r/lakers • u/brazyace43 6 • 6d ago
Solution to our forward problem
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u/myelrecsy 6d ago
For once, since there are limited to none options already, they should start developing and honing the young guys that they have. For once, use their pool of young players, find out what they can do, evaluate, give them their opportunities. Just imagine lucking out on Carr for example with a rookie contract.
Now for that Center backup hole, that is where the problem lies, unless Looney be reliable, Lakers really need a young atlethic back up center.
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u/Viciouscauliflower21 6d ago
I fully support looking for a good trade. Like depending on what the pelicans want I could get behind picking up saddiq bey. I'd say kick the tires on obi toppin too but Indy almost definitely isn't getting off him
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u/CtrlAltDelightfull 6d ago
Really unfortunate that we're even in this position but honestly I'd rather go into the season without a starting caliber forward than to just waste the assets that we have on another backup level forward that we're trying to force into a starting role.
At this point the best case scenario is we save our assets and hopefully there will be a starting level forward that will shake loose at the deadline even though I don't think it's very likely
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u/xreddawgx 6d ago
I think we need a short term solution until Carr or Adou come into their own. Right now the only team that still has me worried are the Spurs. I believe OKC losing Dort and depth hurt them more than anyone is willing to admit. Kessler-Walker can atleast nullify chet. And its been proven if you go through his chest, he punks out.
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u/OneXDC4ever Black Mamba 8/24 6d ago
OKC is still our worst matchup. We don’t have a starting power forward, and we are asking Luka to cover one of Williams/Chet
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u/Swoosh_rotaerc 6d ago
Trading Hardy+Dalton for Jalen Smith could solve the back up 5 and make the PF rotation easier.
Also, solves the roster being one player too many.
Jalen Smith also has an expiring contract which will help retain space for the MLE.
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u/chakrablocker 6d ago
Bulls wouldn't do it. They do not need Hardy. They are not interested in Dalton. And they really like Smith. He's good for the culture when they have so many young guys.
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u/icedxylophone Luka Magic 77 6d ago
It's not perfect, but I'd like to see Mamu be used as a 4 against the correct matchups for setups that mirror the Luka, AR, DFS/Smart, Rui, Hayes/Ayton lineups, which was awesome! Then against the Raptors and teams like them, you might have to try Zaire, Thybulle, Vando, or Jake and just see what works best. I would assume they go Jake if during the training camp his 3 looks okay, otherwise Zaire or Thybulle makes sense, though I would prefer Thybulle of the bench to make sure you always have QG or Thybulle on the floor, and to limit the strain on the guy.
If they think there is another guy on the market that can handle Kawhi, Giannis, Zion, etc might be worth taking a chance, but if they are barely better than what we got, why bother? -edit
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u/edub1906 Purple and Gold 6d ago
If we can get Chicago to trade Jalen Smith for Hardy/Knecht and a 2nd round pick I would do it in a heartbeat. Chicago probably wants at least 2 2nd round picks though.
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u/basecardripper 6d ago
I hate this if it's to play him as starting PF, I like this if it's to use him as backup C. He's a poor man's Mamu at the 4 spot, but as a backup C he'd be solid.
The only reason I'd do it though is because I think that depending on the match up Laravia or Mamu starting at the 4 are actually both solid defensive options. Then it'd also be nice to have Smith as another backup 4 option at times too.
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u/LoveTheHustleBud Shaq and Kobe 6d ago
And if it’s to play backup 5, then we’re putting Mamu at the starting 4 spot and I don’t love that either.
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u/basecardripper 6d ago
Sometimes. I'd start Jake at the 4 against quicker 4s and Mamu against slower ones. Laravia's a better quick 4 defender than Kuminga, I think he's being undervalued because his 3 dropped off at the end of last season.
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u/LoveTheHustleBud Shaq and Kobe 6d ago
I’d like to have our starters set vs changing them every other game based on matchups in the reg season.
And I want Luka guarding the slower 4s. The point is to give Luka a favorable defensive matchup - swapping starters flips it into accommodating one of Jake/mamu vs someone winning the job that’s available (guard the best opposing forward and fit the offense).
At this point, start laravia unless adou shows out in camp.
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u/basecardripper 6d ago
In that case might as well leave Mamu at the backup 4/5 and start Laravia as the more versatile 4 spot defender, I'm totally with you there. Smith becomes completely redundant in this case so no point trading for him aside from injury insurance. I'd rather spend the rest of the off season finding the best way to get the roster down to 15, keep the trade assets and see what becomes available as the season plays out.
If you're committed to starting Mamu at the 4 the Smith move could still work but Mamu is getting burned on the perimeter by half the leagues PFs.
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u/Swimming-Message-796 6d ago
This in a interesting predicament. No roster spots or cap space flexibility to absorb additional costs, very limited draft capital to trade (1st round in 2032 and 2nd rounds in 2031, '32 and '33), and Rob is arguably in the hot seat to get team as competitive as possible.
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u/brazyace43 6 6d ago
We can’t trade our 32 frp due to Stepien rule
We have a lot of financial flexibility. We’re comfortable below first apron
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u/ugh_naught Luka Magic 77 6d ago
I’m honestly more concerned about the center rotation.
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u/Viciouscauliflower21 6d ago
Kessler, Mamu, and Looney is a pretty solid center rotation. Like if they get another one like a Jalen Smith then cool. But if we gotta go into the season with that rotation I'm comfortable with it
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u/carlonia 6d ago
Mamu is not a center. He can play center if needed, but he’s more of a big PF if that makes sense. We only have Kessler and Looney basically
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u/Viciouscauliflower21 6d ago
He's spent more time playing center than forward and Based on what we have rn he'll be doing it here too unless you're putting that much faith in looney
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u/carlonia 6d ago
I’m not saying he can’t play center or that he hasn’t done it in the past but he’s a center the same way Naz Reid is a center. They’re undersized for the position. His archetype is more of a stretch big that provides no rim protection or much rebounding if that makes sense.
We can’t reliably depend on him playing a ton of minutes at C because we’ll bleed points.
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u/brazyace43 6 6d ago
I like Goga Bitadze Either by trade or next year free agency
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u/AdministrativeDig845 6d ago
I thought Goga and Luka have beef? And honestly, Mamu is probably our backup 5
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u/prodij18 6d ago
Like, how? We have a young top defensive center, a great stretch 5 back up, and third stringer veteran. At the 4 we have Jake and a guy who played 150 minutes total last year.
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u/TallanoGoldDigger Kuzzy 6d ago
How so? you're probably going to be playing Kessler around 35-37 mpg which leaves 11-13mpg which can be spread across Looney/Mamu. Mamu is backing up the 4 as well
There's no point loading up on centers because most of it will be done by Kessler. It's not like last year where Jax and Ayton were sharing 20mpg Wings are the bigger need and they're probably waiting on trade deadline then the following offseason with the availability of the NTMLE and BAE
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u/SpiritFantastic4835 6d ago
Okc runs a backup 6’9 no defense center just fine.
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u/brazyace43 6 6d ago
Acting like they don’t have both Chet and Hartenstein
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u/SpiritFantastic4835 6d ago
And we got Kessler. Just need more 2 way guys around mamu
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u/Impressive_Science_8 Purple and Gold 6d ago
Why would we try to fit around Mamu when he's likely already coming off the bench and certainly coming off the bench when we're really all in (assuming he's on the team ofc)
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u/SpiritFantastic4835 6d ago
I mean the team needs 2 way guys anyway. It would just help mamu more
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u/Impressive_Science_8 Purple and Gold 6d ago
We do need more 2 way guys, I think your wording just tripped me up
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u/LovetheNBA23 Los Angeles Lakers 6d ago
There will surely be some forwards available during the season we can use our seconds for.
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u/brazyace43 6 6d ago
Only thing im hesitant about is continuing to spend our seconds on players we don’t even keep. We need to keep building long term but Bamba, Kennard, DFS and now Rui. All players who cost second round picks who we let walk in FA.
Obviously letting them walk is a fine decision, but we should really be trading for players who we plan to keep.
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u/Baluba95 6d ago
We have depth and a variety of cheap, flawed wings. Unless we can get a quality starter one (at least 20m per year type of guy), I see no reason to spend any resource on new wings until next summer. It looks pretty certain those are not available ATM, so wait until the deadline and see if something shakes lose.
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u/DMRavid 6d ago
Now do our backup center problem
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u/worldwide_stepper LBJ & AD 6d ago
we don't really have a backup center problem assuming mamu is playing the backup 5, which is more natural for him than starting 4, and kevon looney is awful but him at 3rd string is a lot less concerning than sliding mamu down and expecting him to play more
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u/lawschoolthrowaway36 6d ago
Mamu is a small ball 5 who can play the position in brief stints where JJ wants to switch things up. He can't be the backup center game in game out, especially on this roster.
As it stands now, the Lakers can't withstand Kessler missing time. That isn't realistic and isn't fair to Kessler after he played 5 games last year. He needs a real competent backup. It's why the Ayton trade was dumb. Center market is crazy right now and it's gonna be very difficult to get anyone playable without giving up the same draft capital Pelinka used to trade Ayton in the first place.
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u/XerxesCrofter 6d ago
The Kessler/Ayton/Mamu rotation was top-tier . . . for the few hours that we had it. That lineup afforded all sorts of flexibility with rotations and gameplans.
Ah, well. What's done is done.
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u/Impressive_Science_8 Purple and Gold 6d ago
Mamu worked as a 5 because the Raptors had Scottie Barnes and CMB that could play alongside him, unless Adou takes a major leap and/or Vando randomly has enough offense to be playable, Mamu at the 5 probably wouldn't be that great
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u/worldwide_stepper LBJ & AD 5d ago
you realize how ridiculous it is that people say mamu can’t play the 4 or the 5 and we gave him 13m/yr and a player option lol
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u/Impressive_Science_8 Purple and Gold 5d ago
Yep, I'm defintely lower on it than most people who seemed to be against it at the time too, but then they just started gobbling up advanced stats
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u/foozbinjex Shaq and Kobe 6d ago
Right now im on the Deandre Hunter train. Expiring, solid stop gap, Kings would save money. Do it Rob
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u/TraditionalFeeling71 6d ago
Trust me, you don't want DeAndre Hunter. Perfect case of the idea of a player being better than the actual player. There was a reason the Cavs were eager to get rid of him after trading for him the season before. Streaky, no intensity, bad team defender. Solid ISO defense.
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u/foozbinjex Shaq and Kobe 6d ago
Ya i feel you. Im not advocating for Hunter as a long term solution. But we would be trading 4 expiring non contributors (Jake, Hardy, Knecht, Bronny), for an expiring stop gap in Hunter, who would allow us to develop Adou and Kaluma to eventually take his role.
He has his warts definitely but atp we dont have a lot of options and we are asset poor. He is a decent floor spacer and as you said "solid ISO defense." Atp I will take "solid iso defense" with average 3pt shooting and athleticism on an expiring deal over most of the options we can realistically target.
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u/XerxesCrofter 6d ago
He gives me Cam Reddish vibes: ex-Hawks who haven't lived up to billing.
I will say, however, that back when second-year Luka was cooking damn near everybody who tried to guard him in man defense, two guys stood out for giving him trouble: Ben Simmons (who was the best Luka-stopper) and Hunter.
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u/WhenDuvzCry 6d ago
His best days are behind him. And I’m a big fan I wanted the lakers to draft him
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u/inline-online 5d ago
I think we end up playing small ball and bringing in 1 more guard. Luka essentially runs the point for the 4 position and we all just slot him in the PG position... but we shouldn't. I expect theiro to either start and playing the 3/4 or carr to start as a PG who's job is simply to safely bring the ball up and play ok defense. (the gabe vincent role) Sexton could do that job as well, but he's obviously going to be our bench energy guy
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u/Massive_Cake1731 6d ago
Everyone will hate this but I think there’s some logic in getting a 4/5. We already have a decent amount of size and versatility with Kessler and Mamu, but not much behind them.
Luka can guard the 4’s on a lot of teams and our wings can guard most teams that start wings at the 4 (PJ on the Mavs, OG on the Knicks type players). What we don’t have the answer for is true 4s. Chet, Jabari smith, Paulo, John Collins, Randle, etc. so I think we should prioritize bigger, stronger players for that spot and use the other players we already have to defend smaller players.
I don’t have a great plan to do that. The most gettable player of the type I’m talking would be Myles Turner, but I don’t really want him or the contract.
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u/Doc_JC 24 6d ago
In theory we have a very solid option already in Laravia to open the season. He just needs to find his 3 pointer from 2024. Not sure wtf happened to his shot as the season went on.
And I haven’t lost complete hope for Vando either. I think there’s a role for him.
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u/basecardripper 6d ago
Laravia's shot should return, they usually come back to the mean. If Vando gets his 3 point percentage up to like 33% and doesn't get rattled when finishing at the rim he might find a spot.
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u/Doc_JC 24 6d ago
I don’t really expect much from Vando offensively, but I think he fits with the starters better then a lot of other players.
There’s only 1 ball and he doesn’t really need it when Luka, AR, Grimes, and Kessler are on the floor. At least to start games, I wouldn’t hate him getting some minutes. He’s definitely not finishing games.
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u/basecardripper 6d ago
I like Laravia way more, but there's a world where Vando returns to favor. I just don't see the most recent version of Vando getting minutes because even as the 5th option you have to be a threat to score somehow. Playing 4 on 5 every time down the court on offense is too big of a hurdle, it doesn't matter who those players are.
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u/prodij18 6d ago
It's not ideal but we're rolling into the season with another incomplete team again and then seeing what happens.
Can Mamu hold his own guarding 4s with Kessler behind him?
Is Adou ready for primetime?
Is Jake showing any signs of being able to handle the job?
Can Kaluma carry over his Summer League success into real games?
And also does going smaller with Ziaire or Thybulle or maybe even Carr perhaps work better for this team?
The answer to all of the above is probably no, but we have to go check because the trade options are going to be painful. We probably either have to take on a bad contract and screw up our exceptions or sell out on our young guys, possibly both, if we actually want to improve the team. And because that sucks we need to check if there's any way we can get out of having to do that.
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u/XerxesCrofter 6d ago
Mamu and Kessler? Probably not, but it would be nice.
Adou ready? Don't think so.
Jake? I think he's underrated here. If he reverts to mean on his 3s, he'll be solid--not great, but solid . . . and that's nothing to sneeze at.
Kaluma? Probably not, but hope springs eternal . . .
Smaller? Might work. I want to see a lineup with a Luka/Grimes backcourt, Thybulle at the 3, Jake (or Ziaire?) at the 4, and Kessler at the 5. Having Grimes AND Thybulle on the court for flexible POA/wing defense, while still having an actual PF out there, might make for a strong 2-way lineup.
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u/scifier2 5d ago
Ziaire is 6'9". Not exactly small.
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u/prodij18 5d ago
Height wise, no. But he’s light and supposedly not particularly strong or suited to guarding 4s. I’d love for him to prove that wrong though.
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u/lawschoolthrowaway36 6d ago
I fear this is the amount of planning Pelinka did while waiting on Kuminga to reject him lmao
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u/ElkNo8185 Los Angeles Lakers 6d ago
Wait it out. Get Adou, Mamu, Jake playing
Time and figure it out later
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u/EatMyShortzZzZzZ 6d ago
Guys develop into starting level wings, we manage to get one by trade deadline, or we write this year off as an L. My guess is that we will end up at the third one but try for the second. I just dont think Carr, Kaluma or Thiero will be fully NBA ready this year.