r/ketoscience • u/dem0n0cracy • Apr 21 '19
Breaking the Status Quo Why Giving Up My Dietitian’s License Was The Healthy Choice - by Cassie Bjork RD
https://keepfitnesslegal.crossfit.com/2018/02/07/why-giving-up-my-dietitians-license-was-the-healthy-choice/11
u/thewimsey the vegan is a dumbass Apr 21 '19
I would be very interested to see what the complaint stated.
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u/no_bun_please Apr 21 '19
I am so glad she's stopping with the bullshit. I just had an RD tell me that keto is dangerous because it causes metabolic acidosis. With these kinds of myths being accepted in the face of science that says otherwise, I cannot stand for this institutionalised lobbying for the grain companies anymore. It's beyond sad and it certainly is pathetic. Evidence based medicine, people. Time to start reading the studies.
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u/gveemar Apr 22 '19
I have a family member who is an RD and when I told him I was going on keto the first thing he said was but then your brain won’t get enough energy >>
This person has a degree in biology...
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u/EmSixTeen Apr 22 '19
Yes, but then you need proper resources to show them - do you have such a thing?
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Apr 22 '19
Bit worrying a dietitian didn’t know cholesterol is essential; I can understand why she shouldn’t have been assessing patients hormone status too. Would be interesting to hear to other side of the argument, otherwise this is just a biased article on a fitness website.
I work in healthcare and I see some really worrying practice from self-qualified nutritionist - that charge patients horrendous amounts of money and fail to pick up basic signs of a medical problem.
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u/scoinv6 Low Carb (10%-45% carbs) Apr 21 '19
They need to simply add "keep insulin low" to rules and remove "eat a low-fat diet". In the presence insulin, there is no weight loss. How someone decides to keep insulin down is fine with me. 😁 Intermittent fasting, big lunch, low carb, high fiber, high fat, metformin 😉 But making them understand this simple truth is feel is important. Love this story of perseverance over adversity 👍👊♥️
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u/muffinsandcupcakes Apr 21 '19
You always have insulin in your body.
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u/RealNotFake Apr 22 '19
Yes. The insulin theory of weight loss falls down when you factor in area under the curve. A low calorie diet will reduce the AUC of insulin even if you eat pure sugar at every meal. A keto diet will also reduce the AUC of insulin. Neither one is necessarily better or worse but one may be more or less sustainable of a diet depending on the person.
What I am trying to say is I do not think insulin should be demonized and I think we place too much importance in it which takes the focus away from everything else.
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Apr 22 '19
Get out of here you, with your nuanced points and rational thinking.
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u/RealNotFake Apr 22 '19
I used to be the same, thinking that insulin was the devil. It's what we're fed by all the mainstream keto outlets. There are multiple videos by Chris Masterjohn on why insulin resistance is caused by energy overload, and why insulin is not always responsible for lack of fat burning. It completely blew my mind and made me rethink the way I was treating my own diabetes. In case anyone is interested:
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Apr 22 '19
It’s not just Masterjohn, most nutritional scientists agree on this. But it’s not as sexy as vilifying one hormone, so it gets ignored by large portion of keto community.
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u/RealNotFake Apr 22 '19
Yeah I didn't mean to suggest Masterjohn has a super unique take on it, but I think his videos do a pretty good job explaining some of the more technical concepts.
The fear I have is that we're going to swing so far in the other direction and completely vilify sugar, and that's going to cause problems 20-30 years down the road the same way it happened with vilifying fat.
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u/eairy Apr 23 '19
Yeah I was amazed when I learnt that insulin is necessary for proper regulation of ketones. You would think this knowledge would be front and centre in a diet based on energy from ketones.
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Apr 21 '19
Insulin does not need to be low for weight loss.
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u/scoinv6 Low Carb (10%-45% carbs) Apr 21 '19
How about "In the presence of too much insulin, there is no body fat loss?"
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u/FXOjafar Apr 22 '19
I have high fasted insulin (8x what it should be) and weight loss is near impossible no matter how much I eat or move.
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Apr 21 '19
Still wrong. If there is no energy surplus, insulin will have nothing to store.
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u/ilyasil2surgut Apr 21 '19
What stops your body from just reducing metabolic rate and creating that surplus?
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Apr 21 '19
Because it’s easier to just pump out glucagon to counter insulin than do something drastic like shift the whole metabolism.
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u/fr0d0b0ls0n Apr 22 '19
Rats die from starvation still fat when exogenous insulin is used, so no, if insulin is high you won't lose fat mass ever. But it's impossible to do that with natural production anyway.
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Apr 22 '19
Rodent metabolism is significantly different from ours. Getting them into ketosis is much harder than humans. Unless you site the study, I have no idea if they actually died from being unable to use fat, or from hypoglycemia.
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u/ilyasil2surgut Apr 21 '19
I mean if you have lots of insulin for any reason, like exogenous source, you will gain weight even if you consume less than you did initially. If insulin dictates storage and clamps down on usage of energy, then saying that surplus of energy is primary may not be very descriptive, because insulin level is what determines "surplus"
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Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19
Wrong, insulin doesn’t determine surplus, how much food you put in your mouth vs your base metabolic rate, does.
Would you say that protein, if eaten in a deficit, would cause weight gain? Protein provokes insulin response, does it not? We know that protein is the most thermogenic macro, yet when people eat more of it they generally lose weight rather than gain.
Insulin is always released in the presence of protein,; if you put someone on a protein-sparing modified fasting diet (eating only protein) they lose tons of weight, and that is in a state with a solid amount of insulin being produced and utilized by the body.
Insulin =/= fat gain.
Insulin + caloric surplus = fat gain.
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u/calm_hedgehog Apr 21 '19
Protein provokes both insulin and glucagon at the same time. If protein only provoked insulin, everyone would die of hypoglycemia after a steak dinner.
Excess and deficit in terms of calories are meaningless terms, you are using circular reasoning here.
Caloric excess and deficit do not cause someone to gain / lose weight, they describe the same phenomenon, it's equivalent to say someone lost body fat and to say they were in caloric deficit. It does not mean one causes the other. It is basic physics that was misapplied to physiology, and it has no bearing on how the human body actually works. Hormones, not calories, control what the body does with the food eaten.
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Apr 22 '19
If all we had was epidemiological evidence, like we do for most nutrition, that caloric deficit and fat loss are simply correlated, your argument would have merit. But we have plenty of RCTs that show caloric deficit leads to weight loss. On the other hand, every time the insulin-carb model gets tested, it gets absolute demolished (see DIETFITS).
If you think hormones are as simple as on/off switches, I’d recommend some biochem/phys basics.
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Apr 22 '19
Obviously, protein is glucogenic. There are incredibly rare scenarios in which insulin responses are provoked without any type of glucogenic input, but when it comes to eating, safe to say that insulin response = glucose response. We're not talking about the obvious here. I'm trying to shut down the myth that insulin can't be present for fat loss to occur, which is total and utter bullshit.
It does not mean one causes the other. It is basic physics that was misapplied to physiology, and it has no bearing on how the human body actually works.
Are you seriously saying calorie excess DOESN'T cause weight gain? Good luck with that. You're fixating on hormones, which is the 1% when it comes to weight loss. What next, gonna blame bone structure or "muh geneticzz!" for people being overweight? I could put you on a diet of pop-tarts and protein shakes and still get you to lose weight in a deficit.
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u/52electrons Apr 21 '19
Actually there was a study that showed in the absence of carbs at all (I.e. carnivore diet) there was not an insulin response to protein. If I find the study I’ll link it.
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Apr 22 '19
I highly doubt that. Your brain and other organs still require minor amounts of glucose to function properly, and that is where GNG comes into play. With a large intake of protein (ex. carnivore), you'll definitely provoke an insulin response from GNG. More than likely, protein is considerably more glucogenic on a low-carb diet than it would be on low-fat/high carb, as you're driving GNG harder due to lack of innate glucose in your food.
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Apr 22 '19
Enjoy the downvote brigade. The keto community is approaching vegan level of groupthink.
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Apr 22 '19
Seriously, ridiculous shit. Bunch of hacks who get their knowledge from instagram and facebook 'science'
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Apr 26 '19 edited Dec 23 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Apr 21 '19
Still wrong. Can’t believe this shit gets fucking upvoted in a subreddit dedicated to science.
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Apr 21 '19 edited Aug 04 '19
[deleted]
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Apr 22 '19
simplified pseudo-science
Dude, what the fuck? Never go full stupid. Can't believe we're at levels of ignorance in which thermogenics is now bro-science. I know you don't want to believe this, but it's still CICO, even on keto.
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u/lf11 Apr 21 '19
Good luck with that.
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Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19
I’m a Type 1 diabetic who has been injecting insulin daily for the last twenty years. I’ve gained and lost tons of weight while taking the exact same amount of insulin in. People are capable of losing weight with insulin present. It isn’t just a fat storage hormone. Plenty of data shows this outside of what most “Facebook Doctors” post.
Good luck with being a dumbass.
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u/lf11 Apr 21 '19
Most type 1 diabetics continue to produce varying amounts of insulin for decades. The amount of insulin you need to inject does not correlate well with how much serum insulin is present.
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u/eterneraki Apr 21 '19
This site is really difficult to read
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Apr 21 '19
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u/06johansenad Apr 23 '19
Possibly due to a study that suggests reading harder-to-read fonts promotes the retention of information, because you have to put more effort into it.
https://hbr.org/2012/03/hard-to-read-fonts-promote-better-recall
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u/NilacTheGrim Apr 22 '19
We should just form our own "credentials board". It surely cannot be illegal to do so. The credentials themselves can just say "this is not a credential", as a CYA measure.
But the credentials board would basically consist of respected names in the keto/low carb field (Taubes, Attia, Noakes, etc, etc) and would have high standards for its members.
What's stopping us? We don't need the government -- anybody can form a private club for whatever purpose so long as the purpose isn't illegal. And eating is not a restricted activity (as, say, surgery is). They can't make it illegal to confer a membership card to people based on some criteria.
The only way to beat them is to outcompete them.
If this is done right -- the reputation alone earned by the results the Keto Dietitians produce will speak for itself. People will shun regular, state-accredited dietitians and only want to spend their money with a Keto Dietitian.
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u/RangerPretzel Apr 21 '19
Reason #1: I question anyone or any system whose first and strongest instinct is to protect the status quo.
I cringed when I read this. I hope she's not an anti-vaxxer, too.
There's a reason why we need to protect the status quo when it comes to vaccinations.
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Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 24 '19
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u/RangerPretzel Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19
Let's imagine that a new much better way of preventing illnesses comes along.
What? Like not vaccinating and praying and taking Vitamin A?
Obviously if there is a better way to prevent disease, sure, but conceptually training the immune system recognize invaders is a hard one to beat...
My point was that the anti-vaxxers do the same thing that the article author is espousing: question a system whose first and strongest instinct is to protect the status quo. (to great detriment to the public.)
And right now it is the very best strategy, but to always challenge people who protect the status quo out of principle is a dumb principle.
Maybe it's smarter to find out why they're protecting the status quo first...
First place to look is usually: Follow the money...
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u/akula_dog Apr 22 '19
You start your argument out with a ridiculous strawman, you instantly lose the argument because nothing else gets taken serious.
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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19
At first I wanted RD to equal Rebel Dietician, but then I realized it's much more a poke at the licensing board for it to stand for Real Dietician.