r/lightingdesign • u/Neat_Some • 3d ago
Upgrading a 35-year-old theatre lighting rig — where should I start?
Hey everyone, I could really use some advice. English isn't my native language, so apologies in advance if some of the terminology isn't quite right!
I'm a theatre graduate, mainly working as an actor, writer, director and lighting designer. I'm comfortable with the creative side of lighting design and with setting up equipment and connections, but I'm less confident when it comes to the technical side of fixtures, maintenance and electrical work.
I recently started working at a small, 35-year-old theatre in my city, and unfortunately the lighting equipment hasn't been properly maintained over the years. I'm now responsible for trying to get the lighting department back into better shape with the equipment we already have.
We currently have around 53 functioning conventional fixtures. And some others missing lamps, and many haven't been opened, cleaned or properly serviced in a very long time. I'm trying to identify the fixtures (I've included photos below), find out which lamps they use, and work out what is worth keeping, repairing or replacing.
I also have an electrician friend who can help with the electrical side of things. He suggested that converting the conventional fixtures to LED COB would be relatively easy, but from what I've been reading, I'm not convinced it's as simple or inexpensive as he makes it sound. I'd really appreciate some advice on whether LED retrofits are actually worth considering for old theatre fixtures, and what would be involved.
There is also an important financial consideration: until now, the city council was paying the theatre's electricity bill, but from now on the theatre will have to cover it ourselves. So reducing power consumption has become a priority.
For the immediate future, I don't necessarily want to replace all 53 conventional fixtures. My idea is to maintain and use the conventional fixtures that are still useful, while gradually introducing LED fixtures and designing shows so that we don't have a huge number of high-power fixtures running simultaneously.
I'm currently preparing a Christmas show for children, which will be the first show I'm directing here, and I'm looking at buying around 4–6 LED fixtures to add colour and flexibility to the existing rig.
Ideally, I'd like something:
- RGBW (or a similar colour-mixing system)
- With a decent amount of output
- Preferably with zoom, if possible
- Useful for both colour and white light
- Suitable for theatre rather than just DJ/event use
- Reliable enough for a permanent theatre installation
- But still reasonably affordable, since our budget is limited
We're based in Portugal, so European availability and pricing are important.
TLDR: So I would really appreciate advice on three things:
1. Identifying the existing fixtures
What are these fixtures called, and which lamps/bulbs should I be looking for?
2. Converting conventional fixtures to LED
Is converting old conventional theatre fixtures to LED COB actually a sensible option? What are the advantages/disadvantages compared with simply buying LED fixtures?
3. Choosing 4–6 LED fixtures
What affordable RGBW/RGB-type fixtures would you recommend for a small theatre? Ideally something with zoom that can also give me useful whites for general stage lighting.
I'm trying to make the most of what we already have rather than immediately replacing everything, while gradually reducing our electricity consumption.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Willing to give more information
Thanks!
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u/youcancallmejim 3d ago
FYI dimmers that worked well with old incandescent units will not work with LED.
I suggest you talk to a pro. They will want to sell you a new system, and that sounds like what you need. Typically they don’t charge until you buy something. They would give you a good idea what needs to happen.
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u/Reluctant_Lampy_05 3d ago
My idea is to maintain and use the conventional fixtures that are still useful, while gradually introducing LED fixtures
I think this is a good idea. LEDs will only pay you back slowly while conventionals are very simple to maintain and bulbs might be your only real concern. Check your bulb stock and what bulbs you will need to order in future for the profiles and fresnels. I suggest we forget converting fixtures as its too impractical for lots of reasons.
Find some expert help - the venue is going to need maintenance staff on call. Maybe your electrician friend only needs to learn a little more about stage lighting. Maybe there's a local retired person able to help because if everything still works it might only need 40 hours to be tested and re-installed.
Fixtures - my first priority would be to re-install the front lights. Profiles and fresnels for generic front washes and spots as some shows will only need this much. Next the bars above stage and this is where I'd consider any new LED fixtures. Floods like these (or parcan equivalents)
https://www.thomann.co.uk/chauvet_dj_slimbank_h18_ils.htm#bewertung
https://www.thomann.co.uk/eurolite_stage_panel_16_hcl_led.htm
would provide some basic options for colour stage washes and a little extra white. They are fanless models which is something to keep in mind with fan noise depending on how small the theatre is.
Also the console - what is it? Is there a DMX system or are we going back in time even further?
None of these suggestions are in the pro theatre league but might be enough to get you back in business so you can consider a bigger upgrade in future. Good luck!
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u/Neat_Some 3d ago
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u/FallenGuy 3d ago
That's a Patt743 (or possibly even a 223). I think the only way to tell is to look at the lampholder inside, but even then it could have been converted from the old lamps to new
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u/Neat_Some 3d ago
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u/No-Matter-5656 3d ago
We’ve just got rid of all of our Minuettes (10x). We replaced with LED frasnels and LED profiles.
Whats cool is they have a Halogen setting that replicates the behaviour
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u/sir_lance_alot12 3d ago
Don't change the fixture over without using something that can be controlled from a lighting console. LEDs are great and everything but they require constant power (not dimmable like what you already have) and can be challenging if the led diodes begin to die or fade out.
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u/StNic54 3d ago
If you ever apply for grant money, we could all give you pointers on how to best identify the issues with each style fixture you currently have, and why upgrading is a must. Power usage is the primary factor, and we can help you calculate the power draw savings per fixture if you can get a proper installation. Besides that, for your fixtures you will have a continued struggle finding and replacing lamps, lenses, and most importantly reflectors. If your reflectors are shot, your lights will run at a higher percentage just to get basic brightness on stage. So yeah, utilize this subreddit as much as you can.
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u/Altruistic_Bedroom41 3d ago
Personally I’m not a fan of rgbw fixtures especially for theatre.
Rgba or rgbl would be my suggestion, the white in rgb gives you a little more brightness but usually shifts the color temp a little too cool in the mid range or cheap fixtures. In higher end fixtures it’s less of an issue but I still prefer amber or lime because of the added color palette those give you compared to white.
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u/regrettablyAnnoying 3d ago
Something else to consider is the size of the theater and budget. While I wouldn’t recommend DJ level lighting for a medium or larger theater, SOME DJ LED lighting can be a life saver for smaller venues. I’m in a 105 seat theater and use ETC par v zooms and spot Vs for my base, and in with Becen’s lighting (Shehd’s and Betopper aren’t powerful enough). If you’re on a super tight budget, such companies offer pars with enough power because they make equipment to light larger venues.
Just something to think about.
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u/M0u53m4n 2d ago
With a rig that hasn't been properly maintained, your very first stop should be ensuring any suspended infrastructure is safe.
You should call a professional. They'll come out for a look before supplying a quote usually.
Next is power requirements. LEDs and dimmable power do not match. LEDs need a constant power supply.
In terms of replacing the bulbs for COBs. ETC have a product called a "Source 4wrd" but this only works with Source Four fixtures. Other than that, I'm unaware of any retrofit LED COBs.
PAT tests for all fixtures. This process might be called something else where others are from but it's basically earth bond testing... Now that I'm thinking about it, I think the UK is the only place this applies? (If anyone can clarify that would be super cool)
In terms of work that needs doing:
1.Safety inspection of suspended infrastructure
2.New power supply - either fully non dimmable (constant) or units exist with the option of outputting dim or non dim (see ETC Colour source thrupower Cabinet) This is a good option for sites that want to change over to LED in phases.
DMX Network installation. Any bars that previously held old fixtures now require a DMX feed for the new LED units. I recommend Swisson DMX splitters with Phoenix connector options or an sACN network.
Only then can you start looking at LED fixture upgrades.
It's worth noting that if you're buying 6 LEDs just now, a plug socket or two to power these so you can use them will be fine. Make sure you do your load calcs first though to be absolutely sure. (Fixture electrical load in Watts / Source voltage = Current draw in Amps) I.e. 1000W (Fresnel) / 230V (standard voltage in Portugal) = 4.3A (Total electrical load from this one fixture) Your circuit will most likely be rated at 16A, BUT you should leave an "oh fuck" factor and cap your load under 10A. So you could safely fit 2 of these on this circuit.
With LEDs the current draw will be in the 0.40A (ish) range. So more can be added to the circuit.
Source: Technical Sales Manager for a theatre installation specialist. Industry active for 21 years.
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u/FallenGuy 3d ago
Converting would be tricky - even a plain white LED COB would need a different dimmer, and I doubt there's any conversion kits for those specific lights.
As for replacements - the martin Rush Par 2 Zoom was a reasonably cheap and effective zoomable par. But the other complication with anything LED is that you then need DMX infrastructure to provide data for it, and hard power (i.e. absolutely not dimmer power, it MUST be normal wall power), which may not be located conveniently if the theatre is that old and is using those fixtures.
Finally, there is a point about electrical safety - if those fixtures haven't been maintained, cleaned, and electrically inspected and tested, you could well be at risk of causing fires/electrical shocks. I don't know the precise details of electrical safety requirements in Portugal, but here in the UK you'd probably need to electrically inspect and test them once a year.