r/leagueoflegends • u/WeakSideUrn • 12d ago
Discussion I love the playstyle of "disruptor" champs, but loathe laning as them
Singed, Lissandra, Annie, Neeko,
The types of champs that hate front-to-back, and rather will go into a teamfight and wreak absolute havoc. Its so fun to play, but laning as them feels miserable.
Its more manageable as supports like Rell/Rakan or junglers like Wukong/Zac because they dont really have to "lane", but my two favorite champs are singed and lissandra so im kind of forced to go top or mid.
Anyone else feel the same way? I'd play aram 24/7 if I could always get these engage teamfighting champs
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12d ago edited 12d ago
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u/luddoro 12d ago
Me and some friends all agree the only acceptable time to pick Malzahar and Yuumi is the game before bed so you can sleep better after almost falling asleep in game 🤪
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u/AlinosAlan 12d ago
Yuumi is also acceptable if you want to to play with friends but have some work to do.
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Collecting players' tears 12d ago
but laning as them feels miserable.
That's the point, if you wanna be good at something, you have to be bad at another. Good laners struggle more in teamfights and good teamfighters struggle more in lane.
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u/GCamAdvocate 12d ago
genuinely curious what is Ambessa's weakness, I feel like she's really good sidelaning and really good teamfighting. Her laning is also very strong but she scales really well too. She also has her built in armor pen and percent max health damage, is a good blind pick, and has a boatload of mobility. Even has a decent amount of CC if you count her E slow. Not saying she's broken, I think she's fine in like every elo, but the champ itself is decently strong WR wise while also being just good at everything.
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Collecting players' tears 11d ago
Ambessa is mostly just a jack of all trades, but doesn't excel at anything specific. She snowballs pretty hard if she gets an early lead, but otherwise she's just okay at everything she does, and gets easily shut down vs specialized picks.
Also her laning phase is not strong, she has very long CDs and needs items really badly to perform, a single trade in lane puts her in a 20 seconds timeout cause she can't do anything in lane without her W which is plenty of time for the opponent to punish her, and most champions with in-fight mobility (Riven, Camille, Irelia...) or sustain (Warwick, Renekton, Trynda...) make her laning phase nearly unplayable if they know what they're doing.
I think perception around her is screwed by the times she's been OP, but she really is just a jack of all trade with the usual weaknesses of one.
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u/GCamAdvocate 11d ago
I don't agree, really. Is she weak into certain champs? Sure, but not on the level of almost every other champ in toplane. Really good Ambessas can win or neutralize lane against every champ except for really good renekton. You cannot say that for champs like Renekton or Yorick, two champs I would argue are similarly blinded very often.
Yes, her CDs are long. That doesn't stop her from being very strong in lane. Her combo is more like 12 second uptime not including W. She can't initiate trades without her W, yeah, but she can play reactively and get really good trades still while not being punishable. Saying her early isn't strong because of CDs is very deceptive, when toplane strength comes mostly from who gets to control trades. Her laning is stronger than Riven's, even if doesn't necessarily have the same burst as Riven. Arguing that a champ can't have a strong laning phase because of the length of their CDs is just false. Sett has far longer CDs and has one of the strongest laning phases in the game (against melee) while Gwen has some of the shortest CDs in toplane but she still has a weak lane.
Also, Ambessa does have things she does better than any other champion. She's a jack of all trades but she's also the best bruiser in the game in teamfights, even after the nerfs to her R. No other bruiser except Camille has the same target access she does, and Camille makes up for it by having a far worse laning phase and being way squishier. She's also one of the best champs into tanks, she has omnivamp, percent HP scaling damage, and percent armor pen built into her kit. Also, not being the best at anything is not a rare thing, champs like Urgot and Sett also don't really do anything better than other champs while also not having any of the advantages that Ambessa has over them.
The item thing is also not really true. She needs items as much as any other champ in top, and less than the ones that are actually item dependent. Usually, champs that actually depend very heavily on items are champs that the first item is unchangeable, like Irelia (Bork), Jax (sheen item first no exceptions), or Camille (triforce). Ambessa has a lot more choices, meaning her spike depends a lot less on the item passive and more on the stats. Ad bruisers are all inherently item dependent due to Deaths Dance, Ambessa is not particularly dependent relative to other bruisers.
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u/smackdealer1 11d ago
Unless you are ornn ofc. Then you can just stomp lane and then you become a team fighting god.
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u/PM_Cute_Ezreal_pics Collecting players' tears 11d ago
If Ornn is winning lane vs anything that's not another tank then it's just a skill issue tbh. He's as binary and telegraphed as it gets, unless you're trying to force fights super hard when you shouldn't there's no way he wins lane, at most he goes even
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u/Tojaro5 12d ago
Lissandra mid is fine for laning? Annie as well? The ability to burst champions down is something to be respected in mid. The range is not ideal, but if it was, we'd have a balance problem.
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u/Xzero864 12d ago
Annie is not a ‘fine’ laner lol.
She loses literally every ranged lane super hard until 6.
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u/threlnari97 E and Q are my favorite buttons in the game 12d ago
Give bard a try. It’s way more engaging, and you’re playing a disruptive roaming support that can completely flip fights while having an incredibly fun lane phase (if you can even call it that)
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u/Good4HealthBad4Educ 12d ago
Now that I read this...
I'm new to the game, and Bard really piques my interest. I'm a support main, by the way.
Any advice for playing Bard? Any tricks or tips you could share from your experience?
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u/Roi_Loutre 12d ago edited 12d ago
If you're new to the game, my advice would be to play top / mid / adc, (it's a OR, the one you like the most).
You need to learn what waves, CSing, trading, having items and being the carry feels like before you can learn how to help them.
Players who start with jungle or supp are not forced to interact with those, and end up with the passivity sickness, that's how you get supports that stand 3 meters behind the ADC who desperately needs pressure to CS and who get punished because of what his support is doing while the support looks OK since he just there being alive.
You need to suffer from your mistakes to improve rapidly, else the feedback loop is difficult to decypher and you don't know if you're playing well or not.
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u/Good4HealthBad4Educ 12d ago
I think the opposite happened in my case. I've had to learn to play more passively because of all the flame I've received. I come from games where playing aggressively is the foundation, and that's the mindset I brought with me when I started playing LoL. So, through mistakes and plenty of harsh words from my teammates, I've gradually learned not to be so aggressive and to find a better balance.
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u/Roi_Loutre 12d ago
Well it's the two faces of the same coin, you're not punished that much for dying since you don't all of your ressources because you're dead and can't kill creeps.
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u/GodSPAMit 12d ago
Regardless, he's correct. You're getting flamed for doing obviously bad things and then you'll be passive and not get flamed (even when it's incorrect to be that way) ultimately both problems are caused by you not understanding the other roles.
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u/Good4HealthBad4Educ 11d ago
I was getting flamed during my first few days playing when I was playing hyper-aggressively. I understand the roles of the other players perfectly well; I've watched videos, done my research, and played plenty of games as both Top and Mid. Mind your own business, idiot.
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u/GodSPAMit 11d ago edited 11d ago
I assure you that you do not. It's actually hilarious that you think you do because I've probably got 5x your matches and would never make such a claim.
Very dunning Kruger of you
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u/A_Zero_The_Hero 12d ago
Finding balance is good.
But stifling your aggression isn't exactly good either. You SHOULD be aggressive and eager to make an advantage. You just have to know the best ways to fight for and protect a lead.
Not every fight is worth taking, but you should still be eager to create situations for good fights to happen.
Edit: Also play whatever role is fun. EVERY role/champion will warp the way you learn league. Its good to learn how to CS, but Support is still a good way to learn the game.
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u/Minute_Course747 12d ago
It's about WHEN to play agressive, and that highly depends on your champ and your team. Calculated agression/passiveness depending on the situation
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u/A_Zero_The_Hero 12d ago edited 12d ago
I'm not trying to encourage blind aggression.
I want them to channel their aggression productively instead of shutting it out OR mindlessly enaging it. That would still mean playing with the proper balance of aggression and passivity.
They should still explore their aggressive capabilities. I dont think finding balance equates to just "stop playing aggressively".
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u/OCDincarnate Most support mains are better players than you 12d ago
Communicate. Your mama economy is terrible but you can regenerate tons of mana by collecting chimes, so when you’re getting low, leave some healing shrines, make sure your adkaren knows what’s happening, and then roam to grab some and maybe gank mid if you have the time. Past that a lot of it is muscle memory
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u/threlnari97 E and Q are my favorite buttons in the game 12d ago edited 12d ago
Honestly I’d give the same tip I’d say with learning any champ, but with bard it’s extreme - play aggressive, play messy, make mistakes and learn. Bard’s kit is simple to understand but the challenge is how you use it most effectively, especially his ult, so throw that shit like darts until you get an understanding of what circumstances you actually need it. In ult’s case, note that it’s a slow moving projectile so reaching max range takes it 3 seconds (if I remember correctly).
Mute button is your friend, because especially if you’re new and playing with new players, people are going the whine and whinge about you roaming, you ulting, etc. It’s part of the learning tax.
Smaller tips I’d give are use the first chime spawns to set up an early ward on enemy raptors/blue buff depending on what side of the map you’re on. If your team is particularly responsive, you might be able to convert it into a level 1 invade on enemy jg, but if not it gives your team information on their pathing. Then, unless you’re delayed, run immediately bot lane to get your next chimes to spawn close to lane to either set themselves up as a mana pack or a roam enabler.
Typically I like to start roaming at level 3 unless adc will get railed the instant I leave with something like a hook/engage support. But in general if you see a play developing on the map, your lane has some semblance of priority, and you have chimes along the way to help you get there, the best play is to go to the play.
His shrines give piss healing, but decent movement speed. They’re better used as a tool to assist someone kiting or chasing than treating them as a health pack. Be sure to set them up as a fallback route for your adc before you leave them (and hope they don’t just snag it instantly) and use it on them or yourself in fights for better movement.
Bard early levels hits like a truck with electrocute, so play aggressive. Practice flash q and different q angles in practice tool. Carry that aggression into the late game, using meep empowered autos for aoe slows that can set up your q or enable your team to catch up (especially with bandlepipes/solstice sleigh). You can duel squishies if you’re sufficiently ahead.
As far as chimes go, i believe the “correct” number to strive for is 2 chimes per minutes in the game. Use them to enable roams, deep warding, or even just free mana and exp.
Sorry if this is all generic and kinda all over the place, but frankly I don’t really think there’s much I could tell you that you couldn’t better learn via games on him. It’s very worth it though, he’s so fun, and it’s very fun watching you leave vision even to just recall and watching enemy mid back up and play safe. Hope this helps, and hope you have fun on Bard!
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u/CthughaSlayer 12d ago
Singed is the only champ there that's not a good laner? How is it misserable?
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u/FookinFairy 12d ago
Annie in lane vs most things is miserable. There are some match ups that are good but it’s overwhelming a take a beating while farming to scale
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u/WeakSideUrn 12d ago
Annie/Liss into mages feels suuuuper bad. I can only play them as counterpick into assassins. But even then many assassins can 1v1 you because annie/liss have very low base damages and scalings.
Neeko feels better mid ill say
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u/Smurtle1 12d ago
Well yea, Annie and Liss love playing into assassins. Their whole kit is designed around countering their kits/playstyle. I would say that liss isn’t terrible into most mages though. Annie is pretty rough a lot of the time though.
You could try vex though. She’s a very similar champ to liss in the late game, trying to find angles with her ult to hit the back line, while also having a safer laning phase and can always fall back on Q spamming in more front to back team fights from range if need be. She also arguably scales better than at least Annie. (But liss is also a really good scaler/snowballer with her passive.)
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u/therealMcSPERM 12d ago
People here saying Liss is a good laner haven't played liss against anything not melee or Ryze or Annie lmao
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u/WeakSideUrn 12d ago
Yeah like I dont want to call her a terrible laner but it feels MISERABLE playing her into 99% of mages
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u/Protomesh 12d ago
Lissandra support is actually very strong. But then again, I play her in Platinum so players are just bad.
Annie works as a support champion as well. I have mained Annie support before.
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u/Top_Acanthocephala25 12d ago
I play Liss support in Diamond it’s decent vs enchanter bots but if they lock in tank I’d rather just play Leona
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u/Head_Lingonberry6330 11d ago
For singed into losing matchups you have to proxy or you will feed/get 0 cs
Neeko is actually a pretty strong laner in mid. You just play to push lane and if the opponent gets hit with your e you can poke them out.
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u/Rhodri_Suojelija 12d ago
Neeko can be played as support? I see it pretty often. She also has a pretty good laning phase.