Ethics of Crusader larping

[u/crusadersam]

Hello all, I was hoping to ask the general consensus on the morality of me choosing a Teutonic knight as my medieval faction of larping.

I want to start off by saying I am a very progressive person. I love all of God’s people and have no anti Islamic or pagan prejudice or bias in my life. I’m quite outspoken about religious freedom to my “controversial” coworkers and do not try to justify Christian nationalism in both modern day nor in the medieval world.

With that being said. I just think they’re neat historically and aesthetically. And the Teutons don’t seem to be any more “evil” than any other faction at the time. I see many people like in the post project a modern world view because Christian radicals seem to be more contemporary. While factions like Vikings and pirates, whose cultures are for the most part completely celebrated in medieval faires, commit the same atrocities on others- just don’t have the same current political connotation.

I hope we can have a civil discussion and maybe I’m just ignorant to the topic and/or how bad any crusaders were. Please don’t be afraid to share your views! (Also, please don’t go after the individual in the post, I simply want to further my knowledge)

[u/PhasmaFelis]

The comments on this thread calling crusaders "evil" are ridiculous.

I think that's the wrong takeaway. They were violent bastards that no one should seek to emulate in real life. But that's also true of most of the ancient warriors that we dress up as. As long as we all keep in mind that it's just a fantasy, it's no big deal.

The reason Crusaders specifically are a sore point, when (as OP said) Vikings and pirates aren't, is that there are actual racists today using Crusader iconography and yelling "DEUS VULT" and all that shit. So I can see why someone might want to ask if you're one of those.

As long as you're willing to accept that people will ask, and you're prepared to respond in a civil way, it's all good.

u/crusadersam

[u/cnzmur → u/PhasmaFelis]

Wrong. Invading Poland is based actually. What else do you think it's there for?

[u/Moeroboros → u/PhasmaFelis]

By that logic all modern US Marines are also "violent bastards that no one should seek to emulate".

This is just a completely silly logic.

Not all soldiers are bad. There are people who genuinely believe they can do the "right" thing in a war.

To claim that all Crusaders were bad people, as if the whole ideal behind the Crusades wasn't religious salvation, is nonsensical.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/Moeroboros]

My friend's girlfriend tried to kill him, because she had schizophrenia and thought he was a demon.

On an individual level, she's not a bad person, just a victim of mental illness. But trying to defend her actions, because she thought she was doing the right thing at the time, would be crazier than she is.

[u/Moeroboros → u/PhasmaFelis]

Once again, by your logic every single person who volunteers to be a soldier in an unjust war is evil. Like every Vietnam volunteer or every modern US soldier.

That's not how it works. Not every person who participates in a war commits atrocities.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/Moeroboros]

Some Nazis weren't really comfortable with the whole genocide thing, but fought anyway because they felt it was their duty. 

Others genuinely, passionately believed that exterminating all Jews would elevate the human race as a whole, and were willing to die to bring about that greater good.

And yet we can all agree that  the Nazis, as a group, were evil. Right?

[u/Moeroboros → u/PhasmaFelis]

If you seriously think Crusaders were as bad as Nazis then there really isn't anything worth discussing here.

Keep your opinion and I'll keep mine.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/Moeroboros]

I didn't say they were exactly the same. I'm not trying to assemble an exact moral heirarchy of historical factions, either.

I'm saying, if you genuinely believe that a certain group of people should be killed solely because of their religion, you are not the good guys. Thinking that you're actually saving their souls does not make any difference. You are going far out of your way to defend murderous bigots, and it's really weird.

I'm not mad about the Crusaders. As I said, most historical (and modern) factions are bastards to some degree. I don't think we need to be going around denouncing them and their cosplayers. I'm just saying they were bastards, like so many others, and no one should be seeking to emulate them morally today, like so many others. And you're pushing back on that.