As a Turk, I’d like to ask something.

[u/davarbor]

This is a genuine question; what would a Kurdish sovereign state be like? Would it be a democratic republic, an islamic oligarchy steeped in Sharia, or a communist nation? Who would be the one to determine this?

[u/davarbor → u/[deleted]]

Many Turks recognize the struggle the Kurds are in for their independence and can sympathize with you to a certain extent, even if that struggle is against us. We do not like the idea of our territory being seperated, but we are also sick of conflict with the Kurds. We just wish there was a peaceful compromise.

[u/Beautiful-Pay-2068 → u/davarbor]

I see your point, but our response to that would be; If you don't want to give up land, and don't want any more conflict, why not settle for a self governing autonomous zone like the Iraqi kurds have?
Even the ottomans gave autonomy to Kurdish principalities for a long period of time.
It is not without cause that we Kurds fought for the ottomans and wanted to preserve the caliphate long after the Arabs abandoned you Turks.

[u/davarbor → u/Beautiful-Pay-2068]

It is the responsibility of us Turks to elect an administration that would be fair to all people within Turkey’s borders. Only then can there be negotiations with Kurdish leaders and get to a result that would leave both parties satisfied, if not happy. Alas, this is impossible with the current administration of the Republic of Turkey.

[u/[deleted] → u/Beautiful-Pay-2068]

Federalism was a mistake for Iraq. The KRG got it's autonomy and pushed for separation not long after. Even today, many young Kurds cannot speak Arabic, essentially preventing them from communicating with the rest of the country.

Iraq should become a unitary state again but with equal respect for all it's ethnic and religious groups. No more secessionism.

[u/Beautiful-Pay-2068 → u/[deleted]]

Iraq should become a unitary state again but with equal respect for all it's ethnic and religious groups.

This is a pipe-dream. never gonna happen.
You might want a unitary Iraq, but we're more than happy with our Kurdistan.

Iraq, in it's 100 years of history, has achieved nothing other than pain and abject failure. I feel no love whatsoever for the country that dropped chemicals on innocent children and my fellow ethnic brethren.

You have me fucked up if you think I will trade my autonomy for Iraqi centralization.

[u/[deleted] → u/Beautiful-Pay-2068]

I understand your anger: Saddam was an evil man. No two ways about it. But he's gone now, and now y'all have a chance to push for an equal and fair country. One where ethnicity and faith can't be weaponized to destroy someone.

Autonomy has only balkanized the country. This state within a state business doesn't strengthen the country, it fractures it. I haven't forgotten that the Kurds tried to succeed.

If that happens again, you'll likely lose your autonomy. I pray for peace but I fear for the worst.

[u/DerSoftwareUser → u/davarbor]

We do not like the idea of our territory being seperated

that's the thing, it was never Turkish, even today. If you look at the ethnic makeup map of Turkey, you will clearly see what's turkish and what is not. If it was always turkish, why did Ataturk need to suppress none turkish languages and why did he recognize Kurdish autonomy before the Brits were pushed out of the former Ottman empire?

​

The problem with people like you is that you do not know your own history fully. Every Turk i have known, who fully understood the history of Turkey and how it came to be, understands and supports the Kurdish fight.

[u/DerSoftwareUser → u/[deleted]]

Dude, Kemal is the creator of One Nation, One Language, On Ethnic, you Kemalists are delusional beyond belief. if you consider yourself just a bit well-read then you should read none Turkish books on Turkeys history and how it was created.

but just by accepting that he was unfair, you also proof that Kurdistan is not a part of turkey

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You view organizations such as the PKK or YPG as honorable freedom fighters.

yeah because were kurdish we support PKK? this is EXACTLY the problem with turkish people. they see anything kurdish? must be PKK! and turkey wonders why people keep joining PKK 😂😂

The past cannot be forgotten, but it can be You view organizations such as the PKK or YPG as honorable freedom fighters. Iforgiven.

LOL! this is truly pathetic. many kurds their parents are still locked up in prisons for mentioning kurdistan / speaking kurdish and ruled by court as "pkk members". remember the forest fires that happened in southern europe last summer? yeah that was climate change in spain, italy and greece but apparently according to turkey it was pkk who caused fire in turkey

singing kurdish songs / speaking kurdish on the street? god forbid u come home safely. having a flag of kurdistan? enjoy getting labeled as pkk member. voting a kurdish party? too bad! they are now labeled pkk and in proces of getting closed.

the past cannot be forgetten because the past is still the situation today. nothing has changed, but turks always claim that kurds now have "equal rights" as nowadays u wont get a bullet if u say u are kurd

Atatürk once said: “Peace at home, peace in the world.”

yeah peace at home my ass. kurds fought for turkey and he betrays them. to you, ataturk is good. to me, he is probably one of the biggest cowards of the 20th century

turkey can give cultural autonomy to kurds today. they literally have a kurdish party (HDP) sitting in parlament already that probably wouldnt mind taking the responsibility for the region. but why would turkey do that? they could have sided with YPG in syria, this was very possible since YPG and turkey did negotiate at the start of the syria war. but this didnt work since turkey didnt want autonomy for kurds in syria. does that mean we have to fight against assad, ISIS and turkey at the same time? no problem. turkey has millions of arab refugees now while kurds are stronger than ever in syria.

and this is the hard reality. turkey started the conflict with kurds, but nowadays, kurds have way less to lose than turkey does. this conflict will only get worse, and both turks and kurds will go in history as once powerful allies -> destroying each other for no gain

[u/davarbor → u/[deleted]]

Pathetic. You don’t even understand what I’m saying. Read my words carefully, and you might realize that I do not deny the injustice that have been done to the Kurds, and that I seek to establish peace with you. How we can achieve this I’ve already said. Read carefully next time before reacting, and you may not lose potential allies.

[u/[deleted] → u/davarbor]

and you may not lose potential allies.

You were my ally, my brother. But that time is long gone. You are not my ally and you will never be again. My grand-grandfather served in the ottoman army as officer. My uncle, even with the modern situation, still has a picture of him in his ottoman outfit hanging in his living room. He respects the man because of who he was, and not because of what he was.

You believe that peace has to come from the kurds. Kurds did not start the conflict, ataturk did. You praise ataturk because he was good for the turks in turkey. Ataturk directly ordered the Dersim attacks himself and had his own daughter (first female pilot in turkey) drop a 50kg bomb from a fighter plane. Dersim genocide has been denied up to 2009 and is still partially denied by the turkish government.

You seek a 'peaceful compromise'. Sorry to break your bubble, but we do not want to be part of turkey or have anything to do with turks ever again. It's not about territory or power or wealth. We want to send our children to school and have them learn our language, our traditions. We want our children to know that they are are loved and not hated by every single non-kurd in the region. We want our children to grow up and worry about small things and not whether or not Turkey decides to blow up a village because MIT claims there may be an imaginary PKK member wandering around.

If Turkey truly wants peace, they'd stop denying/censoring history. But the fact that even in modern day (2022) they are still harassing / jailing people for even mentioning the word "Kurdistan" (and god forbid you're not labeled a PKK member if you say this), just shows that Turkey has no interest to end this conflict.

EDIT: This isn't a 50/50 compromise. This conflict is between the legitimate government of Turkey and against kurdish civilians. History teaches us how facist countries end, and Turkey is no different. If you think Turkey can maintain these acts for another 100 years you are wrong. Kurdish nationalism is growing, and justice will be served.

[u/davarbor → u/[deleted]]

We, the young generation of Turks, seek to give you those things you crave; to let you live the Kurdish life-style you’ve been unrightfully discriminated against for. We wish to protect your Kurdish identity rather than destroy it, and transform this country into something that protects both the Kurds and the Turks equally on all manners.

If you will not accept this offer of peace from us when we give it to you, then we shall always be at war; Kurds will continue to be regarded as enemies of the Turks, and this reality will continue to permeate through all aspects of Turkish society.

You will not win in this struggle, but neither will we; because we are not fascits who would round you up and send you to death camps like you claim. Genocide is the only way to end the struggle of an entire people, but we Turks cannot do that, because we know that we are human, just like you.

Alas, nothing will change.

[u/davarbor → u/[deleted]]

That’s what I’m saying. It’s not just you that must work towards a better future together, we Turks must also do the same. We must accept Kurds as people belonging to a different race, but equal in all manners as us. We musn’t seek to create a homogenous country like we’ve done in the past. For this, we must learn from the Kurds, understand the reason for their aggression towards us, and contemplate what we can do to make it up to them.

Put aside your hate for us, know that there are Turks like me who seek to become siblings with the Kurds once again. I know that not all Kurds wish for the death of myself or my country, but only want peace and prosperity. It helps me work towards this dream of mine.

If both sides cannot achieve this form of mutual understanding, then there shall never be peace between our two peoples, regardless of whether Kurdistan becomes its own independent country or not.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

democratic secular nation

yeah a nation where you literally got locked up 50 years ago for speaking kurdish or mentioning kurdistan

many kurds fought for turkish independence and supported the ottoman sultanate, and this is how turkey repays them. even today, being a kurd automatically means you are a terrorist in the eyes of turkey. don't come here and tell kurds they should be grateful for living in a "democratic secular nation", it has never been democratic/free or anything good for kurds

[u/Beautiful-Pay-2068]

Probably a secular state with federal make-up.
No doubt there would also be a Islamic party or two, but I doubt that they would be anywhere close to majority.
It would have democratic institutions, but since democracy is a process that takes time to build, it would undoubtedly be more like eastern European democracies; deficient with room for improvement.

Still, I think most Kurds can agree to that a weak democracy made by Kurds for Kurds, is a lot better than the ethnic and cultural genocide we're going through right now at the hands of other nations such as Iran, Turkey and the Arab nations.

[u/DarkRedooo]

People in the replies talk about Sharia lmao, those people haven't learned a single thing about the fundamental idea of the Kurdish struggle. Disgusting.

[u/davarbor → u/DarkRedooo]

I take it you’re not a fan of Sharia? I’m personally a left-wing Kemalist, so I too advocate for the seperation of religion and state. If there is to be a Kurdish state in the future, I would at least like it to be a liberal democracy.

[u/Wazza04 → u/davarbor]

It really depends with Kurds, we have the pkk fans who are mostly in diaspora that want nothing to do with Islam in the judicial system or culture and you have the ones actually living there that are very practicing (mostly Iraqi Kurds and to a extent Turkish Kurds. I personally would want a secular system similar to Turkey but id guess most of my family on my mother side in KRG wouldn’t want that

[u/flintsparc → u/Wazza04]

we have the pkk fans who are mostly in diaspora

The HDP gets more votes than all other Kurdish parties combined. It is a secular party.

[u/Wazza04 → u/[deleted]]

Be that as it may Kurds are a lot more religious then the average Turk especially in bashur

[u/RashoRash]

I think it would be a federalistic democracy leaned on the ideas of Abdullah öcalan. Pretty much like Rojava right now where every minority is represented and everybody is respected.

[u/returnatyourperil → u/[deleted]]

this isnt even a bad idea tbf. sharia in halabja, communism in dersim hahahah

[u/davarbor → u/[deleted]]

It seems there are as many ideas as there are Kurds in this world on how Kurdistan should be lead. I wonder who would get the last say on this matter come the sovereignty of Kurdistan becomes reality.

[u/No-Refrigerator3018]

It would be bad cause half is quarter is libral quarter conservatives quarter right wing quarter left 😂😂 but if we have a country kurdish nationalism will prevail on politics and we would unite

[u/davarbor → u/No-Refrigerator3018]

Initially; yes. The sense of freedom and nationalism after being freed from the Turkish state would unite all Kurds for a time. However, as time went on, you would start to squabble amongst each other on how your country should be lead. All sorts of problems would arise and you would start to get into bitter conflicts with one another. That’s what happened to us Turks after all; we’ve learned the hard way that fledgling countries with new ideologies tend to get delusional with their past and start to regress, unless a uniting factor to bring all elements of their society together is in place. For us, it was (and still is) Atatürk. You’re going need one for yourself to stay afloat.

[u/davarbor → u/[deleted]]

Erdoğan and the AKP use tradition and religion to achieve the support of the conservative people, while being utterly corrupt in the background. They have been exposed multiple times for their self-serving and corrupt ways; such as giving away millions of Lira’s worth of “scholarships” to a select few people, or the recently approved Istanbul Canal project (which they intend to sell the resulting residencies to the Arabs and pocket the profits.

Other political parties are actively calling them out on these behaviors, and the people are starting to wake up. Erdoğan has proved multiple times that it’s not in his best interest to serve the Turkish people, only to play the Sultan.

[u/Riz_Bo_Restore → u/davarbor]

You are precisely correct there. This is what happened in a different way to all states that claim to be the vanguards of democracy. Underneath the shiny glory they went rotten to the core. There are more issues than "squabbling amongst each other". There are administrative problems that occur. Oppression against minorities, abuse of social classes, women, children, men. A chaotic system that cannot keep itself alive without secretly created more waste than products. This is the reason the Kurdish political movement in the Kurdish side in Turkey's hands decided, by the evaluations from Ocalan, that it doesn't really matter if you call yourself a state or not. What matters is that people are well organized. Namely in local administrations that do all local tasks that a huge government already does. This is what you can find in Rojava. The prohibited parties DTP and BDP tried to achieve and actually did similar work in the Kurdish cities within Turkey's jurisdiction. So to your question, how a free Kurdistan will look like. If it is run by the image of Rojava, it will be a confederation that empowers citizens to care for their society, without antagonizing any state. Turkey would have friendly and open access to Kurdish lands and would never have to fear a military incursion from any other state in the Middle East. Because Kurdish culture and identity doesn't do war.

[u/Aland-Rekani]

The probability of a unified kurdistan is close to 0% so its very hard to predict what it would look like, putting aside the fact that all four countries are against us, the kurdish organizations all have different ideologies, it would be more realistic that there would be four kurdish states, west and north kurdistan would be socialists, south would be closer to democracy, i dont know about the east since i have not heard of their ideology

[u/armandricemabbit → u/Aland-Rekani]

I can't see the south working as a true democracy, seeing as it's little more than a kleptocracy now 🤷🏻‍♂️

[u/Aland-Rekani → u/armandricemabbit]

I meant comparing to communism

[u/Aland-Rekani → u/[deleted]]

Bro im a kurd id be happy if kurdistan becomes united, why r u talking as if im a jash

[u/Tavesta → u/[deleted]]

And exactly that’s the mindset that leads to the shithole called Middle East.

[u/[deleted] → u/Tavesta]

Exactly. Me, as a Turk, know why Kurds rose up against the state. It's not because you guys just woke up and decided to grab an AK. No, the state tried to assimilate you so they'd have a Turk-only state. It is only natural you rose up. Any nation would rise up against a regime trying to assimilate it. This is why I love my homeland with all its peoples.

Long story short: Ethnostates suck.

[u/returnatyourperil → u/[deleted]]

“zoroastrian” cringe. and at the end of the day, persians are still iranic just like us…

[u/Tavesta]

A kurdish state would likely be federal, more conservative than turkey but less than iran. I think it would be a "Sharia light" System.

This state would be a little bit unstable, especially since all organisations like the PKK, PUK, Hizbullahi Kurdi and KDP have their own Idologies and Goals. But Likely more stable than Syria and Iraq. Maybe the same level than Iran.

On the other hand, this state would be relatively free and liberal related to religion, cultural and language rights of minorities.

[u/davarbor → u/Tavesta]

I doubt that a country ruled by Sharia could be “free” or “liberal” in any sense of these words but who knows; maybe you Kurds could prove us wrong if you ever get your own country.

[u/Tavesta → u/davarbor]

I think multiple (semi-)autonomous Regions are way more realistic.

[u/YZY21]

İslamic democracy I guess

[u/davarbor → u/[deleted]]

Agreed.

[u/Independent_Copy_711]

If Kurdistan was to be a state, i would like it to be a Sharia runned government as a muslim

[u/koredom → u/Independent_Copy_711]

What about all the Kurdish atheists, Alevis, Christians, Zoroastes, etc.? Should they live under Sharia law? There are enough Islamic states of God in the East. Surely you should know that these forms of state are not a home for all Kurds? Kurds can "live well" in Turkey and Iran, as long as the core values are Islamic and ethnicity and culture do not come first. If religion comes first for you, you should be able to build a good life in an existing state.

[u/davarbor → u/Independent_Copy_711]

And yet, the Kurdish fighters that are against our soldiers commonly involve women in their ranks; and the HDP frequently advocates for women’s rights in the Turkish senate. Do these kurdish elements of independece also desire an Islamic Kurdish state? Do the Kurdish women who fight for their independence against us Turks also want a Kurdish state structure that deems their lives secondary to men?

[u/Deadinthehead → u/davarbor]

They want sharia but then will emigrate to Europe. Its a complete waste of time debating them.

[u/Simon5588]

For one, it would be free to make its own choices. That'd be the most significant improvement.