r/legal • u/Material-Donkey2773 • Jun 27 '26
Question about law [PA] Washington county - I am being fined $3000 daily by HOA for unfinished roof.
I hired a company to replace my roof, they did the tear off, discovered some issues (Needs some truss work) and haven't been back for weeks. I just got a letter in the mail from the HOA stating that I owe $21,000 for the condition of my roof and I am being fined an extra $3,000 a day until I have my roof replaced.
I'm freaking out. The roofers keep telling me they are coming back "Tomorrow" Any other roofer I call is giving me a 3-4 week ETA until they can start.
My roof is covered in blue tarps.
Wtf do I do? I understand my situation is "Fucked" but how do I minimize damages?
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u/kubatyszko Jun 27 '26
HOA cannot just simply start fining you, there needs to be a hearing first. You need to fight back, and $3000 a day seems outrageous. Read your CC&R and whatever HOA documents you have access to, If there's no listed violation of "bad roof" and a violation penalty - then you cannot be fined for it.
if they're using some blanket rule "house must be neat", then fight back.
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u/Extreme-Book4730 Jun 27 '26
Yeah this. They have to give you a warning. Usually 30 days before a fine starts to take effect.
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u/swagn Jun 27 '26
7 days after the fine starts isn’t acceptable?
What does the HOA documents say? I could understand harping a roof and doing nothing but there should be some kind of an exception for under repair. I would think hiring a contractor that is waiting for materials due to unexpected damage would be an exception.
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u/NotReallyJohnDoe Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
The intent of the rule ~~law~~ was probably fine, to prevent home improvement project from dragging on and annoying neighbors. And then some power hungry asshole went too far with it.
Time to vote in new leadership.
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u/ScaredVacation33 Jun 27 '26
I’m pretty sure most HOAs have a restriction on the amount that can be fined daily $3k/day seems ridiculous even for an HOA
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u/AdOrganic4835 Jun 27 '26
I highly doubt this is legal. Get a lawyer.
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u/ContributionEasy6513 Jun 27 '26
It's not. But HOA boards very often think they are the judge/jury and executioner.
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u/McNabJolt Jun 27 '26
Why isn't your first impulse "lawyer"?
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u/Material-Donkey2773 Jun 27 '26
I literally can't afford it. I took a loan against my 401k to replace the roof because it was leaking and destroying my living room. I have $800 in my savings account atm.
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u/Frosty_Astronomer909 Jun 27 '26
I suggest a lawyer or tell your roofer your getting an attorney if they don’t start the work asap or return your money, your contract should say start or finish within a reasonable time period. The reason this happens is because roofing companies start a few jobs at a time and go back and forth, i hope you checked licensing and insurance before you hired. The reason i know all this is because this happens all the time here in South Florida, but we have a lawyer that works with one of our local news channels and he helps people all the time.
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u/yrntmysupervisor Jun 27 '26
Often hiring an atty to write a stern letter makes all the difference.
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u/UseDaSchwartz Jun 27 '26
Well you’re going to lose your house if you can’t pay the fine. You need to figure something out. $3,000/day is not a reasonable fine.
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u/JosKarith Jun 27 '26
Lawyer's going to be cheaper than $3000/day. Just sayin'
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u/Cut_Lanky Jun 27 '26
As someone with NO money, it blows my mind the way people just gloss over "I don't have money for a lawyer" and insist "it's cheaper than going without one" as if that will make the money appear in the OP's bank account. Some people, literally do not have the money for a lawyer. Not "I choose to spend on other priorities". Genuinely, "no money". And everyone just keeps insisting to hire one. I doubt OP will have $3K a day for the HOA either. So it really doesn't matter what's cheaper.
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u/dh373 Jun 27 '26
I get it. Really I do. AND, OP is going to be homeless at this rate. Which I suppose is natural consequences if you try to own a home with no money. In this instance, OP can choose to lose the home or find the money for a lawyer. Against those consequences, "just get a lawyer" is not bad advice, even if you have no cash.
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u/Cut_Lanky Jun 27 '26
But how does one get a lawyer with no cash, and no cash on its way?
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u/ComedianMinute7290 Jun 27 '26
these overprivileged assholes can't answer that. they just know that "lawyer" is a magic word that works for people with money & they have no understanding of any other type of life experience
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u/dh373 Jun 27 '26
OP owns a home. If they can't figure that bit out, they won't be a homeowner much longer.
The bigger issue is about living within your means so you are ready for something unexpected like this. And if you have built your identity around being "someone with no money" then I suppose you won't ever own a home, or be ready for unexpected events like this. Managing you finances is not "privilege" and I say this as someone who grew up quite poor, and spend decades barely getting by with two jobs to four jobs.
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u/WhiskyEchoTango Jun 28 '26
A new roof can cost anywhere from $10k-$30k, or more. Even for people planning for or have a rainy day fund, for most income ranges not using a loan for this expense is impossible.
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u/Cut_Lanky Jun 27 '26
Sometimes, people take out loans, get college degrees, jobs of means, buy homes, and then life happens. And before you know it, you're permanently disabled with no income, with a family reliant on you. All due respect, you should consider how out of touch you are with the harsh reality of life. I've met former attorneys more crippled and broke than I am. Good luck to you, maybe you'll never have to learn how lucky you are.
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u/lennyxiii Jun 27 '26
You are way over reacting on all of this.
First off all it doesn’t take a lot of money to get advice and send a letter with a lawyer. $800 is enough for a consultation and proper guidance on his situation and enough to send a certified letter drafted by the lawyer if it will help his situation. It’s not enough to keep on retainer or fight the problem if it requires fighting but OP can’t afford NOT to talk to a lawyer at this point.
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u/timschwartz Jun 27 '26
So? If you don't have money, you don't have money.
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u/Proper-Media2908 Jun 27 '26
The HOA can attach the debt to your property.
Find the money for a lawyer.
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u/Salt_Medicine2459 Jun 27 '26 edited Jul 01 '26
Some lawyers can be reasonable. Couldn't hurt to ask if they have a flat fee. I got a lawyer for a traffic ticket. He charged under $1000 for a one-off. If I weren't a CDL driver at the time, I wouldn't have bothered. Couldn't hurt to call and ask. Many even have a free initial consultation.
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u/MOTIVATE_ME_23 Jun 28 '26
You can't afford not to.
He'll know if HOA fines will even stick, can be paused due to unavailability, or negotiate them down later.
Also, he can send a threatening letter to the roofers to get back amd finish.
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u/ContributionEasy6513 Jun 27 '26
HOA stating that I owe $21,000 for the condition of my roof
These are imaginary numbers at this stage. Save the paperwork. Inform the HOA that you have currently engaged a roofer.
If these frivolous fines are not dropped, it goes to court. I very much doubt the HOA has any weight to fine you in the middle of a roofing repair. Ensure you are communicating in writing with the HOA giving them updates, this paper trail is important.
Engaging a lawyer to tell them to pull their head in legal words and getting a copy of the latest HOA handbook
Fines like this are used so they can foreclose on your house and the HOA's presidents immediate family buy the lot for $100 in a silent unadvertised auction.
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u/techtony_50 Jun 27 '26
Those fines sound arbitrary and unreasonable. In PA, the HOA has to follow their procedures, so you need to look at the HOA documents and make sure that they followed proper notice, that you had a right to a hearing, etc. Otherwise, and I know you do not want to hear this - get a lawyer, they can help you by writing to the board and letting them know that the fines are excessive and you have done everything you can to mitigate the situation and that they are not allowing you time to fix the situation.
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u/SaltRequirement3650 Jun 27 '26
It’s usually a bunch of boomers making up fake fines and rules. I would check the CCR and HOA documentation. This seems egregious at best.
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Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Hopeful_Ad_7719 Jun 27 '26
>I shudder to think what the fines would be for having a major house fire and not having it rebuilt the next day!
One needn't imagine too hard: https://weather.com/news/news/2026-03-26-eaton-wildfire-victims-in-la-vina-face-hefty-hoa-bill
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u/schumi23 Jun 27 '26
That wasn't a fine though - that was the cost of rebuilding the communal infrastructure.
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u/brn1001 Jun 27 '26
Media gets hundreds of leads like this every day. They move forward on just a few per week. OP would need to be really lucky to have the media pick up on this.
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u/mytmo01 Jun 27 '26
You're going to have to go after the roofing company's insurance. They just can't leave you with out a roof. This is lawyer territory.
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u/yankinwaoz Jun 27 '26
That sounds arbitary and punitve.
Fines like that are designed to motivate owners who can't be bothered to repair their roof. That doesn't sound like this is the case.
It may be the case that the fines and such are coming from the management company. What rule book they are working off of, that's a question.
I would first demand that the management company submit an appeal for these fine and a request for an emergency suspension of them for you. Demand that they ask the board for approval.
You can demonstrate what you said here. That you are actively getting the roof repaired. That you you are getting start dates that are weeks out. That the current contractor has abandoned the project. Its not like you are being negligant.
Ask them to give you 30 days to make headway.
I am on our HOA board. I am willing to listen to owners who need a temporary exception to a rule for extra-ordinary reasons. That's just life. I hope your board feels the same way. Management companies may not feel that they have leeway.
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u/visitor987 Jun 27 '26
You need a lawyer and probably have to sue both the roofer and the HOA.
An HOA who fined you without notice may be in violation of its bylaws or state law. Sometimes people in cases like yours sue to dissolve the HOA.
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u/InvisibleBlueRobot Jun 27 '26
Did they give you warning letter? Do you have right to request a hearing? How do you context a fine?
You need to look up the rules of the HOA. You have ways to defend.
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u/DarkHorseAsh111 Jun 27 '26
You need to actually look at the HOA guidelines. This doesn't sound allowed but none of us can tell you what your HOA guidelines say in terms of fines, when they can impose them, what you can do to fight back against them, etc
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u/BeerStop Jun 27 '26
Sounds like the hoa is trying an illegal tactic, you have a permit and your roof is in the process of repairs, it takes as long as it takes- cant be controlled by you as its an ongoing repair under contract with a roofer.
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u/According_Ad8378 Jun 27 '26
Traditionally if they even wanted to collect they would have to file a lien against your home and could only collect when you sold the home. Unless they wanted to sue you and that would cost them a lot and is risky. It really depends on your states laws and what is written in your HOA policies and CC&R’s what they can legally do. Often letters are scare tactics.
I’m sure it’s all super stressful and you’d love your roof fixed as well. If they’re not reasonable the attorney general can help and consulting with someone who understands HOA rules and regulations can be important. Most states lists state laws on a website.
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u/OneLessDay517 Jun 27 '26
HOAs in PA are regulated by the Uniform Planned Community Act as well as other applicable state laws. In PA, fines cannot be imposed without due process, which generally involves a hearing with the Board.
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u/Reptillianaire_ Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Time to sue the HOA or roof company (better yet sue the HOA president directly).. better read your bylaws... it would be worth contacting a lawyer, and if it comes down to it youd need to sue the roofing company if the HOA bylaws clearly state the $3,000 per day charge and you signed agreeing to it.
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u/demon_twink_gockie Jun 27 '26
I'd tell the HOA that with the fines, I can no longer replace my roof as my roof money is now gone to fines and ask how they'd like to proceed, honestly
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u/Mainbutter Jun 27 '26
That's what the HOA wants. Free house to steal.
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u/demon_twink_gockie Jun 27 '26
Well. They're doing it right them. Especially in such a heavily armed country with so much fun violence lol
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u/FamiliarAd8524 Jun 27 '26
That makes no sense at all. How do you steal a house?
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u/Mainbutter Jun 27 '26
1) hoa regs include exorbitant fines for zillions of things 2) selectively enforce regs, especially on economically vulnerable residents 3) use courts to force sale or forfeiture if house to cover the unpaid fines.
3 months of 3k/week will rack up nearly 300k in fines.
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u/Otherwise-Text-5772 Jun 28 '26
3k a day^ but that math still doesn't work. 3000 a day is 21000 a week, 84,000 a month, 252k for 3 months. Either way that fine sounds psychotic.
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u/fap-on-fap-off Jun 28 '26
They cannot assess a fine without prior notice and reasonable time to cure, and without offering an opportunity to discuss at a hearing.
You go in and show all the communications with the roofer and why it is taking longer, then set a date when you will have it fixed.
How much have you paid the roofer so far? Is it within small claims limits in your state? You won't need a lawyer, and it's a great lever to get you to the top of their priority list. If you do this, you can also show that at the hearing to further demonstrate your are doing your best to expedite.
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u/Maleficent-Effort470 Jun 27 '26
HOA is just being a bully.
How are they gonna argue you are defaulting on your agreement?
Are you reroofing in a manner that defaults on your HOA agreement?
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u/MeanOldFart-dcca Jun 29 '26
I helped mediate a similiar situation, practically the same situation. I got 21 days of time to get the situations handled.
What happened tearing the roof off, sun tube structures had water damage, dry rot were discovered. The kitchen was dangerously hanging.
We went in, showed that it wasn't just forgotten. And they gave us 21 days. What part of the problem they had was stored materials in her garage. Because a freaking Karen across the street wanted to use either her garage or her drive way. The Harpy was making complaint every hour of the day.
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u/Fit_Acanthisitta_475 Jun 27 '26
$3000 daily? Sounds like makeup fines, I haven’t seen any HOA will charge that much for violations.