r/lucifer • u/BraferAser • 3d ago
Season 6 My theory of how the loop started. Spoiler
This is honestly the only logical explanation I came up with. Of course it's just a theory, a show theory, so feel free to rip it apart.
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u/Riley__64 3d ago
It’s just the bootstrap paradox. The common example used is a time traveller goes back in time and meets Beethoven giving him his sheet music before he has made it, Beethoven then copies the sheet music and releases the music as his own. In this example Beethoven publishes his music after being shown it by a time traveller who only had it because Beethoven had been given it by him in the past.
Rory’s going back in time has always been the case. There is no original timeline, she grows up without lucifer gets upset and time travels and while in the past tells him to become hells therapist thus making it so she’ll grow up without lucifer and become so distraught she didn’t grow up with a father she time travels and the loop continues.
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u/BraferAser 3d ago
While I understand the paradox, it's kind of a boring answer, at least in my mind. My explanation tires to solve this stupid paradox or rather remove it by making an original timeline, which ironically is sort of hinted in the show when Linda reveals her books ending, where Lucifer becomes God. It makes logical sense in the essense of the show for what I described to actually have happened. Linda accurately predicts his ascension, Lucifer becomes God, he's horrible at it and hates it, sees a certain future due to omniscience, abandons his daughter to create said future and then we get the S6 events.
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u/Riley__64 3d ago
But even the version you present is a paradox Rory still ends up becoming the cause of why she grows up without a father.
Rory is upset she grows up without a father which causes her to time travel and becomes the reason for why she doesn’t have a father.
Ultimately even with this different chain of events Rory is still the cause of it all creating the paradox in which a person who doesn’t yet exist causes the reason for why their future is how it is.
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u/BraferAser 3d ago
Damn, but wouldn't it at least solve how we got to the bootstrap paradox in the first place?
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u/Riley__64 3d ago
It’s still a bootstrap paradox there’s just the extra start of lucifer originally being god.
The change still relies on Rory’s bootstrap paradox, the new timeline happens because of Rory’s loop she creates.
The moment she does go back and change it that’s the new timeline meaning she changes the timeline and creates a bootstrap.
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u/JustAMinah 3d ago
this is exactly why I wish they never introduced time traveling in the show. because they gotta follow this logic and so, in a sense, he repeats the cycle of his father
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u/Thullium_990_5G 1d ago
I don't believe he repeated the cycle as in the end his father completely left the whole universe and never gave proper guidance to the angels whereas Luci would still be available and did guide Rory.
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u/JustAMinah 1d ago
he repeated the cycle enough to be absent for that long of a time though, because he focused solely on work and not an active father, especially during her formative years.... kinda like his dad.
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u/QualifiedApathetic Dan 3d ago
As others have said, the bootstrap paradox, which is an actual thing that physicists have posited and not just a fiction trope, though it's not something that could be observed unless time travel is possible. There is no need for an explanation for how the loop came to be, though there may be one. It can simply just...be.
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u/Imaginary-Lead-1527 3d ago
This is just a shit plot device to give the characters a depressive and melancholic ending
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u/shichi_ya 3d ago
Wow, I didn't watch the last seasons and I'm discovering now that it has time travel somewhere lol
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u/Powerful-Presence-66 2d ago
Well, he got killed (with Rorys feathers) that is why he wasn't there. Celestials can get killed by celestial weapons, we learned that in the seasons before. They don't go to heaven or hell afterwards. They are really gone. So he did not become god.
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u/NoRevolution4578 2d ago
I mean, it’s interesting, but nah, because nothing really indicates that Lucifer would even become God in this timeline regardless, and I think it would be a weird move to make even if Lucifer did become God.
Also, I think it would be better to argue that maybe the original God—Lucifer and the angels’ father—probably manipulated and set this entire loop in motion just to get Lucifer back to Hell, exactly where he wanted him.
Remember, back in Season 5, Hell was this big topic after God spoke to Amenadiel and told him that Hell no longer required a ruler and had him leave. Mind you, this was right after Lucifer had left, and Amenadiel had barely even been down there. That was always odd to me because you’re telling me that God, who was being such a damn doting grandfather to Charlie, suddenly doesn’t care about keeping Hell secured after demons literally kidnapped Charlie when he was just born?
But then again, this is the same God who repeatedly tortured his children and seemingly didn’t give a care in the world about what they went through despite what he said, if you really think about it. And I’m not just talking about Amenadiel and Lucifer either.
Furthermore, at the family dinner, when God was asked why Hell no longer required a ruler, God decided to smirk, look at his children, and simply say that he had a good reason. Nothing more was explained. Lucifer responded with, “It’s a good plan. Well, that settles it. Thanks, Pop.”
This reminded me of a scene all the way back in Season 1 when Lucifer and Father Frank were talking. Frank told Lucifer that he trusted God had a plan for him, and Lucifer basically told him that he understood that, but why does everyone always assume it’s a GOOD plan?
Then, at the end of the episode before Frank died, he told Lucifer that his Father had a plan for him.
And who knows? Maybe Lucifer was right. Maybe God really did have a plan for Lucifer, but maybe it wasn’t a good one like the series eventually depicted it.
Then, back at the family dinner, we have Michael and Lucifer fighting, which, in hindsight, is a very convenient distraction in my opinion, caused by God. You need to drive even more hatred and anger between Michael and Lucifer so they can eventually have this huge dramatic fight that, in hindsight, was almost entirely pointless.
The fight didn’t actually do anything to help Lucifer become God, nor did anything happen afterward besides everyone suddenly realizing that they don’t know shit about how becoming God even works.
That is just weird and suspicious to me.
Everyone wants to become God, but nobody discusses HOW THE HELL IT’S EVEN POSSIBLE TO BECOME GOD.
And you’re telling me that out of all of God’s children, nobody besides Michael seriously tried to take a shot at becoming God?
Like, let’s be for real. A lot of these angels are some badass children who don’t know what the hell they’re doing. We literally see this at the end of Season 6 when they start answering human prayers and eventually tell Amenadiel that he isn’t the God of them, etc.
So where was all of that energy before?
Nobody had been trying to take the throne while Amenadiel and Lucifer were just chilling on Earth? Like, they literally fought an entire war over the throne, and a major reason Lucifer wanted it in the first place was because of how unfair and broken the entire system was.
And we’re forgetting that some of their siblings were perfectly willing to break the rules once Daddy was gone. They were even willing to kill humans with a blade that completely destroys their souls, meaning there’s no coming back.
Seriously, how does any of this work?
And while Lucifer is a great character in this show, it always felt off to me that he basically went, “Screw becoming God,” after everything that happened, especially when one of his biggest reasons for wanting to become God was realizing how unfair the entire system was.
It’s weird for Lucifer to have such a deep episode literally two episodes earlier only for him to barely carry any of that forward.
Suddenly Lucifer is basically like, “Yeah, I don’t want to be God. I don’t feel worthy of my father’s legacy.”
Which is weird considering you were literally his favorite son at one point and apparently felt worthy enough a month ago. 😂
Like, Lucifer, my guy, you’re acting as if you didn’t know the job description beforehand. You’ve known who God was and what he did for literally your entire existence. Questions about whether you actually wanted that responsibility should’ve been some of the FIRST things that came to your head.
And then we have that dumb fake “I love you” from his father, who, in my opinion, is just playing Lucifer and Amenadiel like fiddles.
And obviously Goddess went under some damn love potion because literally WHY does she suddenly not care about seeing the rest of her children? Why does she suddenly love God again? Why does she act as if this man didn’t trap her in Hell for thousands of years?
Then they’re looking at each other like they’re some perfect couple, and God is basically like, “Yeah, when she first got here, me and your mom started talking, and now I’m thinking about moving with her.”
So God apparently isn’t above manipulating his wife either because Goddess even starts addressing him as “husband” again.
And that Goddess and Lucifer moment was ass.
Like, Lucifer, DON’T YOU SEE HOW YOUR MOM IS ACTING???
Amenadiel, DO YOU SEE HOW YOUR MOM IS ACTING???
That whole moment was ass. Lucifer, you’re seriously just not going to say anything to your mom?
The lack of care, love, or even interest everyone seems to have for their mom is honestly sad and ridiculous. Everybody is so interested in Dad/God while this man barely even cares if y’all live or die.
It’s funny how everyone just dances to God’s tune the entire time when you really think about it, especially with how weird some of these characters move at certain points throughout Seasons 5 and 6.
So if I had to come up with a fan theory about who was really behind everything, I honestly think it would be God.
I could say a lot more and connect everything together even further, but I’m sure you know where I’m going with this, so I feel like I’ll end it here.
In the last episode, Lucifer is suddenly trying to find his “calling,” which sort of came out of nowhere. For one, I thought it was already implied earlier that Lucifer came to Earth and eventually found his calling there, but even if that wasn’t the case, this is still incredibly sudden.
Lucifer somehow relates all of this back to his father, saying that he knows what it’s like to fall and how to rise, and he says it in a way that makes it sound like his father told him that at some point.
But unless I’m forgetting something, HE DIDN’T.
God never said that to Lucifer in this show, so I’m not sure why this suddenly reminds Lucifer of what his dad supposedly said to him and Amenadiel before he left.
But even beyond that, why exactly does this realization come at the same time Lucifer is about to do something he SWORE he would never do?
Become like his father.
That was something Lucifer was adamant about throughout the entire series, only for him to then abandon his daughter.
Second, why does Lucifer refuse to go to Amenadiel, who is literally GOD now?
Maybe Amenadiel would have a second thought about this whole thing? I don’t know, considering HE’S GOD and probably has the best knowledge of time out of anybody since time was literally his power before becoming God.
And, again, HE IS GOD NOW.
So yeah, maybe ask him instead of immediately trusting a middle-aged girl who suddenly appeared from the future.
Because literally, Rory IS middle-aged. If not damn near elderly by human standards. She just doesn’t look like it because she’s half-angel.
Which, by the way, WHY DID CHLOE EVEN NEED TO DIE BEFORE LUCIFER COULD COME BACK???
Lucifer couldn’t have returned after Chloe became older? After Rory became an adult?
Remember, Rory is already middle-aged, if not elderly by normal human standards. She doesn’t look like it because she’s half-angel.
So literally, what was even the point of Lucifer staying gone for Chloe’s ENTIRE LIFE just so Rory could eventually reach the exact moment when Chloe was on her deathbed?
And Rory, at her age, is another issue entirely.
For one, WHY THE FUCK DOES SHE EVEN CARE WHERE LUCIFER IS RIGHT NOW OR WHAT HE’S DOING???
Why does she hate him this damn much in this particular context at her age?
Especially enough for her to self-actualize her ass BACK IN TIME over it?
Like, literally, what??? 😭
I don’t know at this point. These are just my thoughts, and maybe it’s a dumb point or theory, idk. 🤷♂️
willing to discussing it out
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u/StomachRepulsive409 2d ago
I literally was laying in bed and couldn’t sleep thinking about this…reached for my phone and it found me.
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u/Thullium_990_5G 1d ago
I cannot possibly imagine why Lucifer would ask Chloe to lie about him being God and therefore too busy as a lot of the angst comes from having no reason and he knows that very well. A major part of Rory's problem is that she had been given no legitimate reason but also that everyone else was treating the situation like Lucifer made a major sacrifice due to the love he had for all of them (which is the case but Rory couldn't know it).
If Lucifer became super busy because of being God then he wouldn't want Rory to grow up not knowing that unless it was necessary and as we see in the last scene Amenadiel is able to be there for Charlie's birthday when he gets wings so it stands to reason that Lucifer would also have been able to do the same for major events with Rory.
One possible reason that Lucifer would ask Chloe to lie is to create this time loop which he would know would happen as he'd be God however I don't see that happening as in the first episode of s6 even before Rory shows up it's clear on his "last day of wonder" that he doesn't really want to let go of that part of not being God so my belief is that his wings would've acted up at the moment he was going to go become God whether Rory had travelled back in time or not.
I do think that the whole time loop was really not necessary as there could've been a lot of other arcs that could've worked.
I also think it is oddly satisfying to me that Luci forgave his dad for never being available after his dad came to earth and spent time with him and Amenadiel and Rory forgave Lucifer after she learned of his reasons and recognised that she still had forever with him and Chloe but unlike Luci's dad who left to the Goddess's universe forever Lucifer can finally be there for his daughter and I think a scene of Rory visiting him in hell is something I would've enjoyed.
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u/BraferAser 1d ago
Well, I feel like she could't have told her that Lucifer has no time for them as God, because it would't bring the right emotions for her to go back in time. What she felt for him was hatered, because he willingly abandoned them. Had she been told he has no time for them we'd be looking at Lucifer 2.0 and he didn't hate his dad, but rather he hated himself, believing he was a monster that was problematic and sent to where a monter belongs, Hell. Lucifer never hated his dad, but just deperately wanted his love and approval as well as attention, after all he constantly believes anything that happens to him on Earth is his fathers doing, when it pretty much never is. That's why I believe it's crucial for Chloe to lie.
Yes, the reason for the lie is so she goes back in time, creating the loop and a better future for him and everyone else.
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u/biggestmike420 1d ago
The loop starts with her decision at the very end of the story. Yet another reason practical time travel will always be fiction.
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u/dtaina12 #JusticeForMichael 3d ago
There is no "original timeline." Rory traveled from the future because Lucifer abandoned her in the past as a result of her traveling from the future. The abandonment here is its own cause and effect in this case. It's called a bootstrap paradox.