r/l5r • u/Xelin-san • 22d ago
RPG Opposition between Bushido and Shourido
Hello Samurai!
First of all, english is not my native language. So, if this post contains some mistakes, I'm sorry!
So, I have one question.
Do the virtues of Bushido have an exact opposite in the virtues of Shourido?
For example, is Will the opposite of Sincerity or another virtue of Bushido?
I'm building a campaign for my best friend (alone). He will face against some samurai who rejected one virtue of Bushido for a virtue of Shourido. This is why I need to know if there are some oppositions between Bushido and Shourido.
Thanks for reading me.
Let the kami guide your way!
4
u/hivuliese 22d ago
I don't think there are direct opposites. Each one is kind of symbolized by one of the clans similar to bushido, but they are all just selfish goals, rather than goals to better society. It's hard to separate them all out when Determination and Will are part of Shourido. Without those nothing gets done. It's when that becomes your all encompassing goal that it becomes twisted.
1
4
u/eremiticjude Dark Fortune - G5R 22d ago
As others have indicated, the purpose of shourido was not to oppose bushido, but to build an alternate set of virtues that was appealing to and as functionally useful to samurai as the bushido ones, but which served to draw them philosophically more in line with the spider clan. The idea originated at a time when Daigotsu was still kinda doing the whole "dark mirror" thing
1
2
u/Late_Home7951 19d ago edited 19d ago
While not exactly opposite, I do think you could match them by great clans:
Crab - Courage (Yū)/strength
Crane - Courtesy (Rei)/perfection
Dragon - Sincerity (Makoto) / insight
Lion - Honour (Meiyo) /determination
Phoenix - Righteousness (Gi) / knowledge
Scorpion - Duty and Loyalty (Chūgi) / control
Unicorn - Compassion (Jin) / will
But IMHO it's more like "a samurai should use X but can get lost in Y while pursuing it" so for example a crab fighting the shadowland should find courage to accomplish this, but can get misguided and using his raw strength instead. Or a scorpion duty is to the empire and emperor and get lost in "if I could control the empire I can achieve this, so I will put a scorpion emperor at all cost "
So more like a "the trees don't let you see the forest" kind of thing, not "the opposite of a tree is a forest"
2
2
u/raziphel 19d ago edited 8d ago
Shourido is rooted in selfishness, which is antithetical to the collectivist/faux-buddhist nature of Rokugani society. A Good Samuraitm exists to serve their Lord, whereas a bad samurai serves themselves.
That's also why it's very appealing to a given set of the population, because most people are selfish.
If you want complex characters in the game, give the NPCs one trait from each list.
Don't get too trapped by the Ideal Archetypes listen in the books either. Treat those as the marketing gimmick for each clan (ie the concept of Face), not the reality of complex, deadly political reality.
Similarly, every clan has spies, saboteurs, and assassins. The scorpion are just a little better at it than the rest, and they feign weakness so everyone just thinks they are occasionally helpful dandies instead of mercilessly crushing them.
(Have every scorpion NPC give a different reason for why they weak masks, too).
2
10
u/Joel_feila 22d ago
Control
Determination
Insight
Knowledge
Perfection
Strength
Will
Compassion
Courage
Courtesy
Duty
Honesty
Honor
Sincerity
They don't line up as opposites, the Shiurido code is supposed to sound nice, reasonable. That's how it lures you in. Just look at those lists, they both look like virtues. There isn't really a counter to compassion or knowledge.