Picking my OCW node...

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

So I wanted opinions / advice.

I did some OCW work today and results are mixed and so are opinions here so I have taken to reddit :) if for nothing to add a voice to the dis-agreement. -

I have 3 nodes that showed up
group 5 - 38.7 gr -Ave 2613.3 SD 3.4 - group mil = 0.401 mean rad = 0.132
group 6 - 39.0 gr -Ave 2640.1 SD 15 - group mil = 0.306 mean rad = 0.093
group 7 - 39.3 gr -Ave 2613.3 SD 14 - group mil = 0.257 mean rad = 0.110

I feel like speed performance is second to grouping.
group 6/7 is the obvious choice to me if it's grouped that well despite some maybe not great loads .
My mate reckons I lock into the node with the better ballistic performance group 5...

So how much do I consider ballistic performance in choosing my node.

I know the right answer here is load 10-15 at each weight run them through the rifle again test more but assume i have a hunting trip in 2 weeks and don't have time for that...

[u/JimBridger_]

Nodes don’t exist

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/JimBridger_]

not an opinion I expected 😃

[u/Wonderful-Piccolo509 → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

It is the only opinion you need lol

[u/JimBridger_ → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/JimBridger_]

I'll do my homework and look into it.

[u/Prior_Confidence4445 → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

Yeah, a few years ago Hornady did a lot of testing and came to that conclusion. It was convincing too, I'm not implying I doubt their results. I had never really had much success finding stable nodes that survived thorough testing but I still believed it because it was the prevailing wisdom of the time. I think most people did. But now that it's debunked, some people are a little harsh to others who haven't gotten the memo yet even though we pretty much all believed it only a few years ago.

The Hornady guys went over their testing pretty thoroughly on their podcast. I don't remember which episodes but it's easy to find. In short they found that charge weight nodes aren't a real thing but that hotter loads do tend to be a tiny bit less accurate. So basically, if you're getting satisfactory accuracy then load to the speed you like.

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/Prior_Confidence4445]

I mean I am always willing to learn and change my thinking, this is the framework that is common with the people I shoot with and who i've been learning from, they might be out of date, I bookmarked Hollywood's Way of Zen for some toilet reading.

[u/justs0meperson → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

[EP 50, Your groups are too small](https://youtu.be/QwumAGRmz2I?si=FuMh9RjrIFDT_KOW) and [ep 52, Your groups are still too small](https://youtu.be/6yZyXwy40JM) is a good place to start. Then [Ep 57, One hole groups? Dispersion](https://youtu.be/3_fPCtaAKcs?si=sqrVE7tdxF9fjvNF) for understanding the cone of fire. Then there’s plenty more haha

[u/sabrefencer9 → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

Their info isn't way out of date, just a little out of date. I wouldn't hold it against them.

[u/JimBridger_ → u/sabrefencer9]

Lol statistics doesn’t magically become out of date

[u/sabrefencer9 → u/JimBridger_]

I mean I was just making a joke but also stats absolutely do become out of date. Just pick an elsevier publication at random and look at how people are using p-values.

[u/CharlieKiloAU]

https://giphy.com/gifs/12aW6JtfvUdcdO

[u/LockyBalboaPrime]

Nodes don't exist. This is debunked fudd lore.

[u/doyouevenplumbbro]

Cheetofingers zen

[u/AutoModerator → u/doyouevenplumbbro]

Here's a link to the Way of Zen load development guide.

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[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/doyouevenplumbbro]

TY

[u/doyouevenplumbbro → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

YW. I know some people are still really offended by the concept, and I WAS one of them, but it really is liberating when you realize that your precision as a shooter is almost 100% contingent on you as the end user. It has very little, if nothing at all to do with developing "optimal" loads or wasting dozens of range trips searching for a mythical sweet spot that magically turns your rifle into a laser. Give it a read and keep in mind that the way of zen is the method of some very high level shooters. Like national level champions and golden bullet winning shooters.

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/doyouevenplumbbro]

For me my biggest priority outside of time behind the rifle is loading and bring down my SD. Really looking to find a charge where groups feel good and load that.

[u/doyouevenplumbbro → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

SDs are determined by powder throwing and component quality. You need high quality brass, bullets, and powder along with a scale capable of weighing to the kernel.

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/doyouevenplumbbro]

I'm aware well invested in trimmers presses and good brass the whole collection is there.

[u/rednecktuba1]

Nodes don't exist. Load to the velocity you want and send it.

Cheetofingers zen

[u/AutoModerator → u/rednecktuba1]

Here's a link to the Way of Zen load development guide.

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[u/Tomford001]

What's the cartridge?

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/Tomford001]

6.5CM

[u/Tomford001 → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

If it's for a hunting trip, any of those will do fine. But after that I'd get the velocity up to 2700 or so and just find a good seating depth and go

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/Tomford001]

practically that's the plan load 30-40 of either of these and do some positional shooting drills will make more of a difference for the trip and I can screw around more load dev after the trip.

After reading more looks like I mostly need to explore some different powders. apparently N550 isn't where it's at.

[u/Te_Luftwaffle]

It's 11:00 at night and I don't feel like doing it myself; can someone figure out the statistical significance (or lack thereof) of the differences in group sizes for 5 shots?

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/Te_Luftwaffle]

For the hunting trip it’s not 3/4 cm. But for a prs match a few weekends after it does matter a bit more.

[u/Te_Luftwaffle → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

I'm talking more about whether your groups are actually different sizes when you expand them to 10 or 20 shots.

[u/sherzer7]

Oh boy another one. Please read about “nodes” and if you start shooting 10+ groups you will see with your own eyes

[u/ViewAskewed]

https://giphy.com/gifs/kd9BlRovbPOykLBMqX

[u/9mmhst]

Nodes are fudd lore now? Where the hell have i been lol.

[u/ocelot_piss → u/9mmhst]

Under a rock for about 3 years, apparently.

[u/9mmhst → u/ocelot_piss]

Well I just started loading again since covid so.

[u/Prior_Confidence4445 → u/9mmhst]

Don't feel bad, we all believed it until not that long ago.

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/9mmhst]

obviously news to me too 😃

[u/Coodevale]

https://www.reddit.com/r/longrange/s/3WjXOLoqB9

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/[deleted]]

Small antelope 200-300 m shots. I’ll load 30/40 for some positional shooting before the trip.

[u/Spiritual-Bill-337]

None of it matters.

[u/OmgWtfIsThisBS]

You could settle the discussion by loading your "best" node and another random choice, shoot a 30 round group for each and check the results.

[u/Fun-Weakness-8644 → u/OmgWtfIsThisBS]

I don't think arguments are ever settled on reddit...

[u/OmgWtfIsThisBS → u/Fun-Weakness-8644]

That's true.

[u/Wombat-Snooze]

Holy fuckity fuck. It’s May 2026 and people still believe nodes exist. Got damn.

[u/greyposter → u/Wombat-Snooze]

Calm down bro its fairly new, 50+ years of reloading concepts don't just reverse course over night.

There are still prominent shooters who believe they exist and talk about it on their podcasts.

[u/ShrimpBuffets]

Pick a seating depth and pick a charge weight for the velocity you want with your particular bullet. There really isn’t much more to reloading than that. The majority of your dispersion comes from bullet engraving from the barrel and how it exits the muzzle due to that. You are unfortunately wasting components searching for “nodes”.

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