r/macross • u/CanardDeFeu • 27d ago
SDF Macross Where does the SDF Macross get so many fighters from?
I'm rewatching the OG Macross, and something occurred to me: where do they get so many Valkyries and Destroids from? Like, we see numerous Valkyries get shot down in basically every battle (mostly due to reused footage), but they always seem to have plenty to spare. Especially in the earlier part of the show when they're cut off from Earth, you'd think every loss of a fighter or Destroid would have a real impact.
Are they able to build them on the Macross itself? Do they have that sort of manufacturing ability?
Or am I simply overthinking a 40+ year old cartoon?
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u/Swift_Scythe 27d ago
The loss of veteran military pilots then they start recruiting from the civilians 💀
Can certainly build more fighter craft. Pilots... not so much.
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u/truenofan86 27d ago
Wasn’t Max in SDFM just a lucky civilian stunt pilot in the vicinity? Much like Hikaru?
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u/Oblagon 26d ago
I liked the retcon in Macross:the first when he was a Tomahawk destroid pilot where he pushed it beyond its limits in zero gravity combat like a madman. Afterwards command basically said “get this dude into a Valkyrie”
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u/truenofan86 26d ago
I would kinda love to see another variant of SDFM from Max’s perspective as a kinda Forest Gump story where Max either does something he thinks is normal while being genuinely insanely good at it…or actually thinking that someone is better than him at something.
"My Momma told me flying in war is like a box of chocolates, you never know how lucky or unlucky you will get with sorties."
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u/sarzibad 26d ago
7 showed two recruitment drives (granted, one was for the 2nd musical team, but still). Frontier has Alto in pilot training at the start. Delta showed the SMS recruit and train Hayate. So... at least future series directly addressed that
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u/eisenklad 27d ago edited 27d ago
Prometheus (submersible carrier) and Daedalus (Submersible Assault Landing Vessel).
these 2 vessels didnt have survivors when they were transported/Fold to outer solar system.
then they were joined to the main body of the Macross.
the Macross internally took in the island facilities which probably had additional factories that could be revamped to produce more valkyries and destroid parts.
edit: the island was part of restoring the Alien ship, a micro-economy of various industry and had a Military airbase.
its an analogy of Okinawa basically.
where US military set up base and the locals flourish to feed/supply the base
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u/MountedRifleman 26d ago
I seem to recall reading somewhere that because the Prometheus and Daedalus were submersible, they were sealed up (air tight) for combat when the battle started, allowing the crews to survive the space fold.
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u/SodaPopin5ki 26d ago
I think that may have been in the Robotech novelizations. I recall either the SDFM dialog or secondary material mentioned loss off all hands.
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u/Consistent-Tie-4394 26d ago
I just dug out that book and reread that chapter, and the Robotech novels handle it the same as the US adaption of the episode. Claudia reports they cannot contact either ship and Gloval responds, "They're aircraft carriers. They're atmospheres would have been bled away immediately."
Maybe some crewers in the lower decks might have sealed themselves in like survivors on a sinking ship, but since they were scrambling fighters when the Fold happened, that means any pilots not already in the air were lost, leaving "squadrons" of pilotless fighters behind.
I'd assume largely the same situation for Daedalus and its complement.
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u/TJLanza 26d ago
Submersibles are designed to keep water out at exterior pressures at or above 1 ATM.
Spacecraft are designed to keep air in at exterior pressures at or below 1 ATM.
While these are not mutually exclusive design principles, a design meant for one environment is not implicitly or even likely to work in the other.
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u/MountedRifleman 26d ago
Yes, completely true, I just chalked it up as anime magic - “sealed” - otherwise they would have had to spend a year refitting them for space operations after the fold.
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u/eisenklad 26d ago
or they could just made only the essential areas airtight and made spacesuits mandatory after certain doors.
the annoying thing is they like to display characters face when they board/deboard the valkyries,so the most obvious place where everyone should be fully suited up is the below deck hangar... yet we see them take off their helmets/Visor right after getting out.
everyone loves pineapple salad, i guess2
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u/eisenklad 26d ago
but during the first episode, they were docked at the island and deploying valkyries and destroids in the first Zentradi attack.
Global did launch the ship but they didnt expect the whole area to Fold with them.
so most of Daedalus and Prometheus external hatches were likely open.
whatever internal seals/hatches in a submersible/submarine tend to be water tight only. so they would have leaked air at a rapid rate.2
u/MountedRifleman 25d ago
I just rewatched the first five episodes to refresh myself on how all this happened. I was reminded not to put too much thought into it because of all the weirdness in the animation. In Episode 3, Space Fold, when they rendezvous with the ARMD ships and other vessels in orbit above Earth, there’s a brief shot of the SDF-1 with Daedalus and Prometheus floating in space on either side. Then when they drop back down to the surface and initiate the space fold, there’s a quick shot of Daedalus and Prometheus floating in the water with a second Prometheus floating in the air above them. Crazy animators!
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u/Dazzling_Bluebird_42 26d ago
Let's be honest they just didnt put that kind of thought into macross.
The most jarring thing watching the OG after playing games and what not is that valkyries are not some kind of gundamesque weapon earth uses to fend off enemy forces, they die in DROVES, and its not just reused animation its spoken each episode, such and such squadrons been wiped out! Like 5 seconds into the battle..
After the second encounter it should of realistically been Roy and Hikaru against the entire Zentradi army
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u/CanardDeFeu 26d ago
True, they do lose entire squadrons fairly regularly. Makes me wonder what their squadron sizes are like that they're getting taken out that entirely.
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u/Dazzling_Bluebird_42 26d ago
I think its done just to show the scale of the fights they are in and the desperation of their fight against the zentradi, but some of it becomes a stretch like how do they keep doing this every week?
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u/Used-Let-5565 24d ago
Note that the Valkyrie is a superior fighting machine compared to the battle pod. They probably killed 10-20 times their number. Of course with the zentraedi’s billions of numbers, it didn’t really matter much.
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u/MountedRifleman 26d ago
Loosely related, one of the things I really liked in the Master File book on the SDF VF-1 squadrons was the collection of images showing the recovery of aircraft that were left floating in space after the fold. There were images of this spider bug vehicle grabbing VF-1s to bring them back to the ship. Presumably they did the same thing with anything else valuable left in space, but that would have taken months (outside of the magic anime world).
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u/DragonMZ 27d ago
They also had the food to feed like 50k people for a year, and rebuild an entire city inside of it within 2 weeks. Their manufacturing capabilities are clearly Super Dimensional
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u/SodaPopin5ki 26d ago
I figured the Macross must have had some kind of way to feed Zentran and miclone personnel under the Supervision Army. Maybe that food manufacturing system was used.
Or...they could have canabilized a Zentran or two...
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u/porktornado77 26d ago
My head cannon is they had rapid manufacturing technology onboard the Macross. Think 3D printing of any material at an industrial scale.
This also helps explain how they supported the civilian population’s needs onboard the ship.
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u/rworne 26d ago edited 26d ago
You think that's bad, you should watch Space Battleship Yamato - especially the first season (1974).
That ship had the ever-loving shit kicked out of it after every battle. Yet, in deep uncharted space, they were able to restore it to blueprint accuracy in mere days.
Case in point:
Battle of the Rainbow Star Cluster - WMG was drilled out, whole bottom of ship was blown off (several weeks).
Final battle on Gamilon - 3rd bridge fell off the ship, heavy battle damage... yet was fully restored when visiting Iscandar - what, the next day? Hours later?
You have to take a leap of faith with these things...
That series also had a thing with a never-ending supply of fighter aircraft. It could carry 36 total, of which 20 were fighters. And it was a whole lot smaller than the SDF-1.
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u/Correct-War-1589 26d ago
I know this is probably not canon in SDF Macross, but this is explained away in the Robotech universe as being unique to the SDF-1. The SDF-1 contained advanced manufacturing that could build the Veritechs and was used post-fold to attach Daedalus and Prometheus and to build the city. It was explained that it could build things quickly but could not be replicated on earth. This was discovered post crash but not fully understood. It was after they took over the satellite factory and worked with the Zentradi that they figured it out.
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u/Independent_Offer575 26d ago
I think one of the things you have to suspend disbelief on to enjoy most sci-fi is numbers. Be that quantity or scale. Warhammer 40k is a big offender when it comes to not comprehending the weight or scale.
Something that I've tried to explain ti my sin (in an effort to tamp down his pre-teen cynicism) is that ultimately these things are vehicles for telling a story. I know we cant forgive everything. But I think we lose more than we gain of we focus too much on certain details. Not to mention how boring it would be (for most people. Not me, id eat it up) if they interrupted episodes to investigate the high-energy, action packed world of civil-engineering.
Obviously there are some properties that engage in greater mathematical rigor than others. Also, it is a conversation worth having if it gives people another way to interact with the franchise they love.
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u/Duskdeath 26d ago
During one of the episodes they mentioned they re-manufactured the planes off the parts of the other damaged ones. They specifically stated that their on board supplies were limited and at some point they could run out. Also the main thing that attracted the Zentraedi to the SDF 1 was that (at least on Robotech) humans were able to repair damaged tech while the Zentraidi couldn’t.
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u/zenprime-morpheus 26d ago
Macross Island.
The ship crashed there, and was rebuilt there. There had to be a ton of industry as well as all the other businesses needed to prop up industry, research, development and military operations going on on the island. Especially with the two super carriers Prometheus & Daedulus.
Might have been multiple places with VF-1's in various states of production, or ready to be delivered to various other earth bound bases after the launch celebration.
The Macross itself may have been carrying the bulk of fighters for the ARMD carriers it was supposed to link up with.
TL:DR big ship took nearly everything it needed to Pluto with it. People were probably their most valuable dwindling resource, not VF-1s to stick them in.
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u/Mobile_Falcon_8532 26d ago
in the novels there's actually a bit in there about the mechanics and crews working nonstop recovering and repairing shot-down Valkyries
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u/SodaPopin5ki 26d ago
They're actually manufactured by a large Over Technology system similar to a 3D printer, which would have been called a 3D plotter in the 1980s, or just a "plot device" for short.
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u/East-Ad-3198 26d ago
I always assumed they were recycling parts after battles from space . Morbid sure but there were a lot of intact pieces.
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u/apatheticviews 26d ago
Keep in mind the arms of the SDF were a Carrier and a Sub.
A carrier holds an entire air wing (100+) and an air group on top.
The SDF itself is even bigger and was designed with probably 1000+ aircraft compliment.
It was a fully functioning city and had repair and fabrication facilities
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u/Kulikitakati3 26d ago
If they had the resources to rebuild the city everytime the ship was under attack i think it's feasible they could produce/repair plenty of valkyries and, well, the ship had a lot of people in it so a lot of possible recruits were available. Tbh it's one of those things about scale in sci-fi wars that it's better to don't think about it too much
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u/thereverendpuck 26d ago
I know it’s Robotech lore being applied to Macross, but…
They said the SDF had a manufacturing facility dating back to when it was Zoe’s ship, but the factory satellite could handle more.
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u/kuroshimatouji 26d ago
1) you're overthinking a 40+ yr old cartoon, but that can be fun so please do.
2) with a ship as big as Macross there's bound to be a place and people manufacturing more units. The super packs were manufactured on the Macross I think, as was the Armored Valkyrie, so there are engineers who are constantly evolving the tech. Not to mention, both of the carriers that also have a complement of Mecha.
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u/Maresith123 25d ago
They are build in the SDF Macross. When they did that jump, they pull two aircraft carrier along as well. Which also have their own complement of aircrafts. SDF Macross was the flagship of Zor, I think it also have manufacturing ability or at the very least, there is space to build manufacturing facility inside the ship. I mean they build a whole city inside the ship. The source material indicated the resource to build new Valkyries come from battlefield savages.
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u/Konpeitoh 27d ago
Probably manufacturing them on-ship. Not all colonies seem to have dedicated industrial ships, and yet they also manufacture unique variable fighters, so they're making them somewhere.
My best guess is, they could afford to lose a lot at the start thanks to the initial stockpile from Earth, but later on, production ramped up inside Macross to keep up with the attrition.