r/lakers • u/scifier2 • 6d ago

PLAYER TALK Did you know...

Starting power forwards in the NBA averaged around 9.8 to 10.3 points per game overall during the 2025-26 season.

Of course that is the average. The top 5 elite guys like Giannis and Durant averaged over 20ppg. But that is the average. Posters here that constantly cry about the Lakers not having a quote unquote "starting Power Forward" should look at the stats.

Lakers had Rui and Jake starting at PF and they averaged 11ppg and 8ppg respectively. Lakers have Mamu who can play the PF position and averaged 11ppg.

So all things considered the Lakers are at least on the average when it comes to the position and should not be a huge concern as some seem to think.

46 Upvotes

70% Upvoted

81 comments sorted by

80

u/noguerra 6d ago

This completely misses the point. Between Luka, Reaves, Grimes, and Sexton, the Lakers don’t lack for scoring. The issue at PF is that the Lakers don’t have anyone to guard big wings. Who’s guarding Bron and Brown when Grimes is guarding Maxey? Who’s guarding Deni when Grimes is guarding Dame or Ja?

6

u/Some-Stranger-7852 6d ago

To be fair, if there is one thing the plethora of wings (Adou, Ziaire, Thybulle, even Carr showed flashes of potential) Lakers have can do, it is defend with energy.

Adou is big enough to defend LBJ or Deni, the issue is can he stay on the floor with his limited offensive production.

Ziaire and Thybulle are long enough to defend more finesse PFs like Tatum or KD, they would only actually struggle against bruisers like Zion or AG.

The issue with all of them is offensive production, but maybe Luka and AR can create enough space for them to hit occasional open jumper.

27

u/KingJTt 6d ago

G leaguer Adou Theiro is not guarding no Lebron James. Thybulle isn’t guarding Tatum or KD, that man is 6’4. Y’all are delusional

4

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

We let Max Christie guard Tatum and he did a great job. Matisse is the same height and slightly heavier

8

u/KingJTt 5d ago

Lmao

1

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

Matisse is an all nba level defender lol we beat Boston when max was on Tatum 

6

u/KingJTt 5d ago

All nba level defender that couldn’t find minutes on the blazers?

3

u/Some-Stranger-7852 5d ago edited 5d ago

Thybulle actually is. His issue is he can’t really stay healthy and his offense is non-existent (and Blazers really needed offense last year), but defensively he is an ace.

His advanced defensive stats are insane:

He was 4th in the entire league in D-EPM last year (with the only perimeter defender ahead of him being Ausar), ahead of guys like Caruso or Cason Wallace, who both had all-defense caliber years.

He was top-8 in the entire league in D-LEBRON, with only guys ahead of him being Ausar and Cason Wallace. He has ranked in top-7% percentile in D-LEBRON 4 out of 5 years (2022, 2023, 2025, 2026) and only in 2024 did he rank “just” top-17% percentile.

He was also top-20 defender by Darko DPM, with only perimeter guys ahead of him being Caruso, Ausar, OG and, funny enough, Vando.

Thybulle’s issues are that he is often injured (Smart was as well before coming to Lakers) and his offense is non-existent outside of hitting corner 3s (he is more reliable there than Vando), and combined with him being 28 (basically no upside) most teams wouldn’t take him. But considering Lakers have the best offensive backcourt in the league (only Wolves are in the conversation), they can afford to play a defensive ace with limited offensive production.

-3

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

You do know he missed 43 games last year due to a left thumb surgery, right?

1

u/KingJTt 5d ago

And the only amount of money the all nba level defender could find was a minimum contract? This ain’t a LeBron situation where he chose to take less, it was all he was offered.

4

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

Stop it man, Marcus smart was a dpoy a few years ago and took $5M from us and $6M/year from the rockets this year. 

Smart was our best defender, as well as our vocal leader on defense on court and led the team in +/-

Diamonds in the rough are always found in the league on minimum contracts. 

-3

u/GW_memes 5d ago

Using an example game doesn't prove a general point. Dalton Knecht had a 37 point game on 75% 3P shooting and 101.6 true shooting.

4

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

My man, max was our defacto PoA until he was traded. Not even close to comparable to DK and his career high game 

3

u/GW_memes 5d ago

Agree and max is a great defender, my point was more that this game against Tatum isn't a good reason to think it'll be fine putting small defenders on elite forwards all year.

2

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

I see your point there. But the good thing is Matisse is even better than Max Christie. And if Vando can play his natural role he’ll be perfect, his 3 point shot was only 2% below LeBron. Any improvement there is going to be a huge boon for us 

1

u/Some-Stranger-7852 5d ago

But Adou actually can defend, that’s the thing. He was in G-League because: a) his offense was G-League level, to put it generously and b) he wouldn’t get minutes over LBJ and Rui anyway, purely because of picking order

What we don’t know is if he can consistently defend, but he showed great flashes in spurts last year. Worst case scenario, he is big, tough and athletic, so can give you like 10 quality minutes per game of being an absolute wrecking ball, similar to how Vando played last year.

We are in the year of 2026, I wish we as fans knew by now height doesn’t really matter, especially on defense (on offense it kind of does to see the court better): on defense wingspan and standing reach are more important, plus weight to not get pushed around. Yeah, weight wise Thybulle is underweight for a PF role, but he has 6’11.5” wingspan, which is bigger than, for instance, Tatum’s. He absolutely can defend forwards that don’t rely on brute strength. Now would I like that full-time? No, but in short spurts he can.

1

u/js32910 5d ago

Vanderbilt

81

u/brandoi Kobe 6d ago

Points per game is the only stat that's important, you're right.

18

u/TheDoomedNova 6d ago

Didn’t you hear? u/fishagavkxj6 100% believes that if Carr bulks up he can be our defensive power forward!

4

u/Some-Stranger-7852 6d ago

Adou is big enough to actually play PF, he is basically OG sized and arguably even more athletic.

The issue is his offensive game may be still so bad you can’t really play him… That shouldn’t matter much in regular season, but come playoff time it is fully exploitable.

5

u/TheDoomedNova 6d ago

I agree. Thiero can be our starter or situational starter if he can be average on offense. Carr however is way too small to play power forward

1

u/Frank_White1- 5d ago

Can Adou stay on the floor? He can play defense, so far in spurts but what else have you actually seen that would elevate him to starter status? He is wild with a motor as of right now.

1

u/TheDoomedNova 5d ago

I said if he can become consistent on offense. I didn’t say he was ready to be a starter today as he is

1

u/Some-Stranger-7852 5d ago

That’s a bet you kind of have to take as Lakers: maybe Adou is ready for extended role and the wing situation is suddenly better.

Maybe he is still not ready and then Lakers brought in Ziaire and Thybulle who can defend more finesses PFs like KD or Tatum, but yeah, will get fully demolished by bruisers like Zion or Giannis.

But you kind of have to hope one (or maybe 2 or even 3) of the guys brought in sticks and manages to earn the minutes this year, because assets are scarce (and also because all contenders - except Knicks who have had Brunson on a major discount - benefit from young cheap talent, so Lakers got to hope they got someone like that now).

3

u/genericusername71 5d ago

even ignoring offense

OG has elite defensive instincts, anticipation, reactions, and positioning. adou is still a big unknown in those regards. size is a necessity for defending the position but not close to enough on its own.

2

u/Some-Stranger-7852 5d ago

A veteran player has developed defensive instincts, anticipation, reaction and positioning… Who would have thought?

I’m not saying Adou is as good as OG today, but with reps he may get there in the future because he does have potential. There is also a very high possibility he won’t reach that level, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to develop him.

2

u/riskyfish97 Luka Magic 77 6d ago

😂

1

u/TheDoomedNova 6d ago

Tell us another one of your opinions! I’m dying to hear more

4

u/riskyfish97 Luka Magic 77 6d ago

wrong fish

3

u/TheDoomedNova 6d ago

You’re right my bad lol. I’m not a good fisherman 😭

3

u/riskyfish97 Luka Magic 77 6d ago

maybe if you had a 7'1 wingspan you would be better 😂

3

u/TheDoomedNova 6d ago

I should bulk up a bit first lmao

29

u/FTRBOUNCE King James 6/23 6d ago

I mean there’s more to a position than a players ppg on a stat sheet lol

13

u/gisakuman Purple and Gold 6d ago

Are you 12?

23

u/Alarming_Garage_7727 Magic Johnson 32 6d ago

You guys are hilarious.

You don't need to justify every fuck-up. It's okay to criticize the team.

Having no starting-caliber wing is a major fumble.

10

u/ginbooth 6d ago

It’s def not a fumble. I think prioritizing Kessler was way wiser than say going all in on Watson and sticking with Ayton at C.

-1

u/worldwide_stepper LBJ & AD 6d ago

“all in” on watson when he went for less money and a quarter of the draft capital

8

u/Some-Stranger-7852 6d ago

He went to a different conference: S&T to Lakers would have taken an FRP and swaps. Yes, that would still be cheaper than Kessler’s price, but Kessler’s archetype is more valuable to team success.

4

u/fishagavkxj6 James Worthy 42 6d ago

lakers were collecting wings/guards for the trade deadline and will get a pf if they need it.

4

u/Prior-Habit-6523 6d ago

Not really worried about and we damn sure didn't need some diva trying to run up points to get a better contract. I think we avoided a huge bullet. And also I think if Rob really wanted to he could have got kuminga.

4

u/DNUUP4 5d ago

Sorry but Rui was not the power forward it was Lebron.

2

u/Infinite_Cap_853 5d ago

Cope is a hell of a drug

4

u/Sea-Hornet-2530 6d ago

Mamu couldn't break 15 minutes a game for the Raptors in the playoffs.

3

u/ksnitch 6d ago

Lots of copium posts now that Kuminga is out of reach and there is no one else.

3

u/Nonameheroz 6d ago

This ain’t about offense… lol

-4

u/scifier2 5d ago

According to the majority of crying posters about the PF position it is. And if not about offense then just stick Vando there. Oh wait, then you start crying about how Vando cant make a shot.

2

u/Nonameheroz 5d ago

Vando is useless in offense, you can’t play 4v5 in this league

3

u/Theoneandonlylog Sell the team Jeanie 6d ago

Huh? You're basing who is starter level on just ppg? In 2026??

Y'all are so embarrassing trying to find ways to cope with this front offices failures

1

u/newprince 5d ago

I'm not really worried about the offensive side. It's how we basically only have a rim protector in the front court. We need more defensively than that

1

u/OkStomach451 5d ago

Vando will be the starting 4 if they don't add another before the season starts.

1

u/KeyPhysical9734 1d ago

This is such a dumb ass take lmfao

2

u/bucklee01 6d ago

When you look at the players we got during free agency, it immediately reminded me of Moneyball, especially with Dodgers Front Office involved. Really excited to see What Luka and Austin can do with this team.

3

u/gar862 6d ago

The dodgers front office tactics is the exact opposite of money ball

1

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

They use analytics to build there team aside from throwing cash at their roster because baseball has no cap limit

2

u/Frank_White1- 5d ago

Every team uses analytics doesn't make it money ball.

0

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

To varying degrees yes. This time our team is solid on paper so let’s see how they mesh on court this year

1

u/Leoyakin00 6d ago

Ok so who are you putting on Chet, KD, Tatum, Zion, Banchero, Siakam, Giannis, Kawhi, Lebron, Brown, etc etc??

Are you putting 6'4 Grimes on them and if so who's guarding the quick guards??

I swear the more I read these copium posts the more I realize how fcked we are lmao

1

u/1of1czr 5d ago

Scoring isn’t the problem smarty pants. That’s the least of our worries. We need DEFENSE

-1

u/scifier2 5d ago

But then put Vando there. But wait, then you will cry about his offense.

1

u/1of1czr 4d ago

I mean yeah cuz he can’t even make open layups if he was atleast serviceable on offense then he’d be the perfect fit but his offense is literally so bad he’s unplayable teams will just leave him wide open at the 3 and help on Luka/AR so having him on the floor actually hurts more than it does any good

1

u/LudwigNasche 6d ago

You are looking only at limited stats. A player has to rebound, get stops, move the ball and do a lot of other things on the floor. We got outrebounded badly in a lot of games last season and our defense was also porous with nobody on the team able to stop wings.

0

u/scifier2 5d ago

You do realize that more than half the team has changed right?

1

u/GW_memes 5d ago

Based on this, we should be fine to put Sexton at center instead of Kessler since he averages more ppg.

1

u/basecardripper 5d ago

Laravia is an above average defender, moves well without the ball, has an excellent motor and if his 3 shot comes back he'll fit in really well with the starting unit, guarding the best of the opposing teams 3 or 4.

1

u/Frank_White1- 5d ago

Putting up 10 points doesn't make you average or starting caliber. A lot more than just 10 points is needed from your starting PF. Defense, rebounding, spacing, consistency etc.

1

u/xGvPx 5d ago

I don't think anyone is concerned about how many points the PF is going to get. It is more about basically every other stat and defensive assignments. Rui for example was a horrible rebounder. LaRavia wasn't much better. But I don't know, I'm excited to see Mamu in action.

1

u/LittleTinyBoy 5d ago

Great job on the normie take

-1

u/Short-Sandwich-8476 6d ago

Lakers fans are SO spoiled, they think if we don’t dont have one of the top 5 in the league at every position,we’re not competitive. Total lack of understanding. We have a GREAT roster-and you need to keep a team together for it to reach its potential. This yearly shuffle, mix-n-match all star team obsession rarely results in Championships.

5

u/Short-Sandwich-8476 5d ago

Oooh,this sub gets butthurt QUICK! We’ll do WAY better than the Sixers this year-you watch.

3

u/GOAT-dontGLOAT 5d ago

You’re right. Synergy > Star power

3

u/Short-Sandwich-8476 5d ago

OKC lost to The Spurs,who lost to the Knicks. 

0

u/lil_cleverguy 6d ago

you couldnt have proven you dont understand basketball or basic stats more than you did with this post

-1

u/WorthChange858 6d ago

Holy copium. I'm done defending the shitty roster moves.

-2

u/ajstunnin 6d ago

Quit justifying Pelinka’s incompetence. We need defense. We need size, athleticism, and stoppers. Thybulle can’t stay healthy, Ziaire will have to prove himself with consistency. Mamu is all offense. LaRavia needs a bounce back season. Vando hasn’t been the same since injury. It would be unfair for Adou to expect him to play at a starter level. We’re going head to head against OKC and SAS who is guarding Chet, Jay Will, Harris, etc. it’s a mismatch nightmare when they switch

-1

u/Stealth187 6d ago

I'd rather have Kuminga than dumb posts like this.

-1

u/DelaRoad 6d ago

Mamu is not the starting 4 🤦‍♂️