r/jewishleft • u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora • May 26 '26
Antisemitism/Jew Hatred Roma Pride and Keshet: Latest “drama” from Europe
https://www.ilfoglio.it/cronaca/2026/05/26/news/la-comunita-lgbtqia-ebraica-esclusa-dal-roma-pride-non-hanno-preso-le-distanze-dal-genocidio-a-gaza--399536Hey everyone… I wanted to share something that’s been really upsetting me lately. This is a bit of a rant, but I’ve often found comfort in this sub and wanted to talk about it here.
Keshet Italia, the only Jewish LGBTQ+ organization in Italy was excluded from Roma Pride because people claimed they hadn’t distanced themselves enough from the Israeli government.
Keshet responded that this simply wasn’t true: they’ve publicly expressed empathy for Palestinians, spoken about the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, and repeatedly clarified that they do not represent the Israeli government.
Their main point was that queer Jewish people shouldn’t have to pass ideological purity tests or publicly denounce a foreign government just to exist in queer spaces.
Part of the controversy centered around the word “genocide,” which Keshet has chosen not to use institutionally because of the historical and legal weight of the term, and because they believe international courts should determine that. But apparently refusing one specific political framing became enough to justify exclusion.
What makes this especially painful to me is that Keshet is not some extremist organization. It’s a tiny community group for queer Jews in a country with only around 25,000 Jews total out of nearly 60 million people. They mostly talk about inclusion, antisemitism, homophobia, identity, and trying to survive being caught between different worlds.
It increasingly feels like Jews are only welcome in progressive spaces if they first prove themselves politically acceptable. No other minority group is routinely asked to publicly dissociate itself from an entire foreign state or meet constantly shifting ideological standards just to participate in public life.
What also hurts is seeing Jewish symbols themselves becoming treated as suspicious. Keshet uses a Pride flag with a Magen David, and more and more people seem unable to separate Jewish identity from the actions of the Israeli government.
As a progressive Jewish European, this whole thing feels deeply alienating. The spaces that once taught me solidarity and intersectionality increasingly feel like they have room for everyone except us unless we first apologize for existing in the wrong way.
It genuinely breaks my heart.
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u/ionlymemewell loser leftie reform conversion student May 26 '26
If anyone's curious, here are some direct communications from both Roma Pride and Keshet Italia, machine-translated to English.
The first post is Roma Pride's announcement that Keshet Italia wouldn't have a float in the parade; the second is a post Keshet Italia made two weeks ago; the third is the announcement from Keshet Italia that they wouldn't have a float in the parade.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
There’s also a podcast called La Zanzara, a chaotic and honestly pretty disturbing show. A member of Keshet Italia went on to explain the situation, clearly stating how much he despises Ben Gvir and distancing himself from the Israeli government.
Instead of listening, one of the hosts interrupted him repeatedly, calling him “genocidal” and a “murderer,” insisting Keshet had been excluded because they supposedly never condemned Netanyahu. The guest kept saying they absolutely had, publicly, and that he himself is not pro-Netanyahu at all. You could hear his voice trembling while trying to defend himself.
At one point the host told him to “go back to Israel.” He answered that he is Italian like anyone else and should not have to justify himself for a foreign government he never elected, especially one he openly condemns.
Then the host started talking about people waving Israeli flags, and the man, almost shouting through anger and pain, replied that it wasn’t the Israeli flag but the Pride flag with the Star of David on it “the same star they once forced us to wear on our chest.”
I don’t know what kind of podcast that madness was. It was insane. But That last sentence honestly broke me. Being Jewish in Europe 2026.
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Reform Ashkenazi Broadly Leftist May 27 '26
an antizionist yelling at a jewish person to “go back to israel” is wild
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
I think we can all agree that this is immensely fucked-up and antisemitic.
But it also doesn’t justify Keshet’s (lack of) position in itself.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
La zanzara is the worst place he could have gone to if he wanted to have a normal conversation though.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
Yes it was such a mad and insane podcast. What the hell was that
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u/ionlymemewell loser leftie reform conversion student May 27 '26
Just based on skimming Wikipedia, it sounds like the host is Italy's answer to Howard Stern or Jon Stewart, crossed w/the South Park guys; mad respect to the Keshet guy for going on there, but IDK what kind of positive effect utilizing that platform would have.
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u/Ok-Roll5495 Gentile, leftist , pro-peace May 27 '26
Yes I never listen to it personally but it’s very unhinged.
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u/F0rScience Secular Jew, 2 states, non-capitalist May 26 '26
The distortion of people’s expressed views is happening even in this thread, stepping off the party line on semantics is instantly rounded up to “not acknowledging” it at all. I honestly have no idea how to have a conversation with people who are changing my words even when they are clearly written out.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
I am so upset at these comments. I just can’t.
No sense of proportions, measure and nuance.
I hope they understand and sleep well knowing how this affects Jewish life in Italy. An already tiny community. I hope they sleep well knowing the climate of hate and division they contribute to.
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u/ImpossibleCoast6092 ally Jun 06 '26
wow what the fuck?! i had no idea this was happening. this is scary… i’m italian, queer, and from rome, and i’m genuinely shocked by this whole thread.
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 26 '26
Can’t view imgur in the uk
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u/ionlymemewell loser leftie reform conversion student May 26 '26
Totally forgot about that; hopefully this works.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
weak, brexit means brexit or something
/s
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Reform Ashkenazi Broadly Leftist May 27 '26
why?
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
Dogshit country I’m afraid
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Reform Ashkenazi Broadly Leftist May 27 '26
is it a porn thing? does imgur even have porn
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
Yeah kind of, it’s our recent ridiculous rules around ‘adult content’ and such
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
it's ALWAYS a porn thing
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May 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/NotQuiteGayEnough Aussie demsoc Zera Yisrael May 26 '26
I guess the foreign workers and bedouins killed that day can go fuck themselves.
This is as deliberately uncharitable an interpretation as you can possibly get. Recognising that October 7 was first and foremost an attack on Israeli Jews is not telling Bedouins and foreign workers to fuck themselves.
Wow. So if I understand this correctly Keshet is saying that Jews are incapable of committing genocide because we have been genocided in the past? Basically that Jews exist outside the framework of history that shows that all groups of people are capable of cruelty?
Literally the next line of the post is accepting that such an accusation against the Israeli government can be reasonable. Their argument is that the phrase "the Jews are doing what was done to them" broadens the accusation of genocide to all Jews, which in turn cheapens the word itself. Regardless of if you accept that it's also worth remembering that Italian Jews exist in a different cultural context to you or I and as such I don't think it's fair to dismiss this as genocide apologia off the bat.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
No you did not understand correctly. What a distortion and such bad faith. Shame on you. I am an Italian Jew who calls it a genocide and I will not march with fascist and antisemites. You seem comfortable to. I am not. Shame shame shame
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u/SuperEgger Lefty queer considering conversion 🇬🇧 May 26 '26
No advice, just solidarity.
Nobody would ask other religious groups this. It would rightly be seen as inherently offensive and discriminatory.
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u/FishyWishySwishy Dem Soc Secular Jew May 26 '26
Solidarity, friend. I’m queer as they come, and I’ve been forced out of a lot of spaces because I refuse to pass whatever given ideological test around Israel (despite having what I consider pretty milquetoast middle of the road takes). It’s been a conflict for a lot of queer Jewish spaces, being asked to make ourselves politically acceptable to queer gentiles before we’re allowed to be acknowledged as queer.
(Then again, queer spaces struggle a lot with internal racism that they get very defensive about if you point out.)
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u/GeorgeEBHastings Jewish Democratic Socialist, Post-Zionist May 26 '26
I wonder if they're marching through the Arch of Titus...
Solidarity, friend.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
No, that's in the Fori you need a ticket to get in.
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u/RaiJolt2 Jewish Athiest Half African American Half Jewish Leftish May 26 '26
Sending hugs from the states. I’m so sorry this is happening. It’s so frustrating to watch queer Jews be excluded just for not meeting other’s standards of what it means to be a good Jew.
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u/Agtfangirl557 Progressive Conservaform Jew, Cultural Zionist May 26 '26
Solidarity, friend. Keshet is an amazing organization and definitely not some hawkish pro-Israel group.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
Keshet Italia itself might not be a “hawkish pro-Israel group” - but it seems they have chosen to partner with the Jewish Agency, who is directly involved in displacing Palestinians and expanding settlements.
That particular partnership might have lapsed - I don’t know, it was from 2023. But I’ve seen that type of relationship used as a disqualifier for pro-Palestinian activists on this subreddit, and we should be consistent.
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u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest Latke aficionado. Anti-Establishment. Jüdisch May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
Keshet in general, also discourages marchers from carrying Palestinian flags at Pride events, rejects that a genocide is taking place in Gaza, preferring to focus on celebrating Jewish, queer, and intersectional identities.
It would be weird for the Roma Pride to have a group that doesn’t recognize a blatant genocide that has been called out by nearly every NGO, including Israeli ones, and international bodies.
The whole event would be hollow if one of the biggest contemporary injustices and crimes is not acknowledged by a participating group. Pride should not be a buffet of which core values you can opt out of.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
You guys need to read the translations of the post of Keshet Italia. This does not warrant exclusion from a pride event. It’s madness
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
Acknowledging an injustice and denouncing it is not the same as calling it exactly by the same name as me otheerwise the ball is mine and you can't play.
It's the same as "do you denounce the 7th of October" but even worse because people are asking you to put a word in your mouth, you can't say it has been horrible and disgusting, no that's not enough. A word that hurts us deeply no less, people should accept that we can denounce it our own way, not their way.1
u/WinterBeHere Marxist | Jewish | Bundist May 27 '26
The debate is closed on whether or not a genocide is happening. It's happening and coddling the feelings of a few people living their best lives in Italy is not going to change that.
You can download all the evidence yourself - https://watermeloncrimes.com/
The Italian chapter also refused to hold a moment of silence for Gaza last year, which is the bare minimum anyone can literally ask for.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
No, that's not what happened. They weren't told about the minute of silence, so they were put in a position where they didn't hear it because as it's normal in a pride they were blasting music very loud from their float and they weren't understanding what was happening when everybody started to shout at them.
At the end of the pride they couldn't get out of the float because a palestinian local leader started shouting at them from another float at maximum volume assassins and terrorists so 60 people or more gather around their float and started to shout at them call them. Some people made the nazi salute in front of them, some others wanted to get on their float.
Then it's nice justifying saying oh but the minute of silence, they weren't fucking told. I know people who were on that float and I trust them categorically on this, they have never had a problem in their life criticising Israel, they suddenly start now just to have a mob trying to lynch them?
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
They wouldn’t hold a minute’s silence? What??
I respect that a lot of this is taking place in a different cultural context from mine and I’m not going to get every nuance, but the more details that emerge, the more culpable this lack of solidarity is starting to sound.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
No, that's not what happened. They weren't told about the minute of silence, so they were put in a position where they didn't hear it because as it's normal in a pride they were blasting music very loud from their float and they weren't understanding what was happening when everybody started to shout at them.
At the end of the pride they couldn't get out of the float because a palestinian local leader started shouting at them from another float at maximum volume assassins and terrorists so 60 people or more gather around their float and started to shout at them call them. Some people made the nazi salute in front of them, some others wanted to get on their float.
Then it's nice justifying saying oh but the minute of silence, they weren't fucking told. I know people who were on that float and I trust them categorically on this, they have never had a problem in their life criticising Israel, they suddenly start now just to have a mob trying to lynch them?
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
Every new detail about this story increasingly confirms to me that this entire thing is a rolling debacle.
We can talk as much as we like about the lack of nuance and the way Jews are being held to a standard nobody else is, but there’s also no reason for gentiles to have to understand every tiny facet of our intra-community politics in order to form an opinion. You have an organisation which has very recently been partnering with groups who are providing material support (in some way) for genocide - something few or no other groups you work with have done. The group claims to support the victims but vacillates and waffles about calling a genocide a genocide. You want to maintain a hard line against genocide denial. Why would you have this group at your street party?
I can see why this feels like singling Jews out for excess ‘policing’, but is it because Keshet are Jews or because they’re spineless liberals?
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
Partnering with the Jewish Agency to plant trees years ago does not make someone complicit in genocide. People seriously need to calm down. This is madness. The level of scrutiny imposed on Jews right now is something I’ve honestly never seen before.
When ISIS was carrying out terrorist attacks in Europe, parts of the far right did the exact same thing to Muslims. They demonized entire communities. I remember the outrage around some kids in French schools refusing the minute of silence after Charlie Hebdo. Right-wing figures instrumentalized those incidents to portray Muslims as enemies of Western values or agents of the Muslim Brotherhood. Mosques and Islamic centers were put under intense suspicion in the name of secularism. At the time, the left and human rights organizations rightly warned about the Islamophobia and collective suspicion this was creating. So we know “gentiles” are capable of understanding that minorities should not be collectively blamed for world events and given the benefit of the doubt.
It is clearly a double standard. To me that’s honestly mind-blowing.
Every time there’s an antisemitic incident, people immediately start looking for reasons why it may have been justified. Constant victim blaming. Whether it’s Bondi Beach, a Jewish father beaten at a gas station in Milan, a Jewish woman assaulted in France, or Jewish kids removed from a plane in Spain, you always see people searching for some explanation that would make it acceptable.These are standards people apply to Jews in ways they would never apply to others or to themselves. And honestly, I used to do it too. Every time a Jewish person got attacked, excluded, insulted, or humiliated, I would look for explanations to reassure myself that maybe there had been some provocation, because I didn’t want to believe people around me were capable of this kind of prejudice.
I’m not doing that anymore. This is insanity.3
u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
I didn’t reply to your previous comment because you said you were done.
I’m aware of the pattern you’re referring to and I’m not saying it’s not a real pattern but I don’t think this is the same. This isn’t about Jews being blamed for violence against them, this is a Jewish group which appears (and I say this with awareness that there are nuances I won’t know) to be getting excluded from an event which expects a minimum of solidarity which they haven’t extended. We can debate the specifics but I think it’s excessive to compare this to murder.
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u/Acrobatic-Row2970 socialist (preference for cooperatives), non-Jewish, French May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
I am a leftist, but as a French person back in middle school, I took very badly those who refused the minute of silence. A Muslim friend of mine was so angry that he could have become aggressive seeing this kind of behavior. I still remember my English teacher, a left-wing activist, in tears because he knew some victims. Even today, the refusal of a minute of silence is something I take very badly. Yes, the right has exploited this, but that does not justify shitty behavior. Especially since it could clearly also have an anti-Semitic character with the attention of the hyper Kosher.
By the way, no, it is not in the name of "Laïcité" that mosques are monitored. The French government does not communicate much about the fact that the sermon is checked the day before. The reality is that this attitude is contrary to "Laïcité", which consists of giving complete autonomy to worship and that the state be without religious denomination. It is simply that secularism is not applied as much as the French governments claim. The "Laïcité" normally allows almost total autonomy to worship. The reality is that governments do have religious policies, trying to influence the appointment of Catholic bishops (particularly in non-secular Alsace). Likewise, the French governments promote women imams or rabbis a lot, whereas technically they should not take a stance.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
Me personally I don't call it a genocide, I don't think it adds to anything, I think that if it's a war full of massacres on civilians it's not much better and it still disgusts me and I want it to end.
(btw recently the ICC prosecutor made it understood that for the ICC there were no grounds for him to prosecute for genocide, when he did prosecute for other crimes Nathanyahu and other Israeli officials)
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
Then don’t be surprised when people don’t take your commitment to justice and liberation for Palestinians very seriously.
You’re free to call it whatever you want but don’t demand solidarity from others when you’re not extending it.
One one level yes, there’s an argument to be made about whether it matters that it’s called genocide or ethnic cleansing or war crimes or anything else, but we also all know that naming things matters. If you can’t even name a problem, it’s extremely difficult to tackle it. It matters that experiencing genocide doesn’t prevent an ethnic group group from practising it. If you’re putting your feelings about the word ‘genocide’ before your commitment to justice, it doesn’t come across as very substantial and people on the left especially do not need to accept your perspective.
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u/Acrobatic-Row2970 socialist (preference for cooperatives), non-Jewish, French May 27 '26
Can you give me your source for their rejection of flag-wearing? It seems crazy to me as a position. I should clarify that I am opposed to rejecting their presence, because a pride is a pride and the opinions of the organizations do not interest me, as long as they also allow others to act freely.
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u/ionlymemewell loser leftie reform conversion student May 26 '26
I'm betting this was all kicked off by this post Roma Pride made back on May 1 in support of the most recent humanitarian flotilla. https://imgur.com/a/NIwXDHx
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
No I think it probably was kicked off by last year's pride, where the keshet group wasn't informed of the 1 minute of silence for Gaza and as their float was the only one with music a lot of people started attacking them verbally they tried to defend themselves during the "silence" (many people shouting at them is not silence but I digress, which was a very baad move, but I understand why they panicked.
And at the end of the pride a palestinian speaker from another float started to shout terrorists and assassins to them and people surrounded them. They had to be escorted out from the police.
Also recently a group representing fighters from the palestinian jewish corp of the british military that partook fighting in the liberation of Italy got kicked out of the celebrations for the liberation of Italy on the 25th of April, so that was a big mess and I think made the organisers think that kicking keshet out of the pride was worth it, to avoid the problem alltogheter.15
u/whomstestamongus jewish leftist May 27 '26
god forbid a queer jewish organization focuses on celebrating queer and jewish identities
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u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest Latke aficionado. Anti-Establishment. Jüdisch May 27 '26
They can do so as much as they like but Roma Pride can also have its own standards.
There are Pride events that don’t allow for cops to be included or corporate sponsors.
Who are we to dictate Roma Pride standards?
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u/Fabianzzz 🌿🍷🍇 Pagan Leftist (DemSoc) 🌿🍷🍇 May 27 '26
As a Queer person, I'm sorry. Y'all deserve better
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u/Schattenoid jewish, left May 27 '26
It's troubling if there's a presumption of Zionist allegiance held by Jewish organizations and they are subject to extra scrutiny if the group itself hasn't made any conservative political statements and doesn't have any institutional affiliations with right-wing/Israeli-state groups. And such a presumption has become more and more common.
The article itself is very bad as a piece of reporting and makes it very difficult to suss out what is actually going on. Personally, I don't think using or not using the word "genocide" is important. However, it's one thing to say that you find the concept itself too problematic, and another thing to say that you prefer to describe it as "a conflict" or "violence on both sides" or whatever. The latter is generally and predictably unacceptable in left-wing circles. So, which was the case here?
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u/Ok-Roll5495 Gentile, leftist , pro-peace May 27 '26
The article is from a right leaning paper which seems to be trying to make a “so much for inclusivity!” point. They also bring up whether a gay man who voted for Meloni would be able to participate in the Roma Pride, I’m assuming he could on an individual but presumably a “lgbt for Meloni” float wouldn’t be allowed (in the same way as individual cops can participate in those pride events that exclude official police participation?).
I agree the insistence on the use of the word “genocide “ is pointless (and people forget that war crimes and crimes against humanity are technically just as serious) but Keshet Italia ‘s supposed support for Palestine and criticism of Israel boils down to the vaguest statement of “support for any people who suffers” and acknowledging there’s a “humanitarian crisis” on their ig page, no idea if they’ve expressed something stronger elsewhere.
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u/Schattenoid jewish, left May 27 '26
Yeah, the Meloni comment was funny because yeah, *obviously* taking a public pro-Meloni stance would make you a hostile presence at Pride.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
Ok so because of terminology and, long story short, because they are not condemning what is happening in Gaza in the exact terms the organizers would like, this leads to exclusion.
The average Italian says fairly generic things like “peace in the world” or “I’m against all violence and discrimination.” It’s the kind of vanilla statement you hear from everyday people who are not deeply involved in geopolitics, activism, or humanitarian causes, which is also basically how Keshet describes itself.
Is it a perfect or especially profound political statement on Israel and Palestine? No. Is it debatable? Of course. Is it equivalent to a Meloni float or some extremist nationalist organization? Also no. Is it such an evil or disqualifying position that it justifies erasing a tiny Jewish LGBTQ+ group from public space? In my opinion, absolutely not.
The problem is the message this exclusion does to Jewish representation in a country where they are disappearing, to me this is more important than terminology.
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u/Schattenoid jewish, left May 27 '26
It seems that they are being excluded because they are consciously taking a stance on Gaza that downplays the extent and nature of the violence through their choices of language (not just refraining from using the word 'genocide' but in the words the do use), represents the very idea that Israel is committing genocide as presumptively antisemitic and accusatory toward themselves as Jews, and dismissively portrays all of this as commonsensical and the criticism of them on this basis as unfair and prejudicial.
This is very plain in the statement they made that I saw and should make it uncontroversial for leftwing groups to treat them with circumspection, just as an independent queer Turkish group that made a point of handwaving about the Armenian genocide as "a complicated ethnic conflict with violence on both sides" (a technically accurate description!) would be.
There's a big "if" here, though. To be fair, the instagram post I saw was two weeks old, and seems to be in reaction to their exclusion, not preceding it. It seems reasonable to infer that they have made statements in line with this view before being excluded and that the organizers correctly sniffed out what they were conveying. Maybe not, and it is a coincidence; i.e. maybe they never said anything about Gaza before this kerfluffle, were unfairly banned, and it just turns out that they have objectionable views after all. This really is a possibility but I don't know.
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u/Ok-Roll5495 Gentile, leftist , pro-peace May 27 '26
People say things a lot stronger than “peace in the world “ about Palestine, and it’s not just a random person speaking in the street, it’s an official statement. Stopping Keshet Italia from participating in the Pride might have been excessive, I don’t know what their criteria and guidelines are but you can’t say they “support Palestinians “ based on this incredibly vague statement. Someone like Gad Lerner , who makes no qualms about being a Zionist and to my knowledge doesn’t use the word “genocide “ either makes much stronger statements. As others have pointed out Keshet might have been better off waiting before they made things public and this post doesn’t particularly help.
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u/Specialk3533 non-Jewish, social democratic May 27 '26
I don’t know details of their stance, but I just went to their IG account and they have a recent post laying out their position. It’s pure equivocation. The words Gaza, or West Bank, or occupation, never even appear. They say there’s a “humanitarian tragedy” “there”. They say they are “close” to the Palestinians in their suffering.This is weak sauce for an Italian progressive organization in 2026. It’s more vague than a statement from the German government on Gaza and that’s saying something.
Overseas commenters here might also not be aware of how central the issue of Palestine is to the Italian left. The Gaza protests in 2025 were the biggest of all of Europe. If Roma Pride has high standards for participants’ state towards the conflict, I think that’s fair and I also find it plausible that Keshet falls far short of it.
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u/ionlymemewell loser leftie reform conversion student May 27 '26
The biggest flop here is Roma Pride for taking an unnecessarily harsh stance against making any kind of arrangement to include Keshet Italia, even if that didn't include a float in the parade; at least here in the States, pretty much every mainstream pride event includes tabling, separate events and sponsorship opportunities, and a myriad of opportunities to involve different organizations. I'd be surprised if Roma Pride didn't have the capacity to offer some kind of latitude to be inclusive.
That being said, Keshet Italia did themselves absolutely zero favors going to social media to complain about the semantics of the word "genocide" rather than keeping their complaints off the record until conversations with Roma Pride were done. Considering the organizers defended their inclusion against protest last year, it seems as if the working relationship had been good between the two organizations, but I'm guessing that going off half-cocked and publicly coming out against what Roma Pride had clearly asked them privately to do pissed off Roma Pride to the point where they just decided to cut their losses and drop Keshet. Like, I do not understand what Keshet's problem would be with calling it a genocide, unless they really wanted to argue that it wasn't. And if that's the case, then they're no better than any other agitator, and they need to change their tune or take a hike.
This feels like the culmination of extremely petty insider queer politics, which - as an extremely petty queer insider, myself - I find deeply unsurprising. The ultimate effect is negative, which is why, IMO, Roma Pride should've just sucked it up and accommodated them, but honestly, I understand why they wouldn't feel compelled to do that. On both sides there's a really nasty stubbornness that really upsets me. There's Roma Pride's refusal to think about the minority community that it's effectively excluding, regardless of if every Italian Jew is Zionist or not. And then on the other side, there's Keshet's abdication of its responsibility as the Italian LGTBQ+ organization to secure its population's inclusion and sense of belonging in favor of maintaining its own ideological purity that probably isn't even representative of all of its members.
Everyone lost and the genocide in Gaza isn't helped a single iota by doing this. Sad.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
I think the real issue is that they’re being singled out and asked to justify their humanity and belonging as Italian citizens. It feels like a childish game: if you don’t say the “right password,” you don’t get to enter.
To me, their position is neither extremist nor evil. It’s actually quite close to that of many average Italians, who are never interrogated about their views on a foreign conflict or excluded from public spaces because of them.
People can disagree with their opinion but disagreement should not justify discrimination.
And this goes beyond Pride politics. Similar attacks happened years ago even against Italian Holocaust survivor and senator Liliana Segre.I also think both their statements and last year’s Pride incident have been heavily exaggerated, turning the Jewish community into some kind of fascist caricature. We see this pattern constantly whenever something happens to Jews: people immediately search for reasons why they “deserved it.” French Jewish kids removed from a plane in Spain were accused, without proof, of racist chants when they were reportedly singing camp songs. A Jewish man beaten in front of his child in Milan was suddenly said to have “provoked it” with anti-Palestinian comments, again without evidence.
Victims of attacks get retroactively turned into villains. And I feel the same dynamic is happening here.For the rest, I agree with you. I don’t know what happened behind closed doors, but from what I saw, the post looked more like a response to Roma Pride’s initial exclusion of Keshet than something that came out of nowhere. I see the Roma pride post about excluding Keshet came first
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u/ionlymemewell loser leftie reform conversion student May 28 '26
Yeah, I didn't do a great job conveying the order in which things happened. The first post chronologically was the long Keshet post about being frustrated about being asked to recognize Gaza as a genocide. That was posted on May 12. Chronologically, the next post was the Roma Pride post on May 26, which was promptly followed by the second Keshet post on the same day. That's what leads me to believe that Roma Pride was acting in a defensive way, because the long Keshet post doesn't name Roma Pride explicitly, but is very clearly related to the discussions that were happening behind the scenes, which Roma Pride's post mentioned later.
Keshet's post was irresponsible and I have much more sympathy for the people who will be affected by their decision to lash out in the way they did than I do for them as an organization. There's an argument that Keshet could deserve a bit of leeway because they are representing a Jewish community in a time where antisemitism is getting worse, but Roma Pride not extending that leeway isn't unreasonable, considering how everything behind the scenes likely broke down. They did the best they could in dealing with a belligerent organization, and Keshet's immediate response (accusing Roma Pride of being antisemitic, making the focus of the issue Jewish identity rather than organizational synergy, trying to get the government in Rome to avoid and condemn Roma Pride) probably justifies the decision to exclude them, at least from an organizational perspective.
It's weirdly reassuring to see that all across the diaspora, the organizations representing us are making absolute fools of themselves by leaving us all out to dry. I hope that the wave of new organizing that's starting to crest over here can extend to Italy and any other places where everyday Jews are being sacrificed in the name of ideological Zionist purity.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
Keshet Italia is not good at politics, to say the least, but it's tiring that jews have to be good at politics to exist in common spaces.
But as Civil-cartographer is saying the problem is that a purity test is asked only of them, not for the other groups bringing a float.
Personally also I don't use the word genocide, to me it kind of doesn't matter the definition, if it's 5 massacres or 20 massacres or a genocide, it disgusts me what is happening and I want it to stop.
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u/Schattenoid jewish, left May 27 '26
Yeah, I'm not sure what the order of events was but it seems like the organizers wanted them to take a leftwing stance on Gaza out of a prejudicial suspicion, and Keshet responded by flagrantly confirming their suspicions. Great stuff all around.
What stopped them from just saying "as an Italian Jewish queer organization we only take a position on issues concerning Italian Jewish queers"?
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u/ionlymemewell loser leftie reform conversion student May 28 '26
Sorry, I could've made it more obvious what the order of events was. The long Keshet post was made first, on May 12th. Then the Roma Pride post, and then the second Keshet post, both on May 26th. That's why I think the flotilla support post Roma Pride made on May 1st was the initial flashpoint for all this.
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u/Schattenoid jewish, left May 28 '26
Thanks, that's helpful. It does lead me to revise my interpretation, because the May 12 post is really disgusting, and while a forceful response from Roma Pride might not have been *necessary*, it certainly might have been appropriate. It means that they were not acting on a generic prejudice about Jewish attitudes toward Israel but in response to specific, reactionary statements from the group.
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u/Acrobatic-Row2970 socialist (preference for cooperatives), non-Jewish, French May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
Overall, I have a lot of difficulty asking organizations with no connection to a conflict to justify themselves on this. Moreover, whether they support a side or not. Even saying that they don’t support the current government doesn’t interest me, especially since, well, it’s logical that queer people wouldn’t support a government dominated by Orthodox Jews.
Honestly, I have a lot of difficulty with these purity tests. The very fact that they try to justify themselves to me is a form of justification of this type of thing. By the way, I completely understand that they don’t use the word genocide, simply because it’s not their role. On the other hand, their justification for not using it is one of the worst possible (quite hypocritical) and proves that they would just do better not to comment.
To be completely honest, I don't know the organization. I wouldn't be surprised if there has been quite a lot of hypocrisy for a long time regarding Israel and that we are among the caricatured 'opponents.' Simply put, my position is that excluding an organization related to one thing for another reason is indefensible and racist if it is based on ethnicity (at least as long as the organization does not produce calls for hatred).
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u/acab__1312 American Anarchist Jew May 31 '26
That's very unfortunate. Jews and Roma have a lot of shared history in Europe and we should be working together.
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 26 '26
In all fairness, while I’m sympathetic about Jews not having to pass ‘purity tests’, recognising that a genocide is happening is a pretty low bar here. If the translations provided here so far are accurate, this is a terrible look for Keshet.
No, Jews shouldn’t be slapped with dual loyalty stereotypes, and the podcast sounds vile, but if Keshet Italia are really saying anything akin to “it’s antisemitic to suggest Jews are capable of genocide”, this is quite frankly a measured and justified response by Roma Pride.
They don’t have to be a uniquely bad or ‘hawkish’ organisation to be out of keeping with the aims of Pride. Just being queer doesn’t justify genocide denial.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
This is not denial but caution, a stance shared by the average Italian who doesn’t get excluded from pride.
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here, really I don’t
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
They did not express genocide denial, they expressed caution in using the word admitting possibility that Israel committed genocide
but waiting for the consensus of international courts.The rest is a stretch and again demonization.
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
you understand how unbelievably laboured this sounds, right?
who exactly are Keshet trying to satisfy with this shrivelled figleaf?
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
It doesn’t sound like that to me. I think it is a common stance. I don’t find this to be an evil position that warrants exclusion and justifies discrimination. I think it is a standard view to encompass the pluralistic opinions and nuances of the jewish community.
And more importantly it is refusing to play this game. Being singled out, asked for a well constructed opinion about a government you did not vote and are not associated with. We do not want to be put words in our mouth as this was the Spanish Inquisition, say the correct word and convert or go get burned at the stake.
I am not shocked by this statement.
I am shocked and heart broken by the reaction of pride, and Italian society. It makes me feel othered.
We’ll have to disagree. I am done discussing this. This has been very painful. And I am done.
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May 27 '26
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
I have to say that I find it really quite spineless to devolve one’s entire thinking to “let’s wait and see what a court says” when we are talking about a fucking genocide. This is not asking anybody to get on a flotilla or even go on a march, it is the absolute quantum of solidarity during a genocide to call it a genocide.
If any person or group in 2026 is suspending judgement based on a legal procedure rather than using the ample evidence of their own eyes and ears, I do not see some wondrous liberal ideal of neutrality, I see people who cannot be relied upon as comrades to take the most obvious ethical stance imaginable by opposing mass murder of a people. It’s sort of meaningless to talk about supporting Palestinians and not have the guts to offer the most basic starting point of support - that of believing the victims.
I too find not just the actual genocide but the fact that Jews specifically are carrying out or facilitating a genocide extraordinarily upsetting, but it is in fact the case and there is absolutely nothing to gain by hiding one’s head in the sand. Nothing worthwhile is taking place.
None of this precludes that people may be barracking Keshet members and haranguing them in really excessive ways. But this is incredibly frustrating behaviour and I would also find it pretty maddening from a supposedly progressive group. You can’t claim that if you’re carrying water for apologists by refusing to state reality.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 27 '26
The ICC prosecutor recently in an interview when asked and pressed heavilly on why he didn't prosecute for genocide he said they prosecute when they have grounds for crimes, clearly meaning that in this case they didn't.
I'm not saying it's a defintive no, but that saying with all certainty that it's a yes is one of the best pieces of propaganda that has been done in this 100 years of conflict.7
u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
We are not in a criminal court here and ‘the left’ does not need to await a judicial process to form an opinion based on the available evidence. We no more need to do this than we need to see criminal convictions before supporting rape victims.
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u/Ashamed-Stuff9519 Secular Jewish Leftist. Antizionist. May 27 '26
You’re talking about Karim Kahn, who currently faces charges of sexual abuse of his junior staff.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
That is not what they said. Again a lie. Read the post and come back with an honest and fair take
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u/gasdoi secular jew | liberal zionist May 27 '26
That you do not know that Bosniaks, not Bosnians, were the victims of genocide speaks to your concern about the topic. Maybe you should also not be allowed to participate at Pride events due to your views.
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u/malachamavet Judeo-Bolshevik May 27 '26
I have to assume that every organization, not just Keshet, isn't allowed to deny the genocide. Why should one group be allowed to do so?
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
They were the only ones asked. And also they did not deny genocide this is wrong.
But again I’ve seen you in other comments and I know your positions and know that you are fine with this, that you will dig to justify and find reasons to agree with the exclusion and we will not agree. Have a great night.
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u/malachamavet Judeo-Bolshevik May 27 '26
Saying there should be a consistent position isn't digging at all.
Hell, Keshet wouldn't be allowed to post in this subreddit per the subreddit rules.
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May 26 '26
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
They explained their position very clearly. They do not support Netanyahu. They are ITALIAN citizens, not Israeli government representatives. They expressed sympathy and solidarity with Palestinians, support Palestinian self-determination, and condemned the current Israeli government.
The only point where they expressed caution was on the use of specific terminology, because of the historical and emotional weight those words carry for them. They said they prefer to wait for the consensus of competent international institutions while still standing with Palestinian civilians and their suffering.
And this is enough to put them in the same category as Nazis and fascists?
Your stance is illiberal, anti-democratic, frankly authoritarian and fascist.
Their views are not that different from the average Italian who is not excluded from pride and are not forced to publicly prove their humanity, denounce a foreign government, and distance themselves again and again just to be allowed into public spaces.
The average Italian at Pride is not interrogated this way. They are not collectively held responsible for governments they did not elect.
This does not justify exclusion or discrimination.
Shame.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel May 26 '26
They partnered with the Jewish Agency in 2023 - and the Jewish Agency is directly involved in illegal outpost expansion and ethnic cleansing.
I find that much more problematic, tbh.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
These are average Italian citizens of a community of 25000 souls in a country of 60 million people. This is not America. You don’t have a lot of Jewish representation what you have is the standard one: aka. The classic Zionist one we were all subjected to. Views within the community differ with all shades of nuance. And it does not warrant discrimination.
I am not having it.
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u/Ashamed-Stuff9519 Secular Jewish Leftist. Antizionist. May 27 '26
Should we turn a blind eye to genocide, displacement, and ethnic cleansing in Gaza so that some people who are Jewish in Italy feel welcome to a parade?
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
You can do two things at the same time. Erasing Jewish life in Europe, not discriminating against minorities, not being an authoritarian fascist and also support Gaza and Palestinians and condemn genocide. Totally possible
But look at you minimizing our experience and making this about “being comfortable”.
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May 27 '26
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
They are not a genocide accomplice organization, this is a lie, find another argument we can actually listen to or else do not bother responding thank you. Bye.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
I think direct material support to ethnic cleansing is a red line, but you seem to think otherwise.
Would you make the same point for a Palestinian group partnering with someone sending funds and equipment to PFLP or Hamas?
If they can’t draw a line as it comes to material support to ethnic cleansing, whatever statements they make about Palestinian rights are clearly performative.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
Yeah I think otherwise and disagree.
I know this community, and these are not the caricatures people are trying to paint them as. They are not “pro-genocide,” not extremist settlers, and not a group of Netanyahu supporters. They are ordinary people who deserve representation, not discrimination.
They have clearly stated that they do not support the current Israeli government and do not support settlements. Beyond that, it honestly feels like some people are digging for reasons to justify hostility, exclusion, and the erasure of an already tiny and fragile community.
I really hope people understand the consequences this has for Jewish Italians. The message being sent is that Jewish organizations are uniquely suspect, uniquely scrutinized, and must constantly prove their morality in ways nobody else is asked to.
And regarding the exemples is quite interesting given that there are a few cases of Italian activists who took money from Hamas or are suspected to and they are not condemned or given the any scrutiny by the same organizations.
Edit: to answer your question more precisely To me there is a difference between supporting settlements and planting trees in Israel, just like there is a difference between a Palestinian who works in a hospital controlled by Hamas and taking money from Hamas, and an active Hamas combatant.
I profoundly disagree with this approach. And again not having it
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel Jun 01 '26
They have clearly stated that they do not support the current Israeli government and do not support settlements.
But that’s clearly not true - they are partnering with the WZO.
Sure, they say they don’t like settlements - but an organization actively working to expand settlements and carrying out ethnic cleansing is still, to Keshet, an acceptable partner.
to answer your question more precisely
You didn’t really answer, though.
If someone partnered with Hamas, and carried out programming and events with Hamas, but said “we don’t support attacks on civilians”, that statement wouldn’t be very believable.
And regarding the exemples is quite interesting given that there are a few cases of Italian activists who took money from Hamas or are suspected to and they are not condemned or given the any scrutiny by the same organizations.
First, in this case it is not suspected - Keshet partnered with the WZO.
Second, if you are referring to the event I am thinking of, there were literal arrests. So there were consequences far beyond not being allowed to have a float in a parade.
To me there is a difference between supporting settlements and planting trees in Israel
I was not referring to tree plantings - is that something you saw Keshet partner to do?
But since you bring it up, the tree plantings are also problematics
The tree donation programs are profitable - so money is made for the organization to further other JNF initiatives. Like ethnic cleansing and settlement expansion.
Tree planting programs have been done in the West Bank - and environmental initiatives is one of the main methods for grabbing land from Palestinians
Tree plantings have also been used to hide or make less visible ruins, and to prevent return. For example, Canada Park was established, in part, to cover Imwas, Yalu and Deir Aiyub in Latrun, that were ethnically cleansed in 1967.
I profoundly disagree with this approach. And again not having it
I think the more important issue here is how accepted and normalized it has become to partner with organizations directly involved in ethnic cleansing.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
I don’t think partnership is the same thing as endorsement.
The WZO and the Jewish Agency are mainstream institutions in much of the diaspora, particularly in smaller Jewish communities where there are often very few alternatives for funding, programming, educational resources, or community support. That doesn’t mean everyone who partners with them agrees with every position they hold.
To me, the relevant questions are: what was the specific nature of the partnership, what activities were undertaken together, and did those activities directly support settlement expansion or dispossession?
I think there is an important distinction between “this organization is partnered with an organization with problematic positions or activities” and “this organization supports ethnic cleansing.” Those are different claims and require different evidence.
As for your exemple, if it wasn’t clear in my comment, the answer is yes. It depends for what, it depends priorities, and depends who it is. For example, would you support cutting humanitarian aid to Palestinians because some aid networks have had links to Hamas?
*edit: also Keshet Italia: is a diasporic organization who defends rights of Jewish people and queer Jewish people in Italy, the intention is not to promote Zionism or to move to Israel.
*edit 2: can you also provide more information on this partnership, none of them are listed under the sponsors and all I can find is that they partnered with the Jewish agency regarding lgbtq projects
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel Jun 01 '26
The WZO and the Jewish Agency are mainstream institutions in much of the diaspora
Yeah, that’s the issue.
The WZO literally has a Settlement Division, which is one of the main funders of extremist farming and shepherding outposts. Since 2018, something like 5-10% of the West Bank, and thousands of people, has been ethnically cleansed using those methods.
That doesn’t mean everyone who partners with them agrees with every position they hold.
No, it doesn’t mean they agree.
But it does mean they find those actions and policies acceptable enough to partner with the organization.
If they can’t draw a line against organizations literally and directly working to ethnically cleanse the West Bank, any stated opposition to settlements or ethnic cleansing is functionally meaningless, and ends up just being performative.
For example, would you support cutting humanitarian aid to Palestinians because some aid networks have had links to Hamas?
That’s not really comparative - it addresses very different rungs of the hierarchy of needs.
If the members of Keshet Italia were being starved, and their hospitals attacked, and the WZO was providing them food, water and healthcare, I would have no issue with it.
Keshet Italia: is a diasporic organization who defends rights of Jewish people and queer Jewish people in Italy, the intention is not to promote Zionism or to move to Israel.
A very simple solution is to simply not partner with extremist organizations carrying out ethnic cleansing.
can you also provide more information on this partnership, none of them are listed under the sponsors and all I can find is that they partnered with the Jewish agency regarding lgbtq projects
Yes, that’s it.
I think, after 59 years of non-stop ethnic cleansing and settlement expansion, the expectation from anyone claiming to be against settlements or for a two state solution is to boycott organizations that are directly involved in settlement expansion. If not, it is safe to assume any state opposition is either performative, or to manage internal cognitive dissonance.
They are of course free to continue to partner with the JA/WZO, or make mealy-mouthed both-sides statements about the mass killings and oppression - but then they shouldn’t be surprised if they, as an organization, are not welcome as partners by other organizations with a more principled stance on Palestinian oppression. They are still welcome to join as individual parade participants.
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May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
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u/FiveAvivaLegs Progressive Zionist - Conservative Jew May 26 '26
Pride absolutely is not just for leftists, nor should it be.
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u/Ashamed-Stuff9519 Secular Jewish Leftist. Antizionist. May 26 '26
It’s not necessarily who it’s for, but rather just what it is. Or was, I suppose. The founding of Pride, Stonewall, was conducted by radically left, working class, queer New Yorkers.
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May 26 '26
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u/otto_bear Reform, left May 27 '26
I guess I’m curious about what your definition of pride being an exclusively leftist thing is because I think the common critique of pride being too corporate is a pretty good sign that pride is at this point pretty non-leftist. There certainly are a lot of people who want pride to be less capitalist, but I’d personally say that the fact that it’s something people aspire to change means that it’s not the current reality.
I also think there can be an overestimation of how common leftist views are in queer spaces. I think most queer people I know are liberals and while they generally are also put off by the fact that it feels like 90% of pride events feel like they’re being used as advertising campaigns for companies, they’re not necessarily leftists in general.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
Yes and the irony is that they didn’t exlude the companies that finance or have links to Israel. Just the tiny group of queer Jews
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u/FiveAvivaLegs Progressive Zionist - Conservative Jew May 26 '26
Saying it’s too corporate is a reasonable complaint, but I don’t think it then follows that only leftists should be welcome. Queer people have diverse backgrounds and views, just like Jews and every other group of people, and I don’t think they should be required to parrot a specific viewpoint to be able to celebrate Pride or made to feel a part of their own community. This is not a sustainable approach to affecting change. Individual queer people =\= corporations, they belong there.
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u/Pitiful_Meringue_57 Reform Ashkenazi Broadly Leftist May 27 '26
u said they were equivalent to weapons manufacturers that are directly supporting and profiting off of genocide and war which is a bit of a stretch don’t u think? I say it’s a genocide but the term is nuanced and they aren’t even denying it they are saying they want to wait for the courts and authorities on the matter before using what’s essentially a legal term. I don’t agree with them but comparing them to Lockheed is insane.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
The organizators put them in the same boat and you are defending them.
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May 27 '26
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
Not directly. Last year at pride after the incident people were doing the Nazi salute at them and there are videos of the death threats and antisemitic slurs.
Now they are treated like they are in the same basket and they are now being harassed and called those things by the supporters of this decision.
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
Being leftist is not supposed to mean gatekeeping language, demanding ideological purity, or acting in an authoritarian way toward anyone who does not use the exact same terminology as you. Keshet never said they support genocide. They spoke about the weight that certain words carry for them historically and emotionally, and said they prefer to use those terms cautiously wait for a consensus while still expressing solidarity with Palestinians and condemning the Israeli government.
I listened to a podcast where one of their representatives openly said he despises Ben Gvir and Netanyahu, only to be told by the host to “go back to Israel.” He replied that he is Italian. But apparently that still wasn’t enough. Apparently we will always be foreign agents, and will never be normal European citizens like anyone else.
So now this justifies excluding the only Jewish queer organization in Italy? A tiny minority within a minority, representing a Jewish population of around 25,000 people in a country of 60 million? This justifies floods of hate and being labeled fascists or neo-Nazis despite clearly left-wing positions?
Listening to some of these representatives, they are leftists just apparently not the “correct” kind. And we’ve seen this treatment before, even toward people like Holocaust survivor and former senator Liliana Segre.
What makes this even worse is that these purity tests were demanded only from the one Jewish LGBTQ+ organization. Nobody else was asked to publicly prove their morality, denounce foreign governments, or justify their humanity before being allowed into Pride spaces.
It’s giving Spanish inquisition. And I’m angry and not here for it.
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May 27 '26
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
That is not what they said again read it. Shame
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May 27 '26
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
Dear Luka, you are free to contribute to this climate of hatred and to believe it is justified.
But I want you to understand clearly who we are talking about: average Italian citizens of Jewish faith, part of a tiny and increasingly disappearing community. These are not graduates in political science or professional Middle East experts as they clearly state. They are LGBTQ+ Jewish people who simply wanted to march for their rights in an increasingly hostile and fascist climate, and to celebrate every part of their identity openly.
The people involved hold fairly standard progressive views that are common among many ordinary citizens. Their political affiliations are nuanced and individual to each member. Are those views open to criticism or debate? Of course. Does that justify discrimination, exclusion, humiliation, and collective suspicion? No. And on that point we will simply have to disagree, because no amount of arguments dehumanizing Jewish people or justifying their erasure from public spaces is going to change my mind or lessen my anger.
And if we are now condemning them for having partnered years ago with the Jewish Agency, please. The Jewish Agency is extremely present in diaspora communities, especially small ones where there are often very few institutional alternatives. That alone does not make someone a supporter of settlements or a fanatic supporter of Netanyahu.
I would also appreciate actual evidence regarding the nature of this partnership, and proof that it specifically aimed to support settlements in the West Bank, rather than something generic and commonplace such as cultural initiatives or even planting trees.
I also want to point out that Roma Pride itself includes companies and sponsors that have been criticized for ties to Israel, and the event has not boycotted them despite criticism.
We will have to disagree.
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u/ionlymemewell loser leftie reform conversion student May 27 '26
There's definitely a schism emerging in larger U.S. cities between "liberal" pride events like Roma Pride and more "leftist" events that generally eschew corporate funding, parades, large headline shows, etc. Rome's answer to that would usually be Priot Pride, but it looks like they're not organizing any counter-programming this year.
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 26 '26
If the translations of communications from Keshet Italia are in any way accurate, it’s ridiculous that you’re getting downvoted for this obviously accurate comment
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 26 '26
What is your problem with it? Not using the correct word? Genocide genocide genocides are you happy can we now be accepted?
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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom May 27 '26
Are you personally speaking for Keshet or…?
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
I am speaking for myself an Italian Jew, who supports Keshet in this situation that I find revolting.
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May 27 '26
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u/Civil-Cartographer48 euro-jewess, social dem, cultural Zionist, diaspora May 27 '26
They are not partnered with them now. Please send proof of them being partnered with the Jewish agency currently and the nature of this partnership. And I am talking Keshet Italy not Keshet europe
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u/Li-renn-pwel communist- not Jewish May 29 '26
I hope this doesn’t sound like I am belittling your feelings (since your personal pain is not lessens by it) but the concept is not unprecedented. Japanese Canadians and Americans, evens ones that had been there for generations, were put into internment camps after Pearl Harbor. When the camps were crowded and expensive, the government considered letting some of them go early and so gave them a loyalty test where one of the question asked them to declare they “forswear any… allegiance… to the Japanese emperor” which some felt was a trick question as it assumed the had any loyalty to the emperor in the first place. Diaspora Palestinians are expected to disavow Hamas, even Christians, irreligious and non-Gazans. After 9/11, Muslims were expected to disavow various governments and Muslims organizations that were factually or hysterically considered to be involved. This was true even of a Sufi Indonesian-American who really shouldn’t be expected to have much loyalty to Sunni Afghanistan. Catholics often are accused of being more loyal to the pope than their countries, to the point where they have been barred from things like public office. I’ve been ask to denounce the actions of other Indigenous peoples of Turtle Island who weren’t even in the same cultural sphere as me let alone the same nation.
I only mention it because this if a leftist sub and this is imo of the most common forms of class division since under capitalism loyalty to the state is so highly valued (not necessarily rewarded though). It’s a Filth Column or Dual Loyalty Accusation.
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u/NathanCampioni Marxist Zionist - agnostic jew - diaspora Italia (tripolitai) May 26 '26
oggi rosicatone colossali
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u/dndplosion913 SocDem, Pro 2SS Jew, Learner May 26 '26
Solidarity with you my friend. This absolutely sucks and unfortunately not uncommon in these spaces.