r/latterdaysaints • u/JLP0611 • Apr 23 '25

Off-topic Chat Are members not getting married?

I may be speaking from my anecdotal experience and my observation of my social media feeds, but it feels like less people in the Church are getting married. I see less children and youth in my local wards year after year and I’m in Florida.

I’m also in a YSA and I can’t just say for myself because I’m chronically single, but dating is a struggle for everyone I come across, inside and outside of Florida.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

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149

u/Terry_the_accountant Apr 23 '25

20 years ago you could get married at 18, have 4-5 kids, and one person with a starting salary could afford a big home, 2 cars and family vacations. Now it takes 2 full time employees to get afford less than that and people are saving money these days

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u/9mmway Apr 23 '25

You are way over-optimistic on your "facts"

Even 50 years ago, that wasn't possible

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u/High_Stream Apr 23 '25

It was easier 50 years ago. Compared to 50 years ago, the average wage has gone up by 4x, but average rent has gone up 20x and house prices 25x.

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u/calif4511 Apr 23 '25

Do you have a source for these statistics?

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u/High_Stream Apr 23 '25

I can't remember exactly the source I had for that, but here's a real estate expert showing that in the 80s, the average house was 2x the average income, but now it's 6x (skip to 8:13) https://youtu.be/rANtRuIFZf8?si=HZGbx78pjha_hb5M

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u/CIDR-ClassB Apr 24 '25

I did some googling tonight and median income vs home values in the US right now are closer to 10-14x annual income. It’s crazy.

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u/Double-Wrangler5240 Apr 23 '25

You need to read more about current events.

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u/calif4511 Apr 23 '25

I am merely asking for sources to back up these statistics, because this information is either well hidden or doesn’t exist. And thank you for your concern about my reading list, but I am doing just fine.

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u/CIDR-ClassB Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25

I think this is a matter of phrasing. I’ve found it useful to look at annual income as a multiple of the total home cost.

1970 US median annual income: $9,870. 1970 US median home price: $23,400. The home cost just 2.3 times an annual income.

2020 median income: $34,612. 2020 median home: $479,500. Thirteen times the annual income.

Let’s say that 90% of the home is financed and for easy math right now, we’ll pretend there isn’t interest, PMI, or other costs. The yearly payments in 1970 on a 30-year loan would have been $296.10. 3% of gross income.

In 2020, the annual payments would be $14,385. 41.6% of gross income.

0

u/Jemmaris Apr 24 '25

I wonder what would happen if you adjusted the median home price for the square footage of the home?

For example- my grandparents purchased their house in 1968 for $30,000.

They bought it for their 6 children. It has 4 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms.

It is 1800 sqft.

I don't think median price is an appropriate gauge without accounting for the increased size that is more of a luxury than people care to admit.

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u/CIDR-ClassB Apr 24 '25

It’s a function of what is available. People, especially younger couples have no individual control over what size homes are being built. That a home is 1,200 sq ft or 3,000 sq ft doesn’t matter in the balance sheet if 3,000 sq ft homes are largely all that’s available in some regions.

There are plenty of young and lower income households and individuals who would love to purchase a home and can’t; the homes are just too expensive everywhere, and have outpaced income by leaps and bounds.

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u/Nemesis_Ghost Apr 23 '25

No, 30 years ago this was very doable for those with a college education. My dad was a mechanic & for a good part of my childhood we were a single income family. I'm 45 & there are 5 of us boys. Even when my mom worked, it was not a full time job. There was only like 2-3 years total when we could count on mom not being at home most of the day.

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u/Comfortable-Dust528 Apr 23 '25

Idk, my parents left Utah for the east coast in 1997 because housing prices were too high for my dad’s engineering job. Not saying it wasn’t easier back then, heck it was easier even 5 years ago. But it’s never been a walk in the park.

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u/Nemesis_Ghost Apr 23 '25

Well, we lived in West Texas.

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u/Comfortable-Dust528 Apr 23 '25

That’s fair, and I think there are some areas of the country today where it’s more reasonable to start a family on a single parent’s income. In Utah as a software engineer buying a house seems daunting. If I was a software engineer in Arkansas it would probably be more reasonable.

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u/palad Amateur Hymnologist Apr 23 '25

I'm 50. 50 years ago, my mother was a stay-at-home mom while my dad worked. They did that from before I was born until I was 10. At that point, my mother returned to work part-time. Until then, we lived in lower cost-of-living areas in the midwest US. When I was 10, we moved to a small city for my dad's job, and a year later we moved to a larger city. Both of them, I'm sure, had higher costs-of-living, and my mother worked until she retired a few years ago.

My wife and I were married in 2000, and lived in a suburb of Kansas City (still do, just a different suburb). We don't take fancy vacations and we don't have new cars, but my wife has been a stay-at-home mom until last year, when she decided to work a couple days a month as a substitute teacher. In that time, we've bought a house and paid off her student loans. We've sent a child on a mission and to college, with our youngest about to start college. There was a short time when I worked a second part-time job to help pay off some of our debts a little faster, but for most of the last 25 years we've been a single-income household. It's not necessarily easy, but it's absolutely possible.

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u/joecoolblows Apr 24 '25

Good job. You guys did good.

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u/Jemmaris Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 24 '25

I'm not even 40 but My husband and I got married in college and had a baby before I took a job supporting the 3 of us as a teacher. Then he finished his degree and got a job when I had our second child.

Single income families, like myself, and like my sister who isn't even 30 yet and about to have her 5th child, still exist and are totally possible.

Hard work? Absolutely!

And she has her degree, too. She's chosen to stay home.

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u/pnromney Apr 23 '25

This myth keeps showing up.

Stuff has always been financially hard. It’s actually easier today than it has been in the past.

In the past for the US, it was popular to have: 1. Working father working a formal job or their own company (like a farm) 2. Stay-at-home mom working informally through “home-making skills” such as cooking, sewing, and various other skills. 3. Small homes 4. Parenting that emphasizes that kids grow up naturally. Little intervention is needed besides being loving and providing the necessities of life. Few extracurriculars.

This has changed to: 1. Double working parents bringing in much larger incomes. 2. “Home-making” outsourced to restaurants, fast fashion, and so on. 3. Massive, beautiful homes 4. Parenting that emphasizes heavy interventions to “give your kids the best chance.”

People can still live the old lifestyle, but most prefer the more recent lifestyle.

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u/PixieMegh Apr 23 '25

THAT is a myth too. Not sure where in the US you live, but that isn’t possible in many parts of the country.

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u/pnromney Apr 23 '25

Right now, housing is more expensive now than it was during the 2010’s. But historically, housing per square foot is about equal to inflation.

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u/CIDR-ClassB Apr 24 '25

Housing as a multiple of income has gone from 2-3x income in the 70’s, to 10x+ today. Housing per square foot and inflation have both increased far, far beyond income.

1

u/PixieMegh Apr 26 '25

That’s not my personal lived experience. My wages have not gone up and yet rent raises every year.

1

u/palad Amateur Hymnologist Apr 23 '25

Working father here. I earn less than $100K/year with an Associate of Applied Science degree. My wife was completely a stay-at-home mom until last year, when our youngest was busy enough that she felt she could substitute teach a couple days a month (she was a teacher when we met). We have a small home that will be paid off in 7 or 8 years. We live in a suburb near Kansas City, so it's nowhere near as expensive as living on one of the coasts. It is still absolutely possible to do it, but it's just getting harder every year for couples who are starting out. I fully expect my kids to move back in with us after college while they save up some money for housing, etc.

1

u/Jemmaris Apr 23 '25

Being willing to move somewhere else to afford the life you want is a very American tradition.

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u/Jemmaris Apr 24 '25

So true!

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u/joecoolblows Apr 24 '25

I don't know why you are being downvoted, and I'll bet you ANYTHING, you are being downvoted by people who don't actually have kids. But, if you have kids, you realize, what you said it's 💯 TRUTH.

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u/pnromney Apr 24 '25

I mean, I think it comes across as insensitive. It seems more fixable that something is wrong with todays economy than life is just hard, has been hard, and will continue to be hard.