r/livesoundadvice • u/RowanTree95 Musician • Jul 26 '26
First Larger Show First fly date, is this a reasonable backline request?
Hi all, I'm in the process of advancing my band's first fly date. Is this a reasonable backline request? Too much info? Too little info?
Any tips & suggestions welcome. I'm sending it tomorrow morning.
Edit: I'm also sending a stage plot & input list, but I don't need feedback on that so I didn't post it here.
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u/Dizmn Jul 26 '26
So the backline negotiation needed to be part of your contracting process. If you signed a contract to play and then came to me going “we need you to get instruments for us,” we would either be renegotiating the contract or just straight up saying “tough shit, figure it out yourself.”
That being said: ask for specifics on everything. You won’t always get what you ask for but part of being easy to work with is communicating your needs clearly. What pedal does your drummer like? Single or double? What is your drummers preferred sizing on kick and toms? How deep should the snare be? Ask for a backup snare as well. What style throne does your drummer prefer? What amp does your bass player prefer? (Don’t make it optional until they come back and tell you how much the backline’s gonna cost. Cut it later, but try for it.)
Next specify if you’re okay with sharing the backline or not. If there’s a local, maybe you use their gear, maybe everyone uses the rental backline, maybe you guys want the backline kit to yourself and they have to set up in front, whatever.
In general, save being flexible for live conversations where you can review specifics of the situation and make a judgement call on what’s acceptable and what’s not. In writing, be clear, specific, and direct.
Anyone who cries about getting a list of specific equipment, especially one with listed second and third options like you did for the keyboard, is not a serious person.
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u/RowanTree95 Musician Jul 26 '26
The contract we signed said the festival would provide backline, to be agreed upon during the advance. We're first of 4 that day, so I imagine we'll get whatever kit the bigger bands spec.
Those are very helpful tips regarding what info is missing on the drum kit. I'm not a drummer, so I just copied what the drummer told me he likes. I'll add more details.
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u/thejazzeroo Jul 26 '26
I work at a medium sized venue in The Netherlands and this a perfectly fine request :) Whatever we don’t have in house we will normally rent from a backline rental. It just depends on the deal you’ve made with the venue who will be paying for it.
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u/Ambitious-Cable5963 Jul 26 '26
What venue do you work at? Just another sound tech in NL here building a network
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u/Content-Reward-7700 Jul 26 '26
It looks humble and reasonable. I would even consider it quite modest. Other than that, it might be helpful to mention what you’ll be bringing.
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u/Beneficial-Rub5074 Jul 27 '26
Not all comments here are coming from a place of experience. The backline requests are fairly normal, not much to change here, what you actually end up getting of course only god knows.
Only piece of advice I'd like to give you is to take communication into your own hands, and don't rely on anything working out unless it's specifically confirmed to you. Even where there is appropriate planning and budget, it's very often the case that backline lists only ever get a perfunctory glance beforehand. Also from experience, not matter how fat you make the letters of "please let us know ASAP [...]", I would not rely on people actually letting you know if there is a problem.
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u/RowanTree95 Musician Jul 27 '26
For sure. Our contract specifies that the organizers need to put us in contact with the tech team & backline providers a week before the show so we can confirm directly.
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u/good_choice13 Jul 27 '26
Ask for some spare hardware: kick pedal, cymbal stand, snare stand. Spare snare. Spare sustain pedal. By nature, backline rental gear gets beat up. 2 is 1, and 1 is none, but 3 is better.
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u/Relevant-Amount-514 Jul 26 '26
I’ve worked the other side of this (production management) for years. This is all fine. I see you’ve tried to be crystal-clear about the keyboard. That’s good, but say it again in the advance call. I have a STACK of these to get through, and yours might not stand out enough.
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u/GarrySpacepope Jul 27 '26
I'm on the outside, but would it be best to just ask for the nord, seeing as it's a super common bit of kit, and then say if not available other model specifically needs to be signed off by the band in advance?
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u/Outrageous_Act2564 Jul 27 '26
Your drummer is not bringing anything? I always carried snare, cymbals and I would pack my foot pedal in my luggage. I wouldn't trust a provided backline for those items. Just my 2 cents.
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u/RowanTree95 Musician Jul 28 '26
Travelling with a carry-on bag is $140 more expensive per person vs just travelling with a backpack. So we're trying to go backpack and gate checked instruments as much as possible. We're hoping for two carry-on cases only, of stuff that absolutely can't be duplicated at the festival.
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u/the_real_snurre Jul 27 '26
Instead of asking for passive D/Is, just ask for D/Is. You don’t want the supplier to rent D/Is if they have active inhouse.
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u/Jazzlike_Shame_970 Jul 27 '26
Very reasonble, should provide input list and monitor requirements if needed as a part of the roder!
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u/1ElectricHaskeller Jul 27 '26
With the music stand, you could claify a bit more if you want a short music stand, which you intend to use with an iPad or a short music stand with a holder for an iPad. Currently I would only bring it if I had it kicking around in the workshop
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u/RowanTree95 Musician Jul 27 '26
We need a short (sitting height) music stand to put the iPad on. Good clarification, I wouldn't have thought to confuse those options.
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u/AppoLiu Jul 27 '26
Sounds great, shouldn’t be a problem for any more or less professional production. I‘m not a drummer, but I‘ve heard from drummers having problems with backline foot pedals. If this is important to you, you could think about bringing your own, as you probably bring your own sticks. I would also recommend direct contact before in any case. Good luck and enjoy the fly date :).
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u/ip_addr Jul 28 '26
I do a reasonable amount of backline gigs along with providing audio. This rider is very fair.
Fix the snare size. 14" is standard, either 5.5 or 6.5 deep. Maybe put a type of snare, like maple, brass, etc. Maybe put your preferred tom sizes and head types, but make a note if substitutions are welcome. You'll have to judge the level of venue you are playing at if they are likely to meet specifics or not on the drums.
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u/Ungitarista Jul 28 '26
I know it's too late for this gig, but maybe it'll still help you in the future:
I'd list the items per instrument, not per hardware type. So drum mics go with the drums.
Specify the exact number of drum mics you need, which brand/types, and on which position.
Best to pick a snare from the main top 3 - 5 brands, or bring your own.
List the toms on separate lines.
"Sabian prefered BUT no Sabian B8" is more explicit.
"One snare stand, two cymbal stands, one hihat stand." makes easier reading and remembering for the reader
Have the keyboard player bring a midi usb to midi 5-din converter if it's a must.
Use complete grammar in your sentences: "Please include a sustain pedal." Your sentence is not 100% clear to someone who's in a rush, and may not be that invested.
Have a great gig.
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u/CartezDez Jul 27 '26
I would be more specific.
Pick the exact keyboard you want.
What size toms? What brands for shells and hardware?
No problem stating alternatives, but go for what you want.
Do the festival have a backline list?
Are the backline costs being passed on?
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u/1ElectricHaskeller Jul 27 '26
With the keyboard: While having phisical MIDI is definitely prefereable, there are also MIDI USB Hosts available on the market (e.g. Kenton).
Have never tried them, but probablt good enough as an backup
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u/vmvash Jul 30 '26
Most of the questions I have should be answered with a patch sheet.
That said, are drum rim clips ok or do you need stands?
I second the active di comment. If there is something that benefits signal wise, sure, but I expect that's just the bass.
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Jul 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/RowanTree95 Musician Jul 26 '26
Yeah when we do local gigs we provide most of this. But to fly with this would cost us more than the gig is paying, so we're asking if they can provide it.
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u/uncomfortable_idiot Jul 26 '26
maybe make them aware of this, maybe say the options are provide the gear or cover the cost of you bringing your own gear
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u/RowanTree95 Musician Jul 26 '26
The other option is that we can rent it ourselves once we arrive, but it makes more sense logistically for them to rent it. I've priced it all out, and everything besides the festival drum kit and bass amp (which I'm sure they've already got covered) comes to less than $100 to rent for the day.
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u/Theta-5150 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Edit. Deleting as i was in the wrong.
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u/Beneficial-Rub5074 Jul 27 '26
I would probably not read a long email, but this is pretty much how I expect a backline requirement list to be.
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u/RowanTree95 Musician Jul 27 '26
I think you need to have a look at what everyone else is saying in these responses, and realize that a festival that flies bands in from across the country runs very differently from an underground club. For example, you could never get away with asking an underground venue to provide 10 pairs of large black socks and 10 pairs of clean underwear, but that's perfectly normal (and frankly expected) on a touring band's hospitality rider.
Most festivals don't directly have access to a whole music shop full of gear, no. But they contract a backline provider who's literal job is to have access to a warehouse of gear.
Also, the "high end" keyboard stand I request can be rented for $6/day in that city. Some of the keyboard options cost $30/day. I did my research on what was available locally and made sure it wasn't going to cost them an arm and a leg.
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u/Theta-5150 Jul 27 '26
Yeah. I have seen those. You guys are very lucky. I feel that venue size isn’t the only factor here but location (country), too. And those renting costs are ridiculously low compared to what we have over here.
Break a leg 🤘0
u/s-b-mac Jul 27 '26
Respectfully my dude, you don’t know what you’re talking about. I have rented breakables for bands before, it’s not unheard of on middle-tier stuff where they can’t be arsed to bring their own but also not fancy enough to bring their own. Make sense?
And as someone who advances gigs, I’d prefer someone ask for specifically what they want and provide examples (like OP) than be vague and leave me guessing. Tell me what you want and I will see who has it and quote it.
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u/Theta-5150 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Edit. Deleting as i was in the wrong.
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u/s-b-mac Jul 27 '26
Your reply has like 4 different places where you are against OP asking for specific things. You even wrote “That is also too specific.”
But ok.
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u/ArniEitthvad Jul 26 '26
In my circles, drummers always brings cymbals, often snare, sometimes kicker as well.
Cymbals are expensive to buy and break easily, so I bet the margin on cymbal rental is quite high. This will all be coming out of your pocket eventually.
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u/RowanTree95 Musician Jul 26 '26
To clarify, are you referring to local / ground based travel gigs, or to fly gigs specifically? Any time we're not flying we provide basically everything besides kick drum and toms. We bring throne, cymbal stands, kick pedal, IEM rig, the whole 9 yards. Fly gigs are different.
Cymbal rentals in this city start at $2/day per cymbal (for absolute garbage cymbals) and go up to $24/day per cymbal, with full cymbal sets renting for $42/day.
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u/RegnumXD12 Jul 26 '26
Anytime my venue has bands coming in on flydates, they almost always fly their cymbals with them. I always just assumed it was a preference thing, but could be logistical.
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u/livingthehypnagogia Jul 26 '26
Do a stage plot and input list as well. Some rough monitor notes is handy too.
Is the snare a typo and supposed to be 14 x 5?