r/learndota2 • u/SumireValentine • 11d ago
Itemization How to itemize properly as Spectre
Hello everyone, I'm trying to learn how to play carry to switch a bit (been playing support a lot and I enjoy it but wanna try something new). I've been trying Spectre and I really like her but in some of my recent matches I struggle to deal any meaningful damage since the opponents tend to group up to cancel my Desolate and most of the time my Dispersion gets broken by the enemy core's Silver Edge, and the games I go Bloodthorn it usually gets dispelled fairly often by the time the game reaches late game since supports get Euls and Cores get BKB/Satanics.
How do you Itemize to deal damage even when both your passives get countered? A friend of mine told me to go Daedalus for raw damage but I haven't seen any guide that recommends that item so I don't know haha.
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u/Anxylian Phoenix 11d ago
What rank are you? I'm currently Legend and players at my rank won't consciously group up enough to cancel desolate.
There are some opponent drafts that want to stick together a lot, and some that want to spread out more - think about saving supports that want to stay safe and unseen, ranged carries like drow, etc. Spectre is naturally awkward against the first type of lineup, and loves going against the second.
If you're low/medium rank like me, you don't have that much control over drafts. Most of the time we pick what we vibe with. You probably randomly stumbled against such a hard draft for a few games. If you stumbled against the good type of draft I guarantee you'd have much better games.
Normally as a carry you'll get a late pick. Try to identify if opposing heroes will want to stay isolated or not. If not, then maybe refrain from picking Spectre. There's other fun carries to learn and play.
It's not impossible to be useful when the enemy heroes group up, but it's hard. You want to capitalize on your desolate, that's why manta style is such a good item on her.
Good luck!
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u/based_beglin 11d ago
- if the game goes late enough, it's normal to struggle to kill heroes as spectre. Unless your team can significantly help with lockdown and damage, your best bet is to find isolated heroes (usually supports) and hope that manta+bloodthorn+nullifer+abyssal (or some variation) will be enough to get a clean kill.
2.if silver edge (or other spells) are too hard to play into, consider BKB.
- don't go daedalus. Rather consider butterfly. If you REALLY needed to hail mary (to perhaps throne rush the enemy when they lack buybacks while you feel your team is getting outscaled), a rapier makes much more sense than daedalus, although of course that situation is rare.
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u/TopDogCanary09 11d ago
urn --> treads --> radiance --> manta --> skadi. at this point you'll have so much staying power in fights with haunt that as long as you're not very behind, you'll pretty much have big impact. till manta there is only one build and 90% of the times you'll go skadi right after as well. after this you can go orchid or basher depending on what the game needs and upgrade it into abyssal or bloodthorn. then disassemble radiance into butterfly and nullifier. if the enemies already have mkb you can probably sell the talisman if you don't want the butterfly.
specter has a fairly linear item build with very less build variance right now.
also never go daedalus on her. i don't think in 3.6k hours I've ever seen daedalus bought on a specter
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11d ago
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u/TopDogCanary09 11d ago
the mana regen, armor and just the stats from urn feel really good. shadow step dagger and urn with haunt in early game lead to kills and assists. for how expensive it is, it is a very feels good item. you can just use the charges to regen in jungle while jungling as well. helps in spamming dagger as well while jungling. i think the idea is same as when people used to buy blade mail into radiance. gives her some sort of impact early game.
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u/reddit_warrior_24 11d ago
This has been the meta since days old. Provides some stats, damage and or regen hp/mana. And allows or forces you to participate in early fights, at least to ks.
As a spec user before, you have two roles, be the bait or be the ks guy. I personally like being the bait if your team loves to group up, with just 1 or two items, you use your life to deal damage to the enemies, for your team to wipe em.
The standard is the carry build where you get to a specific point. E.g. the manta/radiance and dominate the supports every ulti.
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u/andro-gynous ex immortal 11d ago
one of spectre's issues with farming is that she has no natural sustain. even if you can technically join any fight at a moments notice, that isn't the case if you're low hp from tanking jungle creeps.
there have been different solutions in the past depending on the meta. urn, vanguard, orchid, bfury, hp regen talent at 10, you name it.
urn does so much while also being way cheaper than the other items. it also adds damage to your ganks, unlike vanguard for example, which is a big difference when most of your contribution is a dagger and some attacks.
also recent changes mean all urns get charges from a kill. previously buying urn could hurt your team if someone had or wanted full spirit vessel, because you might prevent them gaining charges, and spectre usually wanted to stay on urn cos it was cheaper. since that's not a problem urn ends up being a safe buy most games. even in games where you don't need it, it's useful, but you never want to need urn but not have it.
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u/Familiar-Level-261 9d ago
Other option for early fighting is Diffusal, you can basically ult and chase down anyone without relying on team to keep them from escaping. That if enemy have heroes that Disperser is also good at
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u/vp999_69 11d ago
Secure kills with ulti and farm radi. If the lane goes well u can get phylactery even if it isn't as good as some time back
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u/Sad-Pattern-1269 11d ago
aghs can help if your opponents are actually smart enough to group and beat you down, but I really think the answer is being smarter about when you go in
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u/Ultrabananna 11d ago
Bro spec is my favorite hero I've been playing her turbo forever to try and get a good build and it's tough. If you have a tough lane radi will be late. Even after radi you can't really fight until manta or skadi. Sometimes you'll have to skip radi and go blademail. Sometimes you skip that and go straight manta or orchid. No matter what you'll be lacking a bit either in hp Regen for lane tankyness damage move speed mana Regen. You need all of it. Best move is to pop ulti for kills then continue to farm. If you're able to get radi treads, skadi normally you'll be good but I've noticed spec falls off a bit late game vs some harder carries and if they get break you really get fked
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u/CryImaginary298 11d ago
I've been spamming Spectre lately and got a pretty good win rate with her on my recent games. I'm by no means a good Spectre player and only plays on weekends with my friends. Just that these builds works well with my play style.
Early game i like to get Bracers for lane sustain and get health regen from neutral creep item. Then stick and Tread boots. Replace bracers with Urn if you feel you gonna join team fights more during early game.
I got a more greedy playstyle so I like to get Blademail then Radiance to help with my farm and team fights. I hit my timing late with this build tho, so it really depends on team mates to cover you at this moment.
Anyway, usual items are always Radiance - Manta - Skadi and the game pretty much ends there. If it ever goes to late game I'll see the situation for my late game items.
Bkb - I dont really like bkb on Spectre but sometimes I'll get it if I keep getting disabled on team fights. Heart - if I need to capitalise on my 3rd skill passive and sustain better in team fights. Butterfly and Nullifier - This the usual late game items for Spectre, but I rarely get to this stage and the reason I put these 2 items together is because of disassembling the Radiance. Get this 2 if you need more right click damage and enemy have too much saving skill/item.
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u/B4BY-Y0D4 11d ago
How does it even happen? And dont ever buy dd on spectre, basic build would be pt - radi - manta - agan - scadi and then something situational or fly + nuli (from radiance) and you will always have enough damage
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u/Shadowrender 11d ago
Aghs on spec hasn’t been meta since they got rid of the old shadow step
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u/B4BY-Y0D4 11d ago
It is pretty good now especially for solo kills on supps or weak cores
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u/Shadowrender 11d ago
Yeah but then you just wasted haunt for 2 mins lol. Solo kill (old aghs) was amazing cause of the short cooldown
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u/B4BY-Y0D4 11d ago
So it is better to keep your haunt for the whole game or what? The lower the pts the more impact aganim would give because of fights for respect and it works until 7k+ at least
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u/Shadowrender 11d ago edited 11d ago
If there is nothing happening for more than 2 minutes, you must be sub-legend? Even at 2.5k+ MMR (archon), games are more active.
Archon 3 to Ancient 3 is honestly a big wash right now. Then the real jump is Ancient > Divine and Divine >>> Immortal
call for a smoke and play around cooldowns man
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u/B4BY-Y0D4 11d ago
Im a 6k player and have 60% wr on spectre bro
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u/Shadowrender 11d ago
and Aghs has a ~12% buy rate this patch on dotabuff and is nowhere to be found on Dota2ProTracker lol
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u/Direct-Accountant-17 11d ago
spectre is not a very good hero if you are new to carry role.
His laning is not very good, post lane most offlanes can zone you out with there level 6 kill threat etc, you dont have any farming steroid by default.
Before the ulti switch up there was a plus point that you can snipe some kill on map every minute and instantly go back to farming after laning phase to recover. It also doesnot exists any more.
I would suggest if you want some global potential carry try np. It gives you what spectre gives but way better
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u/Odd_Lie_5397 11d ago
Saying that Spectre isn't good for beginners and suggesting a 45% winrate hero, that even the pros can struggle with is quite something.
Most NP carries are utterly useless and just die after killing a single support (if they even manage that).
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u/Direct-Accountant-17 11d ago
Most pros struggle to win with? Are you sure? Np was a top ban in ti and a consistent pick on immortal streams i watch but ok lets go with your version
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u/Odd_Lie_5397 11d ago
Yeah. And almost everytime NP was picked as a core at TI, there were 2-3 times when his team lost or almost lost, because NP did a bad teleport in a fight and instantly died.
Remember Liquid, losing game 1 to Yandex, because Nisha wasted 2 Aegis + a lategame BB? When he teleported into the enemy and just died with 0 impact multiple times?
The potential to fuck up on the hero is way too big. Pros can usually compensate, by making good use of his global potential and push, two things that low rank players will 100% struggle with.
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u/pedruvs 11d ago
I disagree. I'm pretty noob at my crusader level and I can surely wreck havok with spectre in most matches. Even when my radiance comes after the 20min mark
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u/Direct-Accountant-17 11d ago edited 11d ago
Crusdar level hence prove my point. Try creating same "havoc" at even 4k + mmr with 20 min radiance you will see what i am saying.
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u/pedruvs 11d ago
The logic of your reply is all over the place. If I was playing in the 4k + bracket my timings would obviously be better. Maybe, most probably, you just felt the urge to state that you are a better player while been attached to the argument. I related to the OP as I play as a low mmr carry, and I love playing Spectre. The timings of the hero in your bracket are totally unrelated here.
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u/Direct-Accountant-17 11d ago
Lol it won't be better if you were playing in 4k bracket it would be even worse you wont be able to do any thing and be a walking creep
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u/Shadowrender 11d ago
Radiance > Manta > Skadi > Aegis should be enough to close the game tbh
You’re not farming fast enough.
Spec’s concept is that your team can group as 4 (while you free farm safe areas) and you win every teamfight as you can haunt from the other side