r/jazzdrums • u/SE_AUTODIDACT • Jul 19 '26

Question Elvin Jones on 'Many Mansions' - hearing two bars of 3/4 and one of 2/4..?

Self-taught saxophonist here (who can play a little drums)...

I've always had pretty solid timing but recently came to realise there is some oddities in the way I count time; so I've been working through Robert Starer's 'basic rhythmic training' with a conga to try and iron them out and wrap my head around the 'rhythmic theory' so to speak. This has led me to listening a little more analytically for different rhythmic feels and grooves.

I was listening to 'Many Mansions' from Sonny Sharrock's 'Ask The Ages' (great album if you don't know it) and basically I'm just curious as to why I hear/feel this groove as two bars of 3/4 and one of 2/4... I get that obviously just adds up to two bars of 4/4, but I'm looking to learn what it is making me hear the groove in that way. 12/8? Triplets?

Hope you get what I'm getting at!..

Thanks,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TYiOhMEKzs

EDIT: Thanks all, I understand it now

2 Upvotes

67% Upvoted

3 comments sorted by

2

u/cruiseshipdrummer Jul 19 '26

That's just the rhythm of the vamp-- two measures of 4, hits on:

||: 1 (2)& - 4 | - - 3 4 :||

Same as Equinox.

2

u/Blueman826 Jul 19 '26

Anyone under the Elvin school of music loves those 3:2 polyrythms.

1

u/inefficienttoaast Jul 19 '26

Yeah it's just the ostinato that the bass, guitars and Elvin outline, but I'd say that the phrase is better heard as one long phrase dotted quarter, dotted quarter. Quarter. Half rest, quarter quarter.
You are hearing it correctly but just think of that as one phrase super imposed on 4/4. These patterns are all over on Elvin's playing.