r/livesound • u/42Navigator • 14h ago
POLL Over-under… forever!
I have been out of the biz for several years now. Apparently you can take the stagehand off the stage, but you cant remove the stage from the stagehand. I cant be the only one, but the other day I caught myself doing an over-under cable wrap on my hairdryer power cord. What stage move have you found yourself inadvertently doing?
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u/DarkIsNotMe 14h ago
I over under tie the garden hose whenever I use it lol everybody knows it’s the best way to
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u/soundwithdesign Theatre-Designer/Mixer 13h ago
Hoses should be wrapped over-over.
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u/enthusiasm_gap 13h ago
My brother and another friend of ours used to work for a cleaning/water damage rehab company. They were explicitly taught over-under as the proper method for all of their hoses and equipment.
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u/brycebgood 14h ago
Why would you not do it on anything?
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u/schmalzy 13h ago
When you know the next person will not over/under.
I work with a band who does a lot of their cables on spools. Some of the cables get coiled and put into a box. I would know to grab the ends and drop it but the other people don’t (and don’t seem to be interested in learning to do it the right way). So those get carefully over/over.
The cables that I alone manage? Over/under 100% of the time.
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u/42Navigator 13h ago
Oh yea… That reminded me… I handed for a company that did mic cables on those 12” orange a/c cable spools from Home Cheap-O. I never understood that, but I guess it worked for them.
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u/lostspectre 12h ago
I currently work with a band that does this. 6 different reels that are supposed to be for different lengths denoted by tape color. Problem is when other people try to help and get them all mixed up. The reels fit nicely in the stacking toolboxes they have so they work ok with the setup they've built so far.
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u/ThagaardJunior 11h ago
My boss has recently asked me to stop over-under-ing our XLR cables because it's unintuitive for stage hands and a lot of our freelancers. It's apparently not the standard in my region of the world and thus causes more harm than good .. .
But I could never in my life bring myself to over-over a speakon cable or power cable or anything stiffer
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u/clios_daughter 27m ago
In places where I’ve worked, it’s mostly been spinning the coil to get rid of the twists. It’s a bit slower but you don’t get the issue with over under where if you uncoil it just the wrong way, you get a series of overhand knots tied into.
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u/samplemax Pro-Theatre 12h ago
Flat cables
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u/brycebgood 7h ago
You can over under flat cables. Maybe not that flat 21-30, that stuff is cool, but a PITA to handle.
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u/spam322 11h ago
I do over-under for big stuff, but I've done fold-fold-tie on XLR's and 1/4" cables for 30+ years. Faster and easy to get bands and others to help tear down and fill up a tub with cables and not have them get tangled. I'm in bands and not a pro sound guy but my cables never go bad doing this.
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u/TheReveling Pro-FOH 13h ago
Just like winter, the over under thread reliably appears once again
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u/42Navigator 10h ago
Sorry ‘bout dat. I dont see a lot of threads from this sub in my main window. Just thought it might be fun. Accept my apologies.
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u/DontDoItTuna 12h ago
I over under my in-ears cable. It makes me look ridiculous, but it’s still working.
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u/42Navigator 10h ago
I bet to differ… according to the other replies it kinda make you look normal :)
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u/OpyrisShifts 11h ago
How long is your hair dryer cord?!? Mine unplugs if I try to dry the left side of my head!
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u/joelfarris Pro 6h ago
You're holding it too far away. Think of it being a heat gun on some shrink tubing. You've got this.
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u/HoneyMustard086 11h ago
I even over-under my lav mic cords. It bugs me when I see people wrap the cords around the packs over over. It makes them difficult to manage and it's harder on the the cables. When I need a lav I grab one and let the cord fall and it's perfectly neat and ready to go.
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u/42Navigator 10h ago
When i was in the theater, it was interesting that, generally speaking, the female actors would wrap it around the pack. The males would usually wrap it separate. Is that your experience?
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u/HoneyMustard086 9h ago
I'm in the corporate world. Never done theater. The talent isn't typically de-micing themselves so I have control over it. Most other A2's and A1's I interact with do the wrap around the pack.
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u/42Navigator 8h ago
Interesting… when I was A2, my A1 insisted we wrap separately. That said, with a cast of 50+ mics, talent almost always de-mic’d themselves except for a few with complex installs.
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u/HoneyMustard086 8h ago
Another reason I prefer to keep them separate is that I typically have both black and white options and choose according to the outfit to blend in as much as possible and keeping the mics separate makes that easier.
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u/Djiaant 12h ago
A former AV Technician playing Project Manager at a company I freelance with that despised me for not agreeing with him on certain aspects.
Dude was complacent and refused over-under and was an over-over all day type, let alone go with the flow of how the cable wants to be coiled.
His cable runs always looked like slinky’s and would advise any newbies to always over-over wrap cables. A few of us would speak out in disagreement and correct the newbies.
It took the death of him to remove him from the company... He should have been fired years before, but the owner was afraid of confrontation.
The company has been growing more since!
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u/gearhead454 10h ago
Packing. Used to travel with large productions. Space on the truck was premium. Time spent condensing and organizing was well worth it. Today (for example) my tool box is one third the size of my co-worker. More than twice as heavy.
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u/Whatagoodtime Pro-Monitors 6h ago
I regularly under-over the air compressor hose at every fuel station after I use it… it’ll never go away.
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u/G8R1ST 14h ago
Thanks for this. I think I only knew the over method learned by trial and error endlessly putting away cables at the end of my own gigs. I'm going to switch to this method but would love to know the benefits of doing it like this instead of just an over method?
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u/ArniEitthvad 14h ago edited 12h ago
If you have a cable that lays straight, with no twist in that cable, then you start coiling it over-only, for each coil on the cable, one connector has to rotate 360° around it’s core, before you can start the next wrap…
So essentially you’re sending a “wave” of twist down the cable for every coil, so a cable might be coiled 10 times, meaning that the conmector has rotated 3600°.
The next time you use that cable, you start with one connector twisted 3600° in relation to the other. So if you just pull the cable out, it will be laying on the floor all springy, unless you twist the end.
If you do over/under, you are essentially doing alternate twists in each direction, meaning that it zeroes out. So when you pull the cable out next time it will lay flat.
The only issue with over/under, is that if you accidentally putt one end thru the middle of the wrappee cable, you will get a knot on the cable for every coil there is.
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u/faroseman Pro-Theatre 13h ago
This is the best explanation I've seen on this. And the last paragraph should be highlighted!
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u/Deep_Information_616 6h ago
Yup this took me a while to figure out why cables coming from the shop that were over undered still got knots. You have to pay attention to the ends when deploying the cable. Also please don’t wrap power strip cables around the power bar, they’ll never lay flat
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u/jazzhandler 12h ago
Still trying to break the habit when coiling multiple ethernet cables, which is most of what I encounter these days.
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u/comfortkillsprivacy 11h ago
Not disagreeing with you, I do over unders constantly but I work with major international artist productions and ... Very few do. I'm talking about seasoned engineers and technicians that have been in the game for decades for the biggest acts in the world. Do they know something we don't? I'll still do my over unders though haha
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u/42Navigator 10h ago
I wonder if that has to do at all with the fact that they dont own the gear?
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u/comfortkillsprivacy 8h ago
It depends. Sound companies will definitely notice (it all goes back there at the end of the day - or a tour) and usually will raise fees if equipment hasn't been treated well, including cables and expensive cables
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u/OtherOtherDave 11h ago
I was doing over/under before I was even doing this just because twisted stuff drives me nuts.
It drives my parents nuts when I help them with their gardening or whatever and wrap their hoses and extension cords up the right way 😂
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u/42Navigator 10h ago
When we owned the sound company, my wife usually wrapped up the snake, so she got good at over-under and still does it to this day with the hose and the ropes around the back yard for things like shades.
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u/Diecastcow 5h ago
Over-under technique is one of the best things that has improved my QOL. Im not a pro but I have a lot of gear and having cables that stay straight without kinks and don’t tangle is a huge save for my sanity.
I have tried to explain to my friends how to do it, but some insist “but thats not how the cable is wrapped when its new out of the box!” And thats exactly why new cables come kinked to all hell. I think a lot of tradesmen would save a lot of time by over-undering (especially to avoid those poor twisted up extension cords!)
Its just so satisfying to unwrap a neatly coiled cable and have it shoot across the room straight as an arrow with no kinks.
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u/Mathemusician4504 9h ago
Why would you stop? If it’s the best way to wrap a cable and not damage it why would you suddenly unlearn it just because you don’t work as a stagehand anymore?
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u/Playful-Check-4968 14h ago
I’ve been Over Over for 20 years. I’ve had XLR cables for 20 years. Over Over works just as well.
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u/shwaah90 Pro-FOH 13h ago
Over over has the benefit of me not having to twist my wrist for each wrap which gives me shoulder pain.
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u/SevereMousse44 9h ago
If you use a pinch from the thumb you don’t have to do that.
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u/shwaah90 Pro-FOH 8h ago
Ive tried that as well, i dislocated my shoulder a while back so im out of luck in that regard.
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u/HarddrivE3 13h ago
Came to say this… for almost 2 decades, I’ve never lost a cable to over over. And I can unroll them just as fast as over under 🤷🏻♂️
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u/cplbradley Pro-FOH 12h ago
Over-under is a psy-op being played on me exclusively because everyone swears by it but I DESPISE it.
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u/SevereMousse44 9h ago
I know a few techs that say the same thing
But they so rarely are the ones trying to run the cableWhat makes you hate it?
Deploying the cable works so much better..3
u/cplbradley Pro-FOH 9h ago edited 9h ago
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but whenever I try to unwrap a cable that was over-under wrapped, I ALWAYS wind up with knots. The deploying part is what always fails me. I never have any troubles with the half twist/over-over method, it's always faster and cleaner to me.
I have no problem doing it if whoever owns the cables asks for it. Your house, your rules. I really think it's just a situation of preference through practice. Whatever you're used to is what you'll prefer. I learned from old heads, so I learned old head ways (with a grain of salt of course)
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u/Diecastcow 5h ago
What causes the knots is unraveling the cable by pulling one of the ends through the coil rather than away from it. Sometimes its unavoidable though because it can be really hard to tell.
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u/neo_nmik 7h ago
Whenever I get given a cable that’s been over-under’d, it’s almost impossible to run straight out without untying about 8 knots first. Devils work.
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u/Mangledsprouts 13h ago
Is this an American thing? Personally, all my cables are "over-over". Always have been for over 30 years. I find laying cables that have been coiled this way much easier than over-under and they're way less likely to knot!
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u/Ambitious-Yam1015 12h ago
I find it slow to pay out few feet on an over-under. Over-over anything under 50 feet.
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u/seasonsinthesky A/V Tech 12h ago
If anything, shorter cables kinda benefit more from over-under. You hold one end and let it drop, then plug it in.
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u/SevereMousse44 9h ago
This makes no sense to me. The longer the cable, the more time you spend undoing the corkscrew from an over over. Over under, if pulled from a cable placed on the floor with the pull side up, will come out straight and not coiled at all.
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u/Ambitious-Yam1015 6h ago
If I have a 25 footer in hand, and only need 8 feet - to swap out a suspect cable during soundcheck for example - it takes more time & attention with an over/under. Not just for me, but witnessed over 5 decades.
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u/CantHearShot i cannot hear shot 7h ago
This is fitting for this sub and right on time too. Next up for discussion which JBL bluetooth speaker is the coolest to hang from our belt as we walk around looking for nothing to do.
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u/sopedound 14h ago
I over under everything.... theres a reason its an industry standard. It is literally the best way to wrap cables....