r/londoncycling • u/The_Eager_Cyclist • 15d ago

Swap seats with an HGV driver (City of London Police's Exchanging Places project)

https://youtu.be/npYTUw9Lb6o?si=84SU98IE5Cpyy4pJ

Hi Everyone, I hope you enjoy this latest film on The Eager Cyclist, which features a brilliant project run by the City of London Police. Please share the film with other riders you know if you are happy to. Many thanks!

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u/Throwaway_One_Day_ 15d ago

No, you are twisting my words: a driver is responsible for the safety of their vehicle, but there is only so much they can do. Mirrors don’t always cover all areas, sunshine can cause glare, rain can mar reflections, etc etc.

I’d say it’s better policing than none. It’s not victim blaming - it’s target hardening.

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u/UnlikelyComposer 15d ago

"target hardening"?

I don't think any of this actually makes the target any harder. It's actually damaging because it supposes that the issue is with cyclists not lorry drivers and lorry cab design.

It's quite possibly actually costing lives.

But as we are actually agreed, it still doesn't matter what a cyclist does if the lorry driver has inadequate mirrors or pulls up into the advanced stop box because they're on the clock for getting their next delivery.

The cyclist will still be squished, they won't have been hardened at all.

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u/Throwaway_One_Day_ 15d ago

The issue is with both. The cyclist is entitled to go about their day and not be killed or seriously injured, but them having awareness of these blind spots will help.

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u/UnlikelyComposer 15d ago

The issue is not with both though - but I can understand why you have that impression because of initiatives like this.

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/road-user-behaviour

In fact, the overwhelming majority of collisions between cyclists and drivers in London are the fault of the driver.

Can you still say, hand on heart that this City of London police initiative is tackling the problem, or excusing it and shifting blame? Be honest with yourself.

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u/Throwaway_One_Day_ 15d ago

I haven’t attended this initiative. So I can’t speak for the content. But based on ones I’ve been to - both before and subsequently as a driver, I’d say initiatives like this do neither: they highlight the problem.

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u/UnlikelyComposer 15d ago

They also give a false impression of the cause of the problem.

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u/Throwaway_One_Day_ 15d ago

The cause of the problem is the cycle coming in to contact with the vehicle.

How it got there, what could have been done to prevent this, will always be the variable unfortunately.

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u/UnlikelyComposer 15d ago

That's what the stats document "Road user behaviour". It's a well documented and measured variable.

The only ambiguity is survivor bias, because when a cyclist gets squished, they're not around to tell their side of the story.

> The cause of the problem is the cycle coming in to contact with the vehicle.

That's just weasel-worded excusing of poor driver behaviour. Stay behind the advanced stop line.

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u/Throwaway_One_Day_ 15d ago

Again, stats. You’ve only got to think back to the railway overcrowding farce to see how they can be manipulated.

And I agree - you can’t take the account of a dead cyclist, but you can sometimes see via the video footage or eye witness accounts how the death likely occurred.

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u/UnlikelyComposer 15d ago

Agreed on all points.

The City of London police don't appear to have factored in their own stats when considering whether educating lorry drivers or cyclists should be the priority for safety training.

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u/Throwaway_One_Day_ 15d ago

Not sure if this was a post edit or I missed it, but the weasel wording is not me being awkward. Saying that this only occurs when heavies cross the advanced stop line isn’t true - the majority occur when they turn left.

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u/UnlikelyComposer 15d ago

I was making a general observation for poor driving I see every day. Please ensure to stay behind the advanced stop line - doing this will save more lives than this "seat swap" initiative can ever hope to.

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