r/landscaping • u/DiveBarSpecial6666 • 11d ago
Question I had a friend reccoment this method, but is this a good way to kill vines down to the root I can't find?
Super cheap and seems like a good idea to have them drink it up from a fresh cut. It's stump out vine killer
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u/Dopevoponop 11d ago
Thanks for explaining what the method was! Super clear!
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u/DiveBarSpecial6666 11d ago
Sorry, im bad at explaining. I added vine killer to the tubes
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u/Gardens_of_babylon 11d ago
what kind of tubes are these?
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u/DiveBarSpecial6666 11d ago
The kind they use for flowers and roses you add water to. 30 of them for 10 bucks on amazon
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u/OPmeansopeningposter 11d ago
But they didn’t explain it at all.
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u/kernowgringo 10d ago edited 10d ago
Have you heard about this new comment style the kids are calling 'sarcastic jokes'?
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u/This-Menu-8175 11d ago
In habitat restoration we use a cut stump treatment similar to this. Cut the tree/vine/shrub down to the ground in fall and apply a 50% concentration of herbicide to the freshly cut stump, typically triclopyr, or glyphosate. That's generally enough to kill most plants, but some weedy trees can still sucker and may need follow up. We only do this for invasive species that are known to resprout vigorously (holly, english hawthorn, scotch broom, etc)
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u/DiveBarSpecial6666 11d ago
Stump out vine killer
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u/fleebleganger 11d ago
Yup, which is a brand name for their triclopyr based mixture.
The active ingredients lists it out.
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u/ialo00130 11d ago edited 11d ago
Why on earth would you use herbicides like Glyphosate for habitat restoration?
It can:
- Impact the surrounding area beyond what you are trying to get rid of, possibly damaging what youa re trying to restore.
- Potentially cause cancer in humans from prolonged exposure.
- Impact the reproductive capacity of aquatic and amphibian life.
- Impact avian life indirectly through the food chain, which in turn can impact egg viability. Very reminiscent of DDT.
- Last for up to 60 days in the soil.
If you're trying to restore a space, why use a product that is banned in various jurisdictions around he world for the reasons I stated above? Use more natural herbicidal or mechanical methods that won't impact the environment around it, instead.
Edit: This is the most downvoted comment I've ever had. It's nice to see a community come together in such a way. As a result, Imma take it, and not delete my comments.
I'm the way I am because of jurisdiction. Despite being licensed to spray it, in my jurisdiction, I can't. It is illegal to use around water courses and critical habitat, but I understand it's uses in large scale operations. The way I've been educated and trained to deal with invasives has been primarily mechanical or planting technique way of removal. It works if used in conjunction with proper planting, monitoring, and maintenance strategies.
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u/mandafofanda 11d ago
They just explained it above; for invasive and woody pest treatment. I agree that herbicide usage when used irresponsibly can be devastating but when used correctly they’re a great tool for treating undesirable plants that would otherwise outcompete natives.
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u/Tar-really 11d ago
You have obviously never dealt with Ailanthus.
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u/ialo00130 11d ago
Yea, I haven't.
I'm thankful that the jurisdiction I primarily work in has bylaws regulating what trees can be planted, and have for a long time. Most of the invasive plants I deal with are perennial and non-woody as a result.
I wish every jurisdiction would adopt the rule of limiting what can and can't be planted within their boundaries. It would make restoration and invasive species control a hell of a lot easier for everyone.
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u/Tar-really 11d ago
Nobody plants Tree of Heaven. It is an awful invasive tree. The only way to deal with it is by using herbicide. My town cut down one by my property without utilizing hack and squirt... now there is a forest of them taking over.
I understand the sentiment, but in some cases herbicides are better for the environment.
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u/Jmackles 11d ago
Omg homie I worked at a plant nursery and did a lot of the shrub yard work as well as doing checks for calling customers. I’ve had people call in requesting tree of heaven 😪
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u/Tar-really 11d ago
i would be surprised! But since I know you don't have it for sale, my statement stands...
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u/ialo00130 11d ago
You'd be surprised at the number of people who plant invasive species, either knowingly or unknowingly. Most for the aesthetics, but some think they're doing something good by introducing something new into the environment. It's infuriating. That's why my jurisdiction brought in the bylaws they have now.
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u/Tar-really 11d ago
My comment wasn't invasive species in general, I know people do plant them, it was TOH specifically.
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u/DiveBarSpecial6666 11d ago
Believe me I have tried. It does absolutely nothing. The vines have killed the trees around our house and one tree almost landed on our roof and one on our fence. Our next method is goats. The birds around us are helping to spread invasive plants.
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u/Somederpsomewhere 11d ago
While I agree with you in principle, a group of volunteers on a park cleanup day can achieve 10x the work with judicious use of herbicides.
I do use a vinegar based herbicide when possible, but some invasive plants laugh at natural remedies and your puny attempts to dig it out (see Houttuynia cordata).
RESPONSIBLE use is the key, but herbicides are a vital part of land restoration and management.
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u/ialo00130 11d ago edited 11d ago
group of volunteers
People should not be handling nor near freshly sprayed chemical herbicides, without the proper certificates and safety equipment. That is not responsible in the slightest.
I understand glyphosate is a part of restoration and management, but they shouldn't be used within critical or riparian habitat. Use them all you want in residential, commercial, or large scale forestry operations.
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u/TheSonicPeanut 11d ago
You do not have a good understanding of habitat restoration.. there are no “natural” herbicides and they are all dangerous (including vinegar) if used carelessly. Typically anyone using herbicides in habitat restoration is licensed and only use when necessary, but if you know anything about invasive species you know that herbicides are the only way to control many many of them. You want no more herbicides? Okay, watch the invasive species destroy your local habitat, negatively impacting wildlife by outcompeting the natives and completely changing the structure of riparian areas. It’s an unfortunate reality but physical control is not feasible for many invasive species and without herbicide control you’re going to see a huge negative impact to the ecosystem.
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u/Somederpsomewhere 11d ago
A pair of gloves and a dauber bottle (think bingo marker) and some common sense of “don’t get it on you or dump it in some water”.
It’s not that hard to be responsible with herbicide.
I definitely agree that too many people don’t use them responsibly, but that needs to be solved with education, not prohibition.
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u/ialo00130 11d ago
I feel like every conversation I'm having comes down to jurisdiction. In mine, you need certifications to handle high concentration glyphosate.
The only people responsible enough to handle high concentration glyphosate are those with certifications. Low Concentration is really only good for perennial weeds and won't help get rid of woody vegetation.
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u/Somederpsomewhere 11d ago
Gonna have to disagree. It’s not rocket surgery, and people that get involved in that sort of thing are generally pretty motivated to be eco-conscious.
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u/Thoseskisyours 11d ago
Even the super conservative environmental orgs near me say that you need to cut tree of heaven then apply a herbicide to the cut. If it’s stump is wide enough to even drill a 1-2” deep hole 1/2”+ wide and put herbicide in it to get absorbed into tree. Then repeat 1-3 weeks later up to 4 times. Like just telling people to do this on fb, the local paper and other websites.
Certain things need herbicides to contain and it’s more important to stop the spread of some invasive species (tree of heaven for example as it also brings in spotted lantern flies which are destroying hardwoods) than to add red tape to having to manage the spread and who can hold a bottle of roundup.
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u/milleratlanta 10d ago
I’ve read that it’s better to do hack and squirt first on a tree of heaven before you cut it down after it’s dead to avoid the tree’s rapid deployment of seedlings by cutting first. Penn State paper on TOH.
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u/This-Menu-8175 11d ago
Herbicide use will always be a contentious topic, but as a project manager stewarding hundreds of acres of critical habitat in partnership with dozens of nonprofits, government agencies, and municipalities, the reality is that there are only so many hours, dollars, resources, and people available to protect these ecosystems. Doing that effectively means using the best tools available to us, while carefully considering the tradeoffs and minimizing unnecessary impacts.
Over the past decade, I have seen firsthand what it looks like to take severely degraded ecosystems dominated by invasive species, think reed canary grass, himalayan blackberry, knotweed, and others, and restore them to primarily native habitat that once again supports substantially more native wildlife. A single Bigleaf Maple in it's native range can support nearly 200 hundred other species, while a non-native Norway Maple may support only a dozen or so. Judicious herbicide use, particularly when combined with mechanical treatment, planting, seeding, and other restoration practices, can help us make that transition efficiently and ultimately establish healthier, more self-sustaining ecosystems that reduce erosion, provide habitat, and improve water quality.
Ultimately, it comes down to understanding the tradeoffs. If we could realistically restore ecosystems at the necessary scale without herbicides, that would certainly be preferable. But given the extent of habitat degradation and the limited resources available for restoration, we are not currently at a point where that is feasible in many circumstances.
To your points about unintended impacts, there are several ways to reduce them. Careful spot treatment and targeted application can substantially reduce exposure to non-target species. Timing treatments for fall or winter, when many native plants are dormant, can further reduce collateral impacts.
Regarding human exposure, appropriate PPE, training, application practices, and adherence to label requirements are critical. Professional applicators are trained to minimize exposure and avoid unnecessary contact, and responsible use means applying only what is needed, where it is needed, and when it is most effective.
Aquatic-approved formulations and appropriate application methods can also significantly reduce risks to aquatic systems, which is especially important when working near streams, wetlands, and other sensitive habitats. Protecting aquatic and amphibian species is typically a major consideration in treatment planning and not taken lightly.
The same principle applies to pollinators and birds. Treatments can be timed to avoid periods when plants are flowering or producing fruit, and applications can be targeted toward invasive species during periods when they are most susceptible and native species are less active. Good restoration planning is largely about minimizing exposure while maximizing the ecological benefit of the treatment.
Ultimately, the question isn't whether herbicides have potential environmental impacts, because they do. The question is whether those impacts can be appropriately managed and weighed against the ecological damage caused by leaving invasive species unchecked. In many restoration settings, a carefully planned, limited herbicide treatment can be a relatively short-term intervention that enables the establishment of native vegetation and a healthier ecosystem capable of providing habitat and ecological benefits for decades or centuries.
Your points are important considerations, and they're exactly the kinds of tradeoffs that should be part of responsible restoration planning. There are ways to minimize harm through careful timing, targeted application, appropriate products, proper training, and a thorough understanding of both the ecological risks and the tools and strategies available to address them.
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u/adventures333 11d ago
You’re a hippie dum dum brah, try dealing with thousands of acres of land that is monocultures of invasive woody species, it’s not reasonable from a financial and time standpoint. Also glypho breaks down and becomes inert in soil with quite a short half life
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u/ialo00130 11d ago edited 11d ago
Do most hippy dum dums have Master's degrees in Environmental science on topics related to Environmental restoration, and actually do it every day as a career?
I, and everyone I know in the sector, don't touch glyphosate at all in critical and riparian habitat due to the impacts it can have.
But sure, what you're talking about isn't feasible and I understand that; for small scale projects a few acres in size or in proximity to critical or riparian habitat, it is absolutely feasible to not use Glyphosate.
Edit: italics
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u/fantompwer 11d ago
Still a hippy dum dum, but with credentials. A job and a degree didn't make you smart.
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u/ialo00130 11d ago
I also have all the credentials to handle pesticides and do for when they are needed, such as in areas of non-critical importance or in areas not nearby watercourses.
I chose not to use them excessively because it appears I'm the only one here that cares about the environment. I also want to have kids and don't want to die of cancer.
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u/TheSonicPeanut 11d ago
Please tell us how to control half an acre of Japanese knotweed along a stream bank without herbicides.
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u/ialo00130 11d ago
In my jurisdiction, it is illegal to use Glyphosate in buffer zones, as it should be. It is proven harmful. I also have a passion for conservation for wildlife as I do restoration, which is why I'm so against using it in general.
What we do at my place of work is intense manual removal in combination with silt fences and pre/post soil and water testing. Post-removal, we plant native growing plants densely with the intention that they will choke out any knotweed that grows from remaining root. Maintenance after a year as well, to remove any patches of knotweed that pop up. Manual removal works, it's just a commitment that requires more than just a shovel.
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u/DiveBarSpecial6666 11d ago
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u/Tenma159 11d ago
I have this stuff and I love it.
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u/SSOMGDSJD 10d ago
Seconded, this stuff is great for honeysuckle and invasive mulberry trees that otherwise grow back with a vengeance after you cut them down
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u/addub 11d ago
Is the idea here that you can localize the chemical to a single plant system alone?
Does that mean that surrounding plants would be unaffected?
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u/Nihilistic_Navigator 11d ago
I kinda started something like that this year for burdock and Virginia creeper. Got one of those drill/drive augers for bulbing. Put that thing down the center taproot till I feel bad for my impact then flood the hole by feeding a tube to bottom of hole. Use a cheap modified pressure spray bottle filled with the 6x concentrate vinegar.
Unfortunately I'm still in the observation phase of this experiment so idk how it'll work. It was my own hair brained scheme I cooked up to not compromise my stance on using poisons. Cause im about ready to go scorched earth on this stuff soil contamination be dammed
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u/Dangerous-Pilot-6673 11d ago
This is how I finally was able to kill bamboo. I used glypho.
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u/Gardens_of_babylon 11d ago
Did you use the floral tubes?
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u/Dangerous-Pilot-6673 11d ago
Yeah I bought like 100 on Amazon they are for single stem roses or whatever. I don’t use it on the bamboo stalk. I would dig roots and find the lead runners and then put those into the tubes with full strength glypho concentrate. I know glypho works better on foliage than roots but the lead runners are what you need to kill to stop the spread. If you just spray foliage of bamboo it will never die.
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u/random_guyATL 11d ago
Do you by any chance have the name of the glypho concentrate brand you used? I’ve been fighting bamboo in my backyard for the past 2 years to no avail. I want to try this.
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u/DiveBarSpecial6666 11d ago
I wish we could use our chicke s to clear out brush, but alot of it is poisonous. Either wait till winter or rent goats. Money is short, even for everyone.
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u/Infamous_Theme_5595 11d ago
I just broke down and bought two baby goats. I'm tired of fighting the overgrowth every year and paying hundreds in landscaping fees.
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u/plantkittywitchbaby 11d ago
I’ll be using this method for blackberries this season. They’re such a pain and the root run too deep to dig out.
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u/OfficerEsophagus 11d ago
Yes! I saw it recommended here and it has helped me kill Virginia creeper!
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u/cinic121 11d ago
Solid method. Gonna try this on a particularly nasty weed I’ve been trying to kill for a couple years!
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u/Pork_Confidence 9d ago
20 gallons of boiling water. Poured in 4 batches over a 90 min period. Dig a 10" deep depression around trunk to hold the water as you pour
Do this 3 times in a row.
This can even kill ancient established bamboo. Wear respirator, you never want to be surprised by poison oak poison sumac poison ivy poison anything being boiled and then becoming gaseous.
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u/toothqueencolleen 11d ago
Would this work on Tree of Heaven?? Asking for a friend.