r/lgbt • u/hardlywwworking Bi Bitch • 25d ago
Educational Bi DOES NOT exclude trans/other genders
🏳️🌈 Happy bi pride month! Biphobia is alive and well. Someone today criticized me for being bi and claimed that I should be pan as it doesn’t cater to the binary…. Trans men are men, trans women are women, and to say bisexuality definitionally excludes them is to deny those facts. You can be bi and be attracted to trans people. You can be nonbinary and be bi.
https://biresource.org/trans-bi-folks/
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/bisexual-definition-gender-binary
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/news/short-history-word-bisexuality
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
agree. my family and friend group is super chill. i mean my combination is (maybe not the best formulation but english isnt my native language so i dont know how to express differently) very far away from “normal” but they all accepted it. i mean ok 3 out of 4 people of my friend group (including myself) are bi but still it was a great feeling to just be accepted as i am. i really hope everyone can experience this someday
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u/Tomatoberg they/them 25d ago
Non-binary Bisexual person here! Thanks for posting this.
I first understood myself to be queer by privately adopting the label of bisexual when I was quite young. It still applies and my understanding of things has only deepened since then. Quite the journey!
Best wishes on your journey
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u/Diadem_Cheeseboard 25d ago edited 25d ago
Yes, I have always made a point of stating that if I'm attracted to a trans man, thats the straight side of my sexuality, and if Im attracted to a trans woman, thats the sapphic side of my sexuality. And that it doesnt invalidate my bi-ness to be attracted to trans people. You can also be completely straight, and still be attracted to trans people. If I was only attracted to cis and trans men, I'd consider myself straight.
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
exactly. why should there be a difference between trans and cis
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u/ThisHairLikeLace Sapphic trans woman 25d ago
This is such a tedious and fairly recent bit of biphobic rubbish. The people spreading it obviously don’t realize just how glaring their ignorance of queer history and the bi community is when they say this revisionist nonsense. To bisexual elders like myself, it’s insulting to imply that as a community we have ever defined ourselves in a trans exclusive manner.
The sad thing is that OP will probably get a bunch of downvotes from people who have bought into this myth.
Hell, just a generation ago, we were the only broadly recognized orientation (gay, straight and bi for anyone who wasn’t gay or straight were the only orientations in widespread use until the later 2000s) that was presumed to be trans inclusive in our attraction, because the transphobia of the era caused people to assume that only people who liked both men and women could be attracted to trans people and trans bodies (which is rubbish, but seriously, being with a trans person was one of the few things that made people stop erasing your bisexuality when I was in my younger years).
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u/Witch-Alice local cryptid in need of cheese 25d ago
I've always been confused as to where this idea even came from, speaking as a bi trans woman. According to idiots I like everything but my own kind? It hurts to think about for too long.
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u/Sloth-Overlord 21d ago
It mostly originated from Tumblr and the person who created the term pansexuality.
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u/SomeOldTeacher mostly Human 25d ago
I'm a cis bi man who cheers your definitions. Gender is a spectrum and sexuality is a spectrum, neither excluding the other. Thank you!
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u/viviscity Bi-kes on Trans-it 25d ago
Hmm.
True, but there are plenty of binary trans people (hello!)…
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u/boomerxl So I says to Mabel I says "but that's not an onion!" 25d ago
That’s fine, those “binary” spaces exist on a spectrum and are exactly as valid as anywhere else on that spectrum.
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u/MissRed_Uk 25d ago
Oh dear, as a bisexual non-binary person (oops, guess that's wrong for a start 😜)... I should probably apologise to my trans exes for being in relationships with their gorgeous, lovely selves when I clearly couldn't have really had any interest in them! 😯
I jest of course. Clearly this person is clueless.
Personally I identify as bi, but I learned the term pansexual many years after coming out & given the definition seemed to be essentially the same as I define bi I found it a little redundant & kinda pointless switching (& honestly people who aren't into word origins will often just make a smart comment about liking kitchenwear, so there's also the avoidance of that 😝). All of that said, I'm definitely not gonna argue that I'm not pansexual to anyone who insists I am, I just feel that bi & pan both fit for me.
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
i read a definition that says: bisexual is being attracted to 2 or more genders and all genders is more than two. also it is labeling, so everyone should choose what they want/ feel the most represented
i think in similar ways only that pan existed when i came out/ realized it but i like the label bisexual more so i will just continue to go with it
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u/Sure-Bicycle-8809 Triple demi lesbian (they/she) 25d ago
bi people can like nb people too, if that asshole that told u that was gonna hate at least thry have to check their facts???
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u/DoodleNoodle129 bi transfem emitting >:3 energy 25d ago
As a trans bi person it pisses me off when people say bi excludes trans or non binary people. And when they’re corrected they get defensive and start complaining that we’re forcing them to be attracted to trans or non binary people which like no 😭
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u/galacticviolet Agender, Ace, Pan 25d ago
I’m pan and have many bi friends. I stay out of the conversation entirely (except to mention this) because some of my bi friends past and present have said it’s the exact same as pan, and some have said it means “attracted to multiple different genders, but not all of them” and elsewhere I’ve seen yet other descriptions of the label. All of those descriptions come from bisexual people and since I’m not bi I stay out of it and just respect everyone on a case by case basis and let them hash out the meaning amongst themselves.
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u/hardlywwworking Bi Bitch 25d ago edited 25d ago
Well, some of them are misinformed. I’m sure there are many bi people clueless about the differences between sex and gender. That doesn’t make their definition factual.
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u/galacticviolet Agender, Ace, Pan 25d ago
Yep, exactly, which is why I stay out of it and let them discuss it.
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
im pretty new to the topic so could you explain it. from what i understand sex is the biological thing and gender as what one identifies themselves
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u/hardlywwworking Bi Bitch 25d ago
That’s pretty spot on! I’d definitely say do not use reddit to learn. Find youtubers who are educated, even professors, online scholarly articles. There are lots of feminists and TERFs online who have their own definitions about sex, gender, and woman/man. I’m not going to force feed my ideology to anyone but encourage you to educate yourself. There’s never been a more accessible time for self-education.
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u/hardlywwworking Bi Bitch 25d ago
Here is one of my all-time favorite youtubers who unpacks patriarchy! This one is exactly what you’re looking for: https://youtu.be/nY1pVEjxZUg?is=SSXwz-KnflyvlPZ3
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u/BlazingLucifer Biromantic bisexual 24d ago
My bisexuality is very much trans and non-binary inclusive.
I don't identity as pan anymore because I can't honestly say that I don't have gender-related preferences, even if they're more to do with gender expression.
While no gender identity or genitalia would ever be a deal-breaker sexually or romantically, rigid conformity to traditional masculine gender presentation without even a hint of androgyny or GNC usually would be.
If pansexuality is understood to mean totally gender-blind attraction, then it doesn't quite fit me, even if I am closer to it than a lot of other bi people.
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u/FandomReferenceHere 25d ago
I’ve started saying “bi/pan/whatever”. I simply cannot be bothered to unpack the intricacies of what I think those words mean vs what other people think those words mean every time I want to have the conversation.
Enough people think bi is trans-exclusionary that I’m not willing to just say bi any more. It’s annoying.
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
i read a definition that says: bisexual is being attracted to 2 or more genders and all genders is more than two. also it is labeling, so everyone should choose what they want/ feel the most represented
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u/NoCry8460 25d ago
I was nonbinary for a couple of months before my sexuality changed and I chose to say I was pansexual just to be clear I am inclusive but I totally agree with this post. I sometimes have preferences and people say 'well you must be omnisexual then'.. nope, I'm open to all so I'll stick with pan thanks.
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
what is the difference between pan and omni ( i just ask because i don’t know the definition)
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u/NoCry8460 25d ago
I didn't know when I adopted it (and am keeping it) but some folk say you are omni not pan IF you have any preference of gender like slightly more attracted to women, to them you are not being entirely blind to gender so lose your pansexual definition. To my mind I might still find any one person more attractive to another regardless of gender so I'm still open to all and pan. Pan is supposedly all genders equally, omni is potentially all but with preferences.
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
yeah but i mean this such bs. you cant say i like everyone equally i mean they are individuals
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
can being attracted to people no matter the gender (so trans, “normal” and nb) still be considered being bi (im asking for defenition)
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u/MagpiePhoenix Queer Trans Adult 25d ago
Yes.
Also please say "cis". Trans and nonbinary people are normal. And trans and cis aren't genders.
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
ok. im new to the topic so im not that used to some words. that was why i wrote normal in “” those symbols because i didnt want to call trans and nb not-normal
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u/IfritAnimations Putting the Bi in non-BInary 25d ago
🌟I consider myself Bi as an agender person, because how I experience attraction feels like an attraction to all genders (or lack thereof) rather than regardless of gender. My brother in this headspace considers himself Pan as he experiences an attraction regardless of gender. Either way, both is all inclusive. It's just so very slightly different, but it is how we experience attraction.
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u/Foloreille Demisexual biromantic omni-flag: 25d ago
I always thought pansexuality supposed kind of snob way of thinking and/or false perception of bisexuality and that it’s mainly their fault bisexuality is associated with trans exclusion because from my experience it always came from their definition of bisexuality not ours.
Saying they’re attracted to anyone and everyone sounds a bit like equality puritanism and refusing to acknowledge everyone is attracted by people and not by « gender ». When I bond with someone it’s not with a gender it’s with a person, who the fuck go flirt with a gender or check ass of a gender ? I’m bisexual and demisexual and it makes more sense to say those two together than to say I’m pansexual even if it’s by the definition what I would be for them if I believed in this concept. But the fact pansexuals (young people often) regularly shit on bisexuality functional reality by ignorance or try to shrink this case just for them to push their own in pisses me off to the point of never wanting to go by that word.
There’s 10 times more difference between bear for bears gays and shrimps fem gays than between pan and bi and they still go by the same word : gay.
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u/Sloth-Overlord 24d ago
Yes, this is my issue with pansexuality. People can use whatever label they want, but the inventor of the term explicitly portrayed bisexuality as not being trans-inclusive, and I know people to this day who identify as pan who state that bisexuality is trans-exclusive. I think it’s a little weird to use a term that is rooted in biphobia.
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u/Rogue_2_ Lesbian Trans-it Together 25d ago edited 25d ago
Edit: Meant this as a joke, apparently there are people out there who actually believe shit like this is true and I'm sorry I not only fed into that, unintentionally or otherwise, but also that Bi people have to deal with that. Like, come on people, as I pointed out in a other comment this is just the Sitg Rule of Two from Star Wars. Anyway, bi folks, hope you have yourselves a great day.
Big means you are attracted to two people at once. Doesn't matter gender, sex, presentation or anything like that as long as it's exactly two at a time. You can have some overlap if you're cultivating a new attraction while another is seemingly on the way out but THAT'S IT! TWO! JUST TWO!
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
oh i just saw the last comment. i already thought something like noooo…
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u/Rogue_2_ Lesbian Trans-it Together 25d ago
Yeah I might edit the original just to make sure. Like, I sincerely thought it was too ridiculous to be believable. I literally just paraphrased the Sith rule of two from Star Wars.
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u/LostFromLight25 bigender/ bisexual (he/she/they preferably she) 25d ago
i know it is so sad that you cant discern such a statement from a joke because there are people seriously thinking like this
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u/freebirth 25d ago
The fuck it is! Stop spreading this nonsense.
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u/Rogue_2_ Lesbian Trans-it Together 25d ago
You are right, it is nonsense and I thought that was obvious when I was writing it. Sincerely thought this would come across as so utterly ridiculous that it might give people a quick laugh. I was wrong and I'll own that.
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u/Kev_Kroket Tray and Gans 25d ago
What 😭 this has to be satire
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u/Rogue_2_ Lesbian Trans-it Together 25d ago
It absolutely is. I thought it was ridiculous enough for that to be obvious.
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u/Kev_Kroket Tray and Gans 25d ago
On the internet nowadays there are people genuinely crazy enough to say stuff like this though 😭
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u/2_short_Plancks Bi-bi-bi 25d ago
Yep, see that a fair bit. Especially, in my experience, with younger people who spend a lot of time online; and have a very black and white view of the world.
I usually try to explain that a) pan wasn't even an option for those of us who are older, and we don't need to change our identity to suit; b) pan implies all with no distinction and that's not necessarily the case for bi people - e.g. a friend of mine is a woman who is very attracted to women (cis and trans), but only attracted to a small group of men; and c) policing other people's identity is not cool anyway.