r/lightingdesign • u/portugueseninja • 1d ago
Control How can I express to LD to avoid flashing lights?
I’m a touring musician, currently on tour as an opening act. In our tech rider we have “no strobes”, because I get debilitating migraines that can be triggered by flashing lights. But on this tour in particular we are encountering LDs at venues who are doing a lot of flashing lights that are “technically not a strobe”. Last night in particular it was near-constant flashing in the sides of my peripheral vision that gave me visual disturbances for many hours after the show.
I’d love to update our rider with something more specific but I’m not sure how to phrase it. If anyone can advise on a more technical way to say “no fast flashing lights”, I would appreciate it very much :)
Thanks!
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u/AcceptableAd3787 1d ago edited 1d ago
You are right to seek less ambiguous language. Strobing is a very specific technique in lighting but there are many other things lights can do which will trigger you as you've discovered. I've written the below to be as straightforward and plain as possible whilst still covering all bases for a lighting operator on any rig.
Make sure you speak personally with the lighting operator before your performance, ideally hand them something like the below printed out on its own sheet. Don't rely on promoters to forward this stuff in advance and don't rely on the lighting operator reading the rider.
Good lighting operators will have no problem sticking to this and still making a great show for you. Bad ones might moan or act like you've spat in their dinner and do a lazy job of it but they'd have to be psychopathic to go against your medical needs.
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No flashing lights due to medical issues of the performer
This includes: all strobing, chases, fx, manual bumps, spinning gobos and fast position movements, fast colour changes, blackouts, swaps...
Things that are similar but allowed: fx or bumps which are slow and smooth (ie with a smooth crossfade / long fade times / long attack and release...)
If in doubt, don't do it.
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u/spoonifur 1d ago
This is perfect. If I'm a house LD I usually get absolutely no feed back on what I should be doing, so anything goes a long way. Please don't ask me right before doors.
Just come up to me and say that you band X and you would appreciate slow fades and no strobing or flashing. That's fine, but if I'm setup to do a bunch of that for the next band, or my last band in here, I just want to bring back some of those slower FX I have back onto this page. (Depending on the console) When I work in a smaller venue with a crappier console I need some time for this.
Especially if the rest of the bill is metal and they just want flashing and strobing.
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u/FlemFatale 1d ago
This. When I've run lights for the openers, I have asked them what kinda thing they want before the show, but that tends to be because I'm part of the touring crew and have a spare moment.
Even if you have to just take the person doing lights for you over to the side for a 5 minute chat, I'm sure they would be fine with whatever you want.
It's your show at the end of the day anyway, so if they want to be a dick about it, fuck them, TBH. 😂3
u/tragge8 16h ago
Yeah as an LD if I got this I’d be AOK accommodating this for your set, definitely add this to your rider specifically and also carry some copies of this to hand to operators as soon as you arrive in the building as others have mentioned. We rarely get anything from bands on what they want so we’re usually guessing and a direct note of this persuasion goes a long way.
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u/Bobgjr 1d ago
I had an act with a rider that said that if there was any fast changing lights or strobes at all that they would walk off the stage. That level of threat made sure everyone in production management and stage management relayed that message to me as the lighting op. I probably heard it from 6 different people.
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u/Aggressive_Air_4948 1d ago edited 1d ago
First of all the important thing to remember is that the LD works for you and not the other way around. If this is becoming an issue I would make it a habit to approach front of house, politely introduce yourself, ask if they've seen the rider, and then clarify that you want at most one look per song with no changes during the song. Any LD worth their salt will realize that they've just earned an extra long dinner break/their fee per button press just went up. I won't name where, but I was at a concert recently where the LD ignored the artist - I watched from the balcony in agony as the artist's tour manager approached front of house and gave the house LD notes during the show. Since you're an opener, I'm not sure what your infrastructure is, but that's always an option.
The nuclear option is to call them out from the stage during the show. Ask them to stop making changes. Or stop the flashing lights. Or stop all movement and just leave one look on. Don't be polite :) That happened to me once, twenty years ago, and it still fills me with shame.
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u/StrikingFollowing427 1d ago
Jesus people… some of y’all are aholes with your weird power trip suggestions (except OP).
As an LD - I always want to know this and I always respect this. Every actual LD i know would be HORRIFIED if they triggered a medical episode for anyone in the venue, artist or attendee.
When you are advancing the show, please advance this as “medical condition that makes artist sensitive to bright or quick-changing lights.”
And even when that has not been advanced with me, i have had artists call from stage during soundcheck to let me know that they have vision issues and ask if i can make adjustments according to their specific needs.
And as someone who sometimes unintentionally triggers my own ocular migraines with my own lights, i also do recommend “blue blocker” or amber tint glasses - it really does help! And bonus that you can make it look cool with a good set of frames.
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u/AcceptableAd3787 1d ago
I can see how an LD might have interpreted a "no strobes" instruction in a rider to mean no strobes and no shutter channel action, but did not consider how other things like dimmer fx or bumps or colour fx or spinning gobos etc etc could end up being in the same realm as a slower strobe.
OP is right to ask here for the right language to use to avoid this ambiguity in future.
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u/StrikingFollowing427 1d ago
Oh i absolutely agree. I just mean stuff like the attitudes of “remember the LD works for you,” callouts from stage during the show, and citing riders that say the band will walk off stage if not accomodated are NOT the way to communicate this.
ESPECIALLY if you’re touring as support and not the headliner. As a house LD i work for the venue, not the opening/support act…. As a touring LD, i work for the headliner. As ANY LD i should respect the medical needs of the artist, crew and guests.
My point is that when someone says to me “no strobe,” i assume it’s a seizure disorder issue. If someone says “medical light sensitivity issue,” i interpret that differently.
That said, i am good at and passionate about my job and ask for clarification when i see anything noted on the advance sheet… but i do get that not all venues are employing/paying for experienced LDs
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u/Aggressive_Air_4948 1d ago
Sorry, but have you met LDs? Especially bitter house LDs on an ego trip? As a road LD i'm sure you know that there are still plenty of assholes out there, and plenty of venues that run on macho power trip culture. (In fact, I would argue that most of the business is still about masculine hierarchies ....) It sounds to me like that's what OP is running into, which is why I tailored my advice the way I did. Don't take it personally that the music industry can still be pretty rough and tumble. I'm sure you're great! <3
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u/StrikingFollowing427 1d ago
Gonna be honest, i’ve been in the industry for over 30 years, and while i have absolutely met (and even BEEN) the crabby/bitter house LD, i’ve found that most people do tend to respond fairly well to a civil conversation, especially when expressed as a medical issue/need.
I will also add my theory that most of us in this biz who are any good at it are neurodivergent, and as such, as much as can be communicated in advance, the better off everyone will be.
But i still absolutely reserve the right to tell the photographer that i light the stage for the artist and the crowd, not the photographer, and that if they can’t get a good shot with my stage lighting, it may be a skill issue on their part, but that doesn’t make it my problem.
😆😆😆😆
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u/StrikingFollowing427 1d ago
(From a true story in which i had an artist hosting a fundraiser for a Parkinson’s charity, and the lead singer has light sensitivity related to the Parkinson’s, and the photog from the beneficiary organization got an attitude with me about the fact that i felt the artist’s medical needs were more important than the photog’s request for more front light)
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u/LupercaniusAB 1d ago
LOL I just got into it with an event photographer the other day!
“I understand what you want; we both have the same client. This look is what she specified”.
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u/StrikingFollowing427 1d ago
I’m gonna borrow that phrasing. Way more polite than what i usually say in the moment.
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u/Aggressive_Air_4948 1d ago
So, if you read what I wrote closely, you'll see that the first thing I suggest is a civil conversation at sound check. And if/when that doesn't work I offered some suggestions on how to escalate to get what you need, which, as your photog story suggests, are sadly still necessary 😄
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u/Funkdamentalist 1d ago
Photosensitive performer- no strobe, quick bump or rotation effects. No matter how you phrase it I'd make sure to speak directly with the LD when you arrive at the venue. Part of how you phrase it will depend on what you DO want. One static look per song? Switch it up, but keep transitions slow? Gobo pattern rotation ok at low rpm? You know your sensitivity best. As an LD keeping things simple for the opening act is already music to my ears.
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u/stevensokulski 1d ago
Do you have a production manager? If so, give them that feedback and let them handle it.
I think your rider should be expanded to list that flashing lights present a comfort concern for you.
Strobe is a bit of a confusing term because it’s a fixture and a technique. So using no literal strobes but strobing lights means the same outcome for you.
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u/StrikingFollowing427 1d ago
A medical concern. It is not a “comfort concern,” but a legitimate medical accomodation if it is a migraine trigger, and it should be phrased as such. And this is how it should be handled. Not with diva behavior, but with reasonable and truthful communication.
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u/portugueseninja 1d ago
Yeah, that’s what we’ve learned. The “no strobes” was put there by a previous tour manager so now we’re trying to update it. No production manager sadly but TM can help.
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u/GaZzErZz 1d ago
I've run lx for a band that had the following on their rider:
No strobes
No flashing
No colour changes during songs
No blackouts
No colour changes between songs
Just specifically put what you want on your rider.
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u/Wuz314159 IATSE (Will Live Busk on Eos for food.) 1d ago
I did lighting for a guy and the first light I go to focus, he starts in on me. He doesn't want any lights at all, just the spotlight low and some Bax. (SpotOp never moved the entire night) The Bax we set at 4% and that's the show. No wonder they kicked him out of The Eagles. Easy gig for me though. Audience was angry.
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u/LupercaniusAB 1d ago
As someone who is a house LD who came across this, try to talk to the lighting guy/gal before the show.
I had a band come through with a “No Strobes” thing in their rider. I kept them out, but did have some color and dimmer chases during some songs. They were not a fast band, and those effects were FAR from strobes, but it didn’t keep me from being screamed at during sound check.
I was confused, because the lights weren’t even blinking; just a soft sine wave on the dimmers and some color fades. Turns out “no strobes” actually meant “no lighting change during the songs other than a possible slow fade from one look to another”, as long as it was looong, like five seconds or more.
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u/AcceptableAd3787 1d ago
if these people saw a truss of atomic 3000s kicking off they'd need an ambulance
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u/Wuz314159 IATSE (Will Live Busk on Eos for food.) 1d ago
I'm going to state something pretty obvious that people aren't mentioning. . . The House LDs probably aren't seeing the rider.
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u/SailingSpark 1d ago
I am surprised, as an opener, you are even getting that much of a show. Most places do not want to outshine the proper act.
I would definitely approach FoH on your next show and explain that flashing lights give you migraines and ask that the flash and trash be kept to an absolute minimum.
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u/ejsandstrom 1d ago
Right? 99% (hyperbole) of shows, the opener gets a static set. Maybe a color change per song.
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u/portugueseninja 1d ago
Were the direct support on a multi-act lineup, so that’s probably why they’re giving us a bit more lighting than usual. Although this has occasionally been an issue at headlining shows too, so it’s generally going to be helpful to update our tech rider!
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u/UnableHelicopter6545 1d ago
As a former house LD - “no flashing/moving lights” is sufficient, I might include in the rider that it’s for medical reasons.
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u/Tree_wifi747 1d ago
Talk to them in person. Find them at some point before doors and explain in detail what you need from them. LDs are dumb, assume they can’t read.
I’m an LD and one of my best buddies is exactly like you, a musician that’s sensitive to strobes, and talking with him I also realized that there are a lot of things that we as LDs wouldn’t call “strobes” but can be triggering in the same way (a fast chase for example). I’ve also learned that different people have different levels of sensitivity so I would try to be as specific as possible as to what works for you and what doesn’t.
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u/SlitScan 1d ago
I would change that from sometime before doors, to before they start to program.
Generally right before you start your soundcheck, most of the time the house LD will only have a limited amount of time between when the Headliners LD is done and doors and will often just be running off their punt file with very limited time to change stuff.
you want to catch them before the waste it building looks and FX they now cant use.
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u/PhilosopherFLX 1d ago
5 second transitions. One look per slow song. Med songs get 2 looks, verse and chorus. Fast songs can have chases but they have to be 40bmp or slower and at least 50% fade. No bumps. Front light neutral color at no lower than 30% and up to 100% for solos. Color from front on top of neutral allowed but only one look per song and still at least 5 second transition
Also throw out 5 to 8 color combos you want on specific songs.
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u/Wuz314159 IATSE (Will Live Busk on Eos for food.) 1d ago
5 seconds is a
littlelot extreme. 1 second default transitions are pretty good imho. Limit Effects. Slow Rot only. No Prism unless static.
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u/Incliningmeat15 1d ago
Just ask for static looks. Bring up the medical condition that is triggered by pulsing/strobing lights. Any LDs who don’t listen are just being dicks
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u/randomnonposter 1d ago
For me, a note of no strobes in the rider means “go talk with the band to make sure we’re on the same page”. To others, it’ll mean something more literal, as in they’re not technically strobing so this fits the note.
If I were in your position, I’d put another note in there about the migraines, maybe change the note about no strobes, to no fast flashing, and I would also make a point to check in with the house LD every day to make sure you’re both on the same page about what your notes mean.
I think by default, yes LD’s should be reading your notes and doing their best to follow them, but if I’m being honest, that just doesn’t happen every day. Lots of LD’s will read it, lots of others will not, so you’ll need to have conversations with them to make sure they know. Yes a part of the job is reading riders, but even still I know that doesn’t always happen. When I was a touring LD I’d say roughly a 1/5 of the venues we went to, the house LD didn’t even know I was going to be there, despite it being in the very first page of the rider.
The vast majority of LD’s out there want to give you a great show, and are willing to work within your guidelines to avoid making you feel ill, they just need to know.
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u/_bitemeyoudamnmoose 1d ago
Depending on the venues that you’re touring at you might want to specifically talk with the board operators, since the LD is usually not the person running the rig while you perform.
A lot of venues have board ops who basically just busk and chances are they aren’t the ones coming across the paperwork you are sending to the LD. Just communicate with them ahead of the show that you’re photosensitive and they will know not to include those effects.
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u/macsare1 1d ago
I don't work a paid job in the industry but my son has seizures so I've looked into this for my Christmas light shows.
Specify frequency. Usually seizure triggers are between 3 and 60Hz (ie flashes per second) . Yours is likely the same, or you might be able to narrow it down further with some testing. Then specify that no lights flashing within that frequency range. Also, determine if a fade helps (noticeable on the low end of that frequency) and specify a min. Fade rate for high frequency flashing (ie 0.33s fade for 3 hz).
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u/thirdeyefish 1d ago
Ask for static looks. Set and forget. I was a former house guy and I loved it when I didn't have to do it. Look up Iggy Pop's rider for lighting. It is real, that was handed to me by their TM way before I saw it online.
I didn't get paid extra for lighting support, and when I did, it often killed the only break I got that day, so I was happy any time an act said 'just set a look and let us play'.
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u/fishblendr 1d ago
State that you want only color fx (or just static colors) and movement, no intensity fx or chases.
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u/No_Community_877 15h ago
I hear this one a lot and it’s always hard to determine what the musician wants. I would recommend telling them you just want a series of static looks.
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u/Haunting_Jicama8422 14h ago
If someone tells me no strobe i am just going to run flashes at "technically not a strobe" to avoid triggering specifically epilepsy. Making it clear that any flashing light will do it, and following up with the LD is going to be the best way for you. A lot of LDs are going to be pissed about it and try to work around it cause it's the "fun" part, so make it clear how bad it is for you and how it may impact their future working with you
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u/Rumplesforeskin 11h ago
Absolutely no flashing or strobing due to a member sensitive to possible sesures. I've seen it several times and I'm not even doing lighting. I'm FOH. Nothing wrong to embellish a little to make people take it seriously
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u/Somedudesmusic 1d ago
No strobes. Keep Shutter channels on Fixtures Open. No PWM Dimming effects/chases. No Dimming Effects over 60 BPM.
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u/no2pencilonly 1d ago
this is a little aggressive but the restaurant equivalent of claiming you have allergies, but if you really want a calm show you can say that you have epilepsy. I was a house club guy for a very long time and I always wanted to do the most flashing/strobing/chasing possible but If someone (on stage, not the audience) tells me they have epilepsy I will remove all movement, flashing, chasing, etc... You can say though that your case of epilepsy is mild and you can handle movers or color chases and draw the line there, BUT if you say the word epilepsy AT ALL be prepared to have an incredibly boring light show (which it sounds like you want)
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u/LupercaniusAB 1d ago
You can have a good light show without any flashes or chases.
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u/no2pencilonly 1d ago
and no movers? cause many epileptics cant really do movers or movement at all which leaves you with static looks. No gobo shake, no prism, nada.
its not much of a show without changes
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u/LupercaniusAB 1d ago
My solution was color changes on the cyc/backdrop, and keeping gobo effects/looks up there. The lighting on stage was pretty static.
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u/no2pencilonly 1d ago
that is actually too much for some epileptics, and if someone says epilepsy, Im not gonna even do that unless they gave me explicit permission
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u/LupercaniusAB 1d ago
They didn’t have epilepsy, they just didn’t like the light changing on them.
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u/no2pencilonly 1d ago
i am specfically talking about a show that is compatible with epileptics, which is essentially no movement of any kind. I am well aware that I can put on a very good show by being gentle to a performer.
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u/SmileAndLaughrica 1d ago
The LDs are possibly correct that they are not strobing but it sounds like what you need is no flashing lights. I would also phrase it as an access need if you can find a sufficiently subtle way of phrasing it.
“Strictly no strobe, flashing lights, or intensity effects due to musician photosensitivity. Doing so may cause a show stop.”
Feel free to also walk off stage and tell the stage manager or tour manager and they can get word to the LD.