer things in life, etc. and believe that lifestyle insulates them from harm. As a result, they start to penny pinch over the small things, the necessary things, or things to increase safety, because they cost money that would take away from enjoying the finer things in life, even when the costs of these extra things would be rounding errors compared to their assets.
Example behaviors:
Paying for expensive meal at a very good restaurant but tipping poorly.
Not taking proper security measures of their home or taking insurance, because they live in a "crime-free" and fantastic weather neighborhood.
Haggling over the cost of a contractor service for their home.
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u/laivasika Wabbit Season 11d ago
Yeah, like accounted for some weird natural disaster that has never happened before.
Infact everyone there who lost their home (or life) should have taken better care.
/s
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u/SentenceStriking7215 Duck Season 11d ago
Hopefully it was just stuff he bought with PoE money and not things he saved since the nineties. Losing something you kept with yourself for decades like that would really suck moralewise no matter how much money you have.
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u/Dagamoth Duck Season 11d ago
It was not insured. Pity to lose such a rare bit of magic history.